Australian Politics Forum - a referendum we actually need

Frank

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 47470
Gender: male

Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #240 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 11:59am

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 11:53am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 11:16am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 11:08am:

I stopped listening at: "Yes the gender pay gap exists, but..."

Stopped listening, eh! And you think you can take on Peterson!

Petereson: "Men...need to be told...men need help..."

Yes, I can take on Peterson.

Common prosperity, one-party state and government knows best, print mo' money, jobs for all, refuted above, that not debate, 50 years ago is ancient history, freedom is horrible, Marxism is wonderful....ZZZzzzz......

Back to top

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 13100
Gender: male

Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #241 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 12:00pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 11:50am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 9:48pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 9:43pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 9:39pm:

mothra wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 9:35pm:

So yes. You paraphrased.

And i'm not interested in debating her performance. I have repeatedly said she gave a poor interview. But if you want your question answered, perhaps you can examine your own motives? After all, you keep doing precisely what you are accusing her of having done.

So she put it to Peterson that it was his words, not hers.

As you are putting it to me that the words you have ascribed to her are her words, not yours.

Oh this is ridiculous.

You can read the transcript.

Newman: So it seems to a lot of women that they still being dominated and excluded, to quote your words back to you.

All this after you have moved on from:

"First he said there was no gender pay gap ... then he went on to detail factors that cause the pay gap.

You can't make this stuff up."

I haven't listened to the rest of the video; he is already exposed as a fraud..even IF he explained the gap is mult-faceted.

As for women being oppressed by men, that is a simplistic analysis. The battle of the sexes?... too much collaberation with the enemy...

The context (comes with listening to the dialogue).

Newman: So it seems to a lot of women that they're still being dominated and excluded, to quote your words back to you.

Newman has raised the issue of the pay gap earlier. She now claims that women are still being dominated and excluded [did she mean caused by men? What else could she mean - by other women? Climate change?]. Newman also suggests that Peterson said as much in one of his books - which he didn't.

Peterson: It does seem that way. But multivariate analysis of the pay gap indicate that it doesn’t exist.

Note that Peterson acknowledges the pay gap, but is now answering Newman's augmented statement about it which includes, what Newman believes, is the reason for it - that men dominate and exclude women.

Newman: But that’s not true, is it? That 9 percent pay gap, that’s a gap between median hourly earnings between men and women. That exists.

Now Newman returns to the pay gap alone, having established that she believes there is a pay gap and men cause it.

Peterson: Yes. But there’s multiple reasons for that. One of them is gender, but that’s not the only reason.

Peterson is responding to Newman's claim - that there is a pay gap and men cause it.

Back to top

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 13100
Gender: male

Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #242 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 12:08pm

Frank wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 11:59am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 11:53am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 11:16am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 11:08am:

I stopped listening at: "Yes the gender pay gap exists, but..."

Stopped listening, eh! And you think you can take on Peterson!

Petereson: "Men...need to be told...men need help..."

Yes, I can take on Peterson.

Common prosperity, one-party state and government knows best, print mo' money, jobs for all, refuted above, that not debate, 50 years ago is ancient history, freedom is horrible, Marxism is wonderful....ZZZzzzz......

You forgot TGD's, 'a disgrace to God and the creation.'

Now selling on ebay for 50 bucks as part of the 'Marxists say the Darnedest Things' series.

Back to top

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics 

Posts: 13091
Gender: male

Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #243 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 12:21pm

Frank wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 9:40am:

Newman: So it seems to a lot of women that they are still being dominated and excluded, to quote your words back to you.

OK... so male domination - a subjective experience of 'a lot of women'- is a complex issue.

Quote:

Peterson: It does seem that way. But multivariate analysis of the pay gap indicate that it doesn’t exist

Newman: But that’s not true, is it? That 9 percent pay gap, that’s a gap between median hourly earnings between men and women. That exists.

Peterson: Yes. But there’s multiple reasons for that. One of them is gender, but that’s not the only reason. If you’re a social scientist worth your salt, you never do a univariate analysis. You say women in aggregate are paid less than men. Okay. Well then we break its down by age; we break it down by occupation; we break it down by interest; we break it down by personality.

https://scrapsfromtheloft.com/psychology/jordan-petersons-channel-4-interview-ca
thy-newman-transcript/

The first 'it' doesn't exist refers to the 'it' which is in red.

ah ha...so frank claims "it" refers to the subjective experience of oppression, not the the gender pay gap on average.

Quote:

What does exist is the 9% gap (which was not the 'it' in the first line). That gap exists BUT NOT because of the 'it' but due to multiple reasons, only one of it is gender and NONE of it is the 'it', the domination and exclusion of women.

Ok, so both you and Peterson admit the gender pay gap on average exists, even if Newman is barking up the wrong tree (ie, "male oppression").

So what are you going to do about the gender pay gap...and the black gap....?

Back to top

« Last Edit: Sep 13^th, 2022 at 12:31pm by thegreatdivide »

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics 

Posts: 13091
Gender: male

Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #244 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 12:30pm

Frank wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 11:59am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 11:53am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 11:16am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 11:08am:

I stopped listening at: "Yes the gender pay gap exists, but..."

Stopped listening, eh! And you think you can take on Peterson!

Petereson: "Men...need to be told...men need help..."

Yes, I can take on Peterson.

Common prosperity, one-party state and government knows best, print mo' money, jobs for all, refuted above, that not debate, 50 years ago is ancient history, freedom is horrible, Marxism is wonderful....ZZZzzzz......

Yes I would demolish Peterson in minutes, just as Meister can't confront Cicero's paradox; "for all to be free, all must submit to rule of law.

Peterson of course seems blissfully unaware of the effect of unconscious instinct on conscious thought, in humans - egregious, given his background in psychiatry.

Back to top

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 13100
Gender: male

Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #245 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 12:35pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 12:21pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 9:40am:

Newman: So it seems to a lot of women that they are still being dominated and excluded, to quote your words back to you.

OK... so male domination - a subjective experience of 'a lot of women'- is a complex issue.

Yes. Newman uses weasel words expecting them to land a punch (deception, much?), to swing the argument towards the pay gap being caused by men, without committing herself to having to quote reliable data that would have proved her augmented point. If she'd had reliable data, she'd have used it here. She didn't. Her lust for blood had addled her mind.

Back to top

IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 47470
Gender: male

Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #246 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 12:37pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 12:21pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 9:40am:

Newman: So it seems to a lot of women that they are still being dominated and excluded, to quote your words back to you.

OK... so male domination - a subjective experience of 'a lot of women'- is a complex issue.

Quote:

Peterson: It does seem that way. But multivariate analysis of the pay gap indicate that it doesn’t exist.

Newman: But that’s not true, is it? That 9 percent pay gap, that’s a gap between median hourly earnings between men and women. That exists.

Peterson: Yes. But there’s multiple reasons for that. One of them is gender, but that’s not the only reason. If you’re a social scientist worth your salt, you never do a univariate analysis. You say women in aggregate are paid less than men. Okay. Well then we break its down by age; we break it down by occupation; we break it down by interest; we break it down by personality.

https://scrapsfromtheloft.com/psychology/jordan-petersons-channel-4-interview-ca
thy-newman-transcript/

The first 'it' doesn't exist refers to the 'it' which is in red. [/quote]

ah ha...so frank claims "it" refers to the subjective experience of oppression, not the the gender pay gap on average.

Quote:

What does exist is the 9% gap (which was not the 'it' in the first line). That gap exists BUT NOT because of the 'it' but due to multiple reasons, only one of it is gender and NONE of it is the 'it', the domination and exclusion of women.

Ok, so both you and Peterson admit the gender pay gap on average exists, even if Newman is barking up the wrong tree (ie, "male oppression").

So what are you going to do about the gender pay gap...and the black gap....?
[/quote]

No, Great Sloppy Muddle, the pay gap exists but is not due solely or even mainly to gender, so it is not a 'gender pay gap'. Do try to be a bit discerning and pay attention to what is actually said and not always rush to parrot your tired cliches and slogans.

All sorts of other pay gaps exist, none of them are due to a single variable like gender.

Back to top

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

Gnads

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 29863
Gender: male

Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #247 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 12:40pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 10:01am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 5:06pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 12^th, 2022 at 4:39pm:

Peterson's very first stupidity:

journo: " women earn less than men"

peterson: "no they dont"

journo: "The pay gap is 9 percent less on average"

peterson:Yes but there are multiple reasons for that..."

So he agreed there IS a pay gap..... contradicting his earlier statement....

That's not even close to the transcript.

Read it before you put words in his mouth.

https://scrapsfromtheloft.com/psychology/jordan-petersons-channel-4-interview-ca...

Read it? I listened to the video carefully.

Can you deny Peterson said: "YES, but....."?

Of course women CANNOT ever earn the same as men on average, because they have to take time off to bear and suckle babies.

One solution is to pay higher wages for child and age care workers, who are largely female.

They don't "have to" do any such thing. They are free to choose whether they do that or not.

Some employers pay maternity leave others not...

they also get around that by employing them as casuals/part timers where many benefits of a full time job are not applicable.

So the issue is not about a gender pay gap - because there isn't one.

It's all about choices that affect hours worked which equates to less earned.

You don't get paid for not being there/not working.

2nd highlight - why is that? Is that discriminatory/ an equal opportunity employer? Roll Eyes

Back to top

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 47470
Gender: male

Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #248 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 12:45pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 12:30pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 11:59am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 11:53am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 11:16am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 11:08am:

I stopped listening at: "Yes the gender pay gap exists, but..."

Stopped listening, eh! And you think you can take on Peterson!

Petereson: "Men...need to be told...men need help..."

Yes, I can take on Peterson.

Common prosperity, one-party state and government knows best, print mo' money, jobs for all, refuted above, that not debate, 50 years ago is ancient history, freedom is horrible, Marxism is wonderful....ZZZzzzz......

Yes I would demolish Peterson in minutes, just as Meister can't confront Cicero's paradox; "for all to be free, all must submit to rule of law.

Peterson of course seems blissfully unaware of the effect of unconscious instinct on conscious thought, in humans - egregious, given his background in psychiatry.

Psittacism is not 'demolishing', conceited little Marxoid.

And what do you base your incredibly, eyewateringly stupid and overweening statement about his being unaware, a Harvard and Toronto professor of psychology and a practicing therapist for 20 years, of such basic terms as instinct and thought, terms you probably just googled and so are new to you.

Back to top

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics 

Posts: 13091
Gender: male

Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #249 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 12:45pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 12:08pm:

You forgot TGD's, 'a disgrace to God and the creation.';/quote]

War IS a disgrace to God and the creation, not undestood by "man .. an imbecile earthworm; depository of truth, yet a sewer of uncertainty and error; pride and refuse of the universe" (Pascal)

[quote]Now selling on ebay for 50 bucks as part of the 'Marxists say the Darnedest Things' series.

"from each according to abilty, to each according to need " ... need, which is NOT 'equality of outcome' as asserted by conservative frauds. .

Back to top

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 13100
Gender: male

Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #250 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 12:50pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 10:01am:

Of course women CANNOT ever earn the same as men on average, because they have to take time off to bear and suckle babies.

I can intuit you haven't read the transcript nor listened to the dialogue.

Later on in the interview, Newman, in desperation, throws in the baby thing (who knows why - probably hoping Peterson would suggest it was a woman's duty to have children).

Newman: But why shouldn’t women have the right to choose not to have children or the right to choose those demanding careers?

Peterson: They do. They can, yeah, that’s fine.

Newman: But you’re saying that makes them unhappy, by and large.

Peterson: I’m saying that… No, I’m not saying that, and I actually haven’t said that so far in the program…

Back to top

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 13100
Gender: male

Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #251 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 12:53pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 12:45pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 12:08pm:

You forgot TGD's, 'a disgrace to God and the creation.';/quote]

War IS a disgrace to God and the creation, not undestood by "man .. an imbecile earthworm; depository of truth, yet a sewer of uncertainty and error; pride and refuse of the universe" (Pascal)

[quote]Now selling on ebay for 50 bucks as part of the 'Marxists say the Darnedest Things' series.

"from each according to abilty, to each according to need " ... need, which is NOT 'equality of outcome' as asserted by conservative frauds. .

Yes. I guess a CCP official needs a Lamborghini. A Chinese peasant in a rural village needs an ox and cart.

Back to top

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics 

Posts: 13091
Gender: male

Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #252 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 1:06pm

Frank wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 12:37pm:

the pay gap exists but is not due solely or even mainly to gender,

(note: edited format corrections in previous post)

"Not due solely", implying gender is ONE factor..

.which in part, by definition is
the gender pay gap (because women must bear and suckle babies ...and it exists...

Quote:

so it is not a 'gender pay gap'.

Of course it is, regardless of co-existing non-gender causes of the gap; ever heard of logic?

Quote:

Do try to be a bit discerning and pay attention to what is actually said and not always rush to parrot your tired cliches and slogans.

And yet you and peterson agree the gender pay gap exists...

Quote:

All sorts of other pay gaps exist, none of them are due to a single variable like gender.

Correct, but the GENDER pay gap also exists, which you and peterson both say exists.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Sep 13^th, 2022 at 1:22pm by thegreatdivide »

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics 

Posts: 13091
Gender: male

Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #253 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 1:11pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 12:53pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 12:45pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 12:08pm:

You forgot TGD's, 'a disgrace to God and the creation.';

War IS a disgrace to God and the creation, not undestood by "man .. an imbecile earthworm; depository of truth, yet a sewer of uncertainty and error; pride and refuse of the universe" (Pascal)

Quote:

Now selling on ebay for 50 bucks as part of the 'Marxists say the Darnedest Things' series.

"from each according to abilty, to each according to need " ... need, which is NOT 'equality of outcome' as asserted by conservative frauds. .

Yes. I guess a CCP official needs a Lamborghini. A Chinese peasant in a rural village needs an ox and cart.

a comment to be expected from a "freedom" war monger, and survival of the fittest "sewer of error" ...

Back to top

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 13100
Gender: male

Re: a referendum we actually need
Reply #254 - Sep 13^th, 2022 at 1:18pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 1:11pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 12:53pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 12:45pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 12:08pm:

You forgot TGD's, 'a disgrace to God and the creation.';

War IS a disgrace to God and the creation, not undestood by "man .. an imbecile earthworm; depository of truth, yet a sewer of uncertainty and error; pride and refuse of the universe" (Pascal)

Quote:

Now selling on ebay for 50 bucks as part of the 'Marxists say the Darnedest Things' series.

"from each according to abilty, to each according to need " ... need, which is NOT 'equality of outcome' as asserted by conservative frauds. .

Yes. I guess a CCP official needs a Lamborghini. A Chinese peasant in a rural village needs an ox and cart.

a comment to be expected from a "freedom" war monger ", and survival of the fittest " sewer of error" ...

In the CCP should it be a struggle between survival of the most entitled and survival of the politically fittest (i.e. in brutality and the capacity to drink high-proof alcohol)?

I'm looking forward to the bloodbath that will directly follow the collapse of the CCP as they eat each other while attempting to extricate themselves from the rubble.

Back to top

IP Logged