Australian Politics Forum - Solar Briefly Overtakes Coal in Australia?

AusGeoff

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Solar Briefly Overtakes Coal in Australia?
Aug 20^th, 2022 at 10:54pm

For about half an hour on Friday 19 August, the national energy market
caught a glimpse of what a renewables-powered future might look like.

Solar energy (purportedly) eclipsed coal as the lead source of power across
the energy market, which includes all states and territories except Western
Australia and the Northern Territory.

The milestone occurred around lunchtime, with solar making up roughly
40% of the market share and coal taking up 38%.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-20/solar-briefly-overtakes-coal-australia-nu...

I call bullshit on this claim. There is absolutely no way that Victoria was
powered solely by photovoltaic generation on that day. In middle winter!

The latest data shows that solar contributes around 1.3% of Victoria's daily
electricity generation. The Loy Yang and Yallourn coal-fired base-load stations
in South Gippsland together generate 72% of Victoria's electricity.

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Gnads

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Re: Solar Briefly Overtakes Coal in Australia?
Reply #1 - Aug 21^st, 2022 at 7:43am

AusGeoff wrote on Aug 20^th, 2022 at 10:54pm:

For about half an hour on Friday 19 August, the national energy market
caught a glimpse of what a renewables-powered future might look like.

Solar energy (purportedly) eclipsed coal as the lead source of power across
the energy market, which includes all states and territories except Western
Australia and the Northern Territory.

The milestone occurred around lunchtime, with solar making up roughly
40% of the market share and coal taking up 38%.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-20/solar-briefly-overtakes-coal-australia-nu...

I call bullshit on this claim. There is absolutely no way that Victoria was
powered solely by photovoltaic generation on that day. In middle winter!

The latest data shows that solar contributes around 1.3% of Victoria's daily
electricity generation. The Loy Yang and Yallourn coal-fired base-load stations
in South Gippsland together generate 72% of Victoria's electricity.

That's because it is bullshyte Geoff.

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Jovial Monk

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Re: Solar Briefly Overtakes Coal in Australia?
Reply #2 - Aug 21^st, 2022 at 8:04am

Quote:

The milestone occurred around lunchtime on Friday, with solar making up roughly 40 per cent of the market share and coal taking up 38 per cent.

At the time, wind was the third-largest source of energy, followed by hydro and gas.

What is unbelievable about it?

I don’t see anything about Victoria being powered solely from solar?

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Belgarion

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Re: Solar Briefly Overtakes Coal in Australia?
Reply #3 - Aug 21^st, 2022 at 11:21am

This bit say it all: He said the perfect conditions were lots of sun and relatively mild temperatures.

"This is just the first of many events like this," he said.

"Each sort of spring-ish period, what we have is a lot of sun in the sky and not a lot of demand.

So as long as the sun is shining, its warm and there is not a lot of demand, solar can supply 40% of the nation's electricity needs..Even if this claim were true, which I doubt, it shows just how ridiculous it is to depend on so called 'renewables' for our power.

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 44011 Gender:	Re: Solar Briefly Overtakes Coal in Australia? Reply #4 - Aug 21^st, 2022 at 11:50am When energy demand is down - lunch time, everyone has downed tools, sitting in the park eating their sandwiches.
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17224 Gender:	Re: Solar Briefly Overtakes Coal in Australia? Reply #5 - Aug 21^st, 2022 at 12:57pm So how many millions did it cost for that half hour? Multiply by 48 and you may have an answer as to cost. Edit: "Most of the power came from rooftop solar panels, rather than from large-scale solar farms" So the large scale solar farms may not be fit for purpose?
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Gnads

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Re: Solar Briefly Overtakes Coal in Australia?
Reply #6 - Aug 21^st, 2022 at 5:44pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 21^st, 2022 at 8:04am:

Quote:

The milestone occurred around lunchtime on Friday, with solar making up roughly 40 per cent of the market share and coal taking up 38 per cent.

At the time, wind was the third-largest source of energy, followed by hydro and gas.

What is unbelievable about it?

I don’t see anything about Victoria being powered solely from solar?

The whole claim .... it's a nonsense.

Anyone believing it has "nosense".

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AusGeoff

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Re: Solar Briefly Overtakes Coal in Australia?
Reply #7 - Aug 21^st, 2022 at 7:36pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 21^st, 2022 at 8:04am:

Quote:

The milestone occurred around lunchtime on Friday, with solar making up roughly 40 per cent of the market share and coal taking up 38 per cent.

At the time, wind was the third-largest source of energy, followed by hydro and gas.

What is unbelievable about it?

I don’t see anything about Victoria being powered solely from solar?

The report said all Australian states except Western Australia and the
Northern Territory, so presumably they meant Victoria was running on
solar for that half hour. Which is why I called that claim bullshit. I also
wonder what the baseload was at that time, and from which source (coal
presumably?) it was supplied from.

The major problem with current (pun there?) baseload is that wind and/or
solar cannot provide it—which is critical. They were also lucky that no load
shedding was necessitated during the half hour.

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Johnnie

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Re: Solar Briefly Overtakes Coal in Australia?
Reply #8 - Aug 21^st, 2022 at 8:06pm

AusGeoff wrote on Aug 21^st, 2022 at 7:36pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 21^st, 2022 at 8:04am:

Quote:

The milestone occurred around lunchtime on Friday, with solar making up roughly 40 per cent of the market share and coal taking up 38 per cent.

At the time, wind was the third-largest source of energy, followed by hydro and gas.

What is unbelievable about it?

I don’t see anything about Victoria being powered solely from solar?

The report said all Australian states except Western Australia and the
Northern Territory, so presumably they meant Victoria was running on
solar for that half hour. Which is why I called that claim bullshit. I also
wonder what the baseload was at that time, and from which source (coal
presumably?) it was supplied from.

The major problem with current (pun there?) baseload is that wind and/or
solar cannot provide it—which is critical. They were also lucky that no load
shedding was necessitated during the half hour.

It's not bullshit, its the grid.

SA runs on 66% renewables.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48816 At my desk.	Re: Solar Briefly Overtakes Coal in Australia? Reply #9 - Aug 21^st, 2022 at 8:10pm I think someone needs to explain to Geoff and Lee what a battery is.
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Jovial Monk

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Re: Solar Briefly Overtakes Coal in Australia?
Reply #10 - Aug 21^st, 2022 at 8:12pm

AusGeoff wrote on Aug 21^st, 2022 at 7:36pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 21^st, 2022 at 8:04am:

Quote:

The milestone occurred around lunchtime on Friday, with solar making up roughly 40 per cent of the market share and coal taking up 38 per cent.

At the time, wind was the third-largest source of energy, followed by hydro and gas.

What is unbelievable about it?

I don’t see anything about Victoria being powered solely from solar?

The report said all Australian states except Western Australia and the
Northern Territory, so presumably they meant Victoria was running on
solar for that half hour. Which is why I called that claim bullshit. I also
wonder what the baseload was at that time, and from which source (coal
presumably?) it was supplied from.

The major problem with current (pun there?) baseload is that wind and/or
solar cannot provide it—which is critical. They were also lucky that no load
shedding was necessitated during the half hour.

You made a wrong assumption.

They said the make up of sources was 40% solar, 38% coal. No mention of 100% solar as I said.

Read it again and you will see.

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 45884 Gender:	Re: Solar Briefly Overtakes Coal in Australia? Reply #11 - Aug 21^st, 2022 at 8:13pm Big Battery— 1. Evens out the output of the renewable source, windfarm etc 2. Keeps the grid frequency in acceptable ranges when a coal fired power station crashes off line.
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freediver

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Re: Solar Briefly Overtakes Coal in Australia?
Reply #12 - Aug 21^st, 2022 at 8:54pm

The idea that we need "baseload" is a complete furphy. Demand fluctuates wildly with the time of day, season etc. We have done our best to massage demand so it looks like a flat line, but only because that's what the supply looked like. Except of course when a large thermal power station goes offline unexpectedly. Then we get plunged into darkness. But that's OK, we soon realise it's not the end of the world. The power has just gone out, that's all.

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Bobby.

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Re: Solar Briefly Overtakes Coal in Australia?
Reply #13 - Aug 21^st, 2022 at 10:06pm

freediver wrote on Aug 21^st, 2022 at 8:54pm:

The idea that we need "baseload" is a complete furphy. Demand fluctuates wildly with the time of day, season etc. We have done our best to massage demand so it looks like a flat line, but only because that's what the supply looked like. Except of course when a large thermal power station goes offline unexpectedly. Then we get plunged into darkness. But that's OK, we soon realise it's not the end of the world. The power has just gone out, that's all.

Dear FD,
after a storm in an eastern suburb of Melbourne -
many trees fell over power lines -
there were 1000's of SES call outs and they couldn't cope.
The power went out for 3 days at some addresses.
Even the phone towers went out soon after -
so there was no communication possible if there was an emergency.

so -
no phone,
people couldn't turn on any lights,
they couldn't cook any food,
they couldn't watch TV,
they couldn't use their computers.
They had no hot water for showers or washing.
The couldn't do the laundry.
All the food in their fridges went off.

It was a very grim situation and I don't know if anyone died due
to being unable to call an ambulance.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17224 Gender:	Re: Solar Briefly Overtakes Coal in Australia? Reply #14 - Aug 21^st, 2022 at 10:08pm Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 21^st, 2022 at 8:13pm: Big Battery— 1. Evens out the output of the renewable source, windfarm etc 2. Keeps the grid frequency in acceptable ranges when a coal fired power station crashes off line. And doesn't [provide enough power for backup.
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