Australian Politics Forum - Solar Briefly Overtakes Coal in Australia?

freediver

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Re: Solar Briefly Overtakes Coal in Australia?
Reply #30 - Aug 23^rd, 2022 at 7:38am

Captain Caveman wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 10:11am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 9:22am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 8:50am:

I'm just not happy with being paid 5c a Kw to put power into the system, and then being charged 40c for it when I take it out.... and then being told that my contribution doesn't pay its way.

Well - phark them and their shareholders. I'm re-visiting the idea of getting batteries installed and even cutting off supply from outside.

The power companies have a good reason for that which
convinced the Govt. regulators.
A huge part of the cost of your electricity comes
from maintaining the network hardware e.g.
the power poles, transformers and transmission lines.
Why should you use that for free?

True, but that can all be done without privatising.
The problem with electricity is its essential.
Essential services should not be privatised.

Is food essential?

Where do people get this garbage from? The socialist alliance?

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Gnads

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Re: Solar Briefly Overtakes Coal in Australia?
Reply #31 - Aug 23^rd, 2022 at 7:42am

freediver wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2022 at 7:38am:

Captain Caveman wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 10:11am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 9:22am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 8:50am:

I'm just not happy with being paid 5c a Kw to put power into the system, and then being charged 40c for it when I take it out.... and then being told that my contribution doesn't pay its way.

Well - phark them and their shareholders. I'm re-visiting the idea of getting batteries installed and even cutting off supply from outside.

The power companies have a good reason for that which
convinced the Govt. regulators.
A huge part of the cost of your electricity comes
from maintaining the network hardware e.g.
the power poles, transformers and transmission lines.
Why should you use that for free?

True, but that can all be done without privatising.
The problem with electricity is its essential.
Essential services should not be privatised.

Is food essential?

Where do people get this garbage from? The socialist alliance?

Stupid question .... the statement was about electricity.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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freediver

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Posts: 48816
At my desk.

Re: Solar Briefly Overtakes Coal in Australia?
Reply #32 - Aug 23^rd, 2022 at 7:47am

Gnads wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 3:26pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 7:55am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 21^st, 2022 at 10:06pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 21^st, 2022 at 8:54pm:

The idea that we need "baseload" is a complete furphy. Demand fluctuates wildly with the time of day, season etc. We have done our best to massage demand so it looks like a flat line, but only because that's what the supply looked like. Except of course when a large thermal power station goes offline unexpectedly. Then we get plunged into darkness. But that's OK, we soon realise it's not the end of the world. The power has just gone out, that's all.

Dear FD,
after a storm in an eastern suburb of Melbourne -
many trees fell over power lines -
there were 1000's of SES call outs and they couldn't cope.
The power went out for 3 days at some addresses.
Even the phone towers went out soon after -
so there was no communication possible if there was an emergency.

so -
no phone,
people couldn't turn on any lights,
they couldn't cook any food,
they couldn't watch TV,
they couldn't use their computers.
They had no hot water for showers or washing.
The couldn't do the laundry.
All the food in their fridges went off.

It was a very grim situation and I don't know if anyone died due
to being unable to call an ambulance.

That is actually less likely to happen when we switch to renewables.

How is that? Going to knockdown all the power poles & make supply all underground?

Nevermind that even doing that makes the supply breakdown situation similar in times of flooding.

The system will be far less centralised with renewables. It will resemble more of a network than a tree structure. There will be a need for a lot of battery storage. Depending on the technology used, a lot of that storage can be in the city. Even electric vehicles can double as batteries, so if you loose power at your house, you can disconnect from the grid at the fuse box and run your fridge from your car.

So the grid will be far less susceptible to interruption caused by cutting a single line.

You make a whole lot of assumptions about how the grid "needs" to operate, but there is absolutely nothing necessary about it. It is merely a consequence of the inevitable centralisation associated with thermal power stations. If we transition to a supply that is not as prone to centralisation, a lot of the problems associated with that centralisation will disappear.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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freediver

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Posts: 48816
At my desk.

Re: Solar Briefly Overtakes Coal in Australia?
Reply #33 - Aug 23^rd, 2022 at 7:52am

Gnads wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2022 at 7:42am:

freediver wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2022 at 7:38am:

Captain Caveman wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 10:11am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 9:22am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 8:50am:

I'm just not happy with being paid 5c a Kw to put power into the system, and then being charged 40c for it when I take it out.... and then being told that my contribution doesn't pay its way.

Well - phark them and their shareholders. I'm re-visiting the idea of getting batteries installed and even cutting off supply from outside.

The power companies have a good reason for that which
convinced the Govt. regulators.
A huge part of the cost of your electricity comes
from maintaining the network hardware e.g.
the power poles, transformers and transmission lines.
Why should you use that for free?

True, but that can all be done without privatising.
The problem with electricity is its essential.
Essential services should not be privatised.

Is food essential?

Where do people get this garbage from? The socialist alliance?

Stupid question .... the statement was about electricity.

No, the statement is about economics. The economics of the economically illiterate. This is what you said:

Quote:

Essential services should not be privatised.

Do you think this is true by itself, or is it only true if you first pick and choose what industry to apply it to, based on whether the socialist alliance thinks it should be state run?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Gnads

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Posts: 29104
Gender: male

Re: Solar Briefly Overtakes Coal in Australia?
Reply #34 - Aug 23^rd, 2022 at 8:06am

freediver wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2022 at 7:47am:

Gnads wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 3:26pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 7:55am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 21^st, 2022 at 10:06pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 21^st, 2022 at 8:54pm:

The idea that we need "baseload" is a complete furphy. Demand fluctuates wildly with the time of day, season etc. We have done our best to massage demand so it looks like a flat line, but only because that's what the supply looked like. Except of course when a large thermal power station goes offline unexpectedly. Then we get plunged into darkness. But that's OK, we soon realise it's not the end of the world. The power has just gone out, that's all.

Dear FD,
after a storm in an eastern suburb of Melbourne -
many trees fell over power lines -
there were 1000's of SES call outs and they couldn't cope.
The power went out for 3 days at some addresses.
Even the phone towers went out soon after -
so there was no communication possible if there was an emergency.

so -
no phone,
people couldn't turn on any lights,
they couldn't cook any food,
they couldn't watch TV,
they couldn't use their computers.
They had no hot water for showers or washing.
The couldn't do the laundry.
All the food in their fridges went off.

It was a very grim situation and I don't know if anyone died due
to being unable to call an ambulance.

That is actually less likely to happen when we switch to renewables.

How is that? Going to knockdown all the power poles & make supply all underground?

Nevermind that even doing that makes the supply breakdown situation similar in times of flooding.

The system will be far less centralised with renewables. It will resemble more of a network than a tree structure. There will be a need for a lot of battery storage. Depending on the technology used, a lot of that storage can be in the city. Even electric vehicles can double as batteries, so if you loose power at your house, you can disconnect from the grid at the fuse box and run your fridge from your car.

So the grid will be far less susceptible to interruption caused by cutting a single line.

You make a whole lot of assumptions about how the grid "needs" to operate, but there is absolutely nothing necessary about it. It is merely a consequence of the inevitable centralisation associated with thermal power stations. If we transition to a supply that is not as prone to centralisation, a lot of the problems associated with that centralisation will disappear.

What BS ..... where are the current(what's left of them) Coal fired power stations?

They certainly aren't & never have been centralised.

Decentralisation was a thing pushed for most states & at one stage that's how QLD operated.

But as time went by & as more privatisation took hold .... all in the name of competition & so called cheaper prices.....

companies(even banks & railways) rationalised & moved majority operations into the major capitals of each state.

leaving token operations in a few regional centres.

So the "decentralisation" claim has in the main been all lip service.

Renewables operations are dependent on suitable locations for wind & more consistently available sunlight .... & they need to be closer to grid access or else be up for extensive costs of distance in putting in connection lines, whether they be underground or above ground transmission poles.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48816 At my desk.	Re: Solar Briefly Overtakes Coal in Australia? Reply #35 - Aug 23^rd, 2022 at 8:13am Quote: They certainly aren't & never have been centralised. Wow. That went right over your head. Centralised does not have to mean one.
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Gnads

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Australian Politics

Posts: 29104
Gender: male

Re: Solar Briefly Overtakes Coal in Australia?
Reply #36 - Aug 23^rd, 2022 at 8:33am

freediver wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2022 at 7:52am:

Gnads wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2022 at 7:42am:

freediver wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2022 at 7:38am:

Captain Caveman wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 10:11am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 9:22am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 8:50am:

I'm just not happy with being paid 5c a Kw to put power into the system, and then being charged 40c for it when I take it out.... and then being told that my contribution doesn't pay its way.

Well - phark them and their shareholders. I'm re-visiting the idea of getting batteries installed and even cutting off supply from outside.

The power companies have a good reason for that which
convinced the Govt. regulators.
A huge part of the cost of your electricity comes
from maintaining the network hardware e.g.
the power poles, transformers and transmission lines.
Why should you use that for free?

True, but that can all be done without privatising.
The problem with electricity is its essential.
Essential services should not be privatised.

Is food essential?

Where do people get this garbage from? The socialist alliance?

Stupid question .... the statement was about electricity.

No, the statement is about economics. The economics of the economically illiterate. This is what you said:

[highlight]Essential services should not be privatised.

Do you think this is true by itself, or is it only true if you first pick and choose what industry to apply it to, based on whether the socialist alliance thinks it should be state run?

No .... that's what Caveman said Roll Eyes

However I agree with him.

We as consumers have seen no benefit from its supposed reduction in prices because of competition.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Solar Briefly Overtakes Coal in Australia?
Reply #37 - Aug 23^rd, 2022 at 8:36am

freediver wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2022 at 7:52am:

Gnads wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2022 at 7:42am:

freediver wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2022 at 7:38am:

Captain Caveman wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 10:11am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 9:22am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 8:50am:

I'm just not happy with being paid 5c a Kw to put power into the system, and then being charged 40c for it when I take it out.... and then being told that my contribution doesn't pay its way.

Well - phark them and their shareholders. I'm re-visiting the idea of getting batteries installed and even cutting off supply from outside.

The power companies have a good reason for that which
convinced the Govt. regulators.
A huge part of the cost of your electricity comes
from maintaining the network hardware e.g.
the power poles, transformers and transmission lines.
Why should you use that for free?

True, but that can all be done without privatising.
The problem with electricity is its essential.
Essential services should not be privatised.

Is food essential?

Where do people get this garbage from? The socialist alliance?

Stupid question .... the statement was about electricity.

No, the statement is about economics. The economics of the economically illiterate. This is what you said:

Quote:

Essential services should not be privatised.

Do you think this is true by itself, or is it only true if you first pick and choose what industry to apply it to, based on whether the socialist alliance thinks it should be state run?

Of course you can pick and choose - food is optional in that people choose what they want to eat and some have different dietary requirements, so it is an open market. Certain things are only used by certain people. Power is always the same..... so again this morning - that is a false comparison - one from divide and one from you so far. Wait for the real doozies to get in from the overnight high....

Underlying to an economy and to each person in it services should never be opened to a New Robber Baron market style operation, which to date here, has clearly been a total failure.

So many issues to fix in a government of national repair..... essential services resumed; equality restored across the board; a fair go installed for everyone EQUALLY; land and home rights protected, including national parks held in trust for all the people; the list goes on...... and on ......

Maybe war will finally bring some of you to your senses..... start getting fit all you keyboard heroes.... you're gonna need it ....I'm already in the pipeline to go fill in a spot with the Guv..... no need to be that fit - I ain't running them hills...

So it's Grappler this, and Grappler that,
And Grappler git be'ind!
But it's please to walk in front,SIR,
When there's trouble in the wind...

And there's trouble in the wind, boys...
There's trouble in the wind.....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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