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Immigration (Read 54004 times)
thegreatdivide
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1530 - Oct 21st, 2024 at 6:57pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 21st, 2024 at 4:52pm:
Australia has always suffered a housing shortage.  In particular after WWII, there were significantly fewer houses than there were residents.  It wasn't until the 1970s that the housing industry caught up.  Pauline is just taking advantage (as she always does) of the situation to drive a wedge into the Australian psyche and you lot are falling for it, hook, line and sinker.  If Pauline offered a real alternative, she'd be PM but as usual, she doesn't have an idea in her empty head.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Brian, you have it back to front re housing in Oz: the Keynesian era (1945-1970s) had both lower homelessness and unemployment, than the post Thatcher neoliberal era (1980s to now).

Post WW2, governments adopted  Keynesian 'welfare state" principles based on deficit spending; the UK introduced the NHS, and Chifley ensured investment in public housing:

Australian housing crisis: We need a Ben Chifley

https://johnmenadue.com/australian-housing-crisis-we-need-a-ben-chifley/

Ben Chifley, the Minister of State for Post-War Construction in the Curtin Labor Government and later Prime Minister of Australia, established the Commonwealth Housing Commission.

Before WW2's end, Chifley  tasked the CHC to undertake an inquiry and report on two issues:

1. Present housing position in Australia, and

2. The housing requirements of Australia during the post-war period.

"According to its final report, the CHC advised the basis on which it approached its inquiries:

“We consider that a dwelling of good standard and equipment is not only the need but the right of every citizen – whether the dwelling is to be rented or purchased, no tenant or purchaser should be exploited by excessive profit”.


...exploitation as had been the norm, and is now again, which is always the case in private sector markets.

Even Menzies who  was elected in 1949, continued public Federal support for housing, though with an emphasis on private ownership; but Chifley and Menzies achieved housing for everyone rental or privately owned.

https://www.fresheconomicthinking.com/p/did-public-housing-create-the-australian

"In his earlier 1949 campaign speech, Menzies explained how he wanted people to own their own homes and be “little capitalists”, and he later showed he was willing to spend plenty from the federal government budget to make that happen.

Public support for private owning - a conservative twist...

Re your  assertion "Australia has always suffered a housing shortage:

(google)

In the 1950s and 1960s homelessness declined to the point that researchers were predicting its virtual disappearance in the 1970s. Instead, in the 1980s, homelessness increased rapidly and drastically changed in composition. The “old homeless” of the 1950s were mainly old men living in cheap hotels on skid rows.



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Bobby.
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1531 - Oct 21st, 2024 at 7:22pm
 
https://xyz.net.au/2024/10/andrew-bolt-notices-great-replacement-on-prime-time-t...

Andrew Bolt Highlights The Great Australian Replacement on Prime Time Television



By
David Hiscox -
October 21, 2024


Here is the full transcript (minus a brief cutaway):

“Today, proof that the Albanese government is destroying Australia. Destroying it almost literally by its crazy immigration intake. In fact it is replacing Australians with immigrants, as well as tearing down our national symbols, our traditions.

“Now this is not a conspiracy theory, you know, [speaking in a funny voice] The Great Replacement. It’s fact.

“Our latest fertility figures show Australian women have never had fewer babies per person, not in the history of modern Australia. Just 1.5 babies now per woman, and that means we’re not even having anywhere near enough babies to replace ourselves. For that you need just over two babies per woman.

“Yet as you know, our population is not shrinking, it’s actually exploding, our cities are crammed full of people. But that’s because this government is also giving us record numbers of immigrants, I mean crazy numbers, I mean, half a million immigrants a year right now. So, what we are seeing is fewer Australians who are actually born here, and many immigrants, many more of them, who were not.

“Now you might think, well, thank heavens for that, because we need to replace these Australians who aren’t breeding. But in fact that high immigration is a reason, might be a big reason, why Australians aren’t replacing themselves with babies. They’re linked.

“All those immigrants are all looking for somewhere to live, then you can see the result. I mean, housing has never in our lifetime been so unaffordable. And even the government admits that high housing prices is a reason Australian women are having fewer babies. And much later in life when they can finally afford them….

“And it’s not just the lack of cheap housing that’s causing Australians to have fewer babies, to not replace themselves. Australians are also getting poorer per person under this government. I mean, the high inflation, the high interest rates, the terrible productivity growth. And today the unemployment rate, it went down again to just 4.1%. And that is actually good news for some people. But it does mean that interest rates are going to stay high for longer, which is pain for a lot of people.

“And it all adds up to a baby drought, and to Australia being changed dramatically. And it’s not just that the proportion of Australians born here is plummeting, I mean, now just 70% of us. At the same time this government is helping to trash our history and Australia’s symbols.

“For instance it flies three flags, not just the Australian one but two race ones as well. It’s let 80 councils ban citizenship ceremonies on Australia Day out of shame of our past. It also seems that multiculturalism now means celebrating every culture but our own.

“And the result? Well you see it, Australia is changing in front of your eyes, and in ways that often seem shocking. Alien, dare I say.”
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1532 - Oct 21st, 2024 at 11:10pm
 
No at all - you simply do not understand that trade and the movement of goods and services and money across the world requires imbalances.... it's like tidal flow - the high tide in one area moves to fill the low tide in the other and vice versa...  one country shifts relatively higher  (remember that relative poverty thing that you missed entirely?) value money to another in return for goods... you concept of 'neo-conservative ideology' has nothing to do with it.... what it means is that ten dorruh from one rich country can support one workah one week..... middre man make mo' profit.... so the one workah one week make shirts to be shipped back to firs' countly- and arrival of cheapah shirt make movement within lich countly of goods and service and money..... then back to poor countly again go some of money .... support many workah on what support one workah in lich countly!!

Poor countly workah lich, lich countly workah lich - same-same but different numbah of dullah!!  compalative plosperity due to lack of balance.  Is no balance, dullah flom lich countly no come to poor countly - make shirt in lich countly instead!!

ONRY question you have - how much enough fo' middre man - not ideology you imagine all other addicted to!!
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1533 - Oct 22nd, 2024 at 1:47pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 21st, 2024 at 11:10pm:
No at all - you simply do not understand that trade and the movement of goods and services and money across the world requires imbalances....


By "imbalances",  I think you are referring to 'comparative advantage':

(google)

"Comparative advantage in an economic model is the advantage over others in producing a particular good".

Note: an economc model in neoclassical economics, which results in winners and losers, examples of the losers being  the 'first world rust belt', and third world countries saddled with crippling debt. 

Quote:
it's like tidal flow - the high tide in one area moves to fill the low tide in the other and vice versa...  one country shifts relatively higher  (remember that relative poverty thing that you missed entirely?) value money to another in return for goods... you concept of 'neo-conservative ideology' has nothing to do with it....


The current neo-classical (economic) orthodoxy, beloved  by free-marketeers,  is not "my concept", it's the current dogma directing national finance (according to low taxes and balanced budgets) and global trade under IMF neoclassical  trade rules - which Trump (and to a lesser extent the Dems) want to impede,  in order to MAGA.

So,  where is the "higher tide": in the West (NATO countries and allies) or China and the 'global south'?

Please explain.

Note: in the post-WW2 'globalization' era, up to the  explosion in China's  GDP (when it rapidly surpassed Japan),  the deployment of labour under the principle of comparitive advantage in different nations drove economic development via global trade.

But trade from your "imbalances"  worked too well in China's favour.....hence the US's 'decoupling' efforts.



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« Last Edit: Oct 22nd, 2024 at 1:54pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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SadKangaroo
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1534 - Oct 26th, 2024 at 11:54am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 21st, 2024 at 11:10pm:
No at all - you simply do not understand that trade and the movement of goods and services and money across the world requires imbalances.... it's like tidal flow - the high tide in one area moves to fill the low tide in the other and vice versa...  one country shifts relatively higher  (remember that relative poverty thing that you missed entirely?) value money to another in return for goods... you concept of 'neo-conservative ideology' has nothing to do with it.... what it means is that ten dorruh from one rich country can support one workah one week..... middre man make mo' profit.... so the one workah one week make shirts to be shipped back to firs' countly- and arrival of cheapah shirt make movement within lich countly of goods and service and money..... then back to poor countly again go some of money .... support many workah on what support one workah in lich countly!!

Poor countly workah lich, lich countly workah lich - same-same but different numbah of dullah!!  compalative plosperity due to lack of balance.  Is no balance, dullah flom lich countly no come to poor countly - make shirt in lich countly instead!!

ONRY question you have - how much enough fo' middre man - not ideology you imagine all other addicted to!!


You really can't help but be racist in nearly every thread you engage in can you...

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1535 - Oct 26th, 2024 at 10:31pm
 
Two States Down  ...  how now your fancy Apartheid, you racist?

76-81...... interesting use of statistics there to tell no lie.... for a change.

Who'd 've thunk the Abos would try to claim Roma and Maryborough and a few other towns all for themselves on freehold - force the old owners who bought and paid for their homes and businesses and farms and worked years to do so etc to pay rent....  wonder why the Queensland Labor government got the chop.....

Now - let's keep an eye on that spot..... should be interesting for you lot up there with all your fancy ideology.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1536 - Oct 27th, 2024 at 12:15pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 26th, 2024 at 10:31pm:
....  wonder why the Queensland Labor government got the chop.....


For the same reason Albo's popularity is falling like a stone: neoliberal governmetns - whether Labor or the Coalition -  can't deal with a cost of living crisis, so the incumbent gets tossed out by an electorate which also has no understanding of macro economics.

And faith in democracy keep falling.   

Quote:
Now - let's keep an eye on that spot..... should be interesting for you lot up there with all your fancy ideology.


One thing's sure: your 'personal responsibility' meme won't fix the macro-economic dysfunction which is destroying community cohesion and faith in democracy.

As expected,  you ignored #1533.
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1537 - Oct 27th, 2024 at 2:56pm
 
absolutely none of us have any idea what you're on about great divide
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1538 - Oct 27th, 2024 at 3:27pm
 
When you're up to your armpits as a result of calculated government policy, and are dealing daily with apartheid, division endless and Division By Race specifically, and daily striving to guide the blind sheep away from the cliffs... it's a little hard to get right on to resolving your rhetoric - let alone the macro-economic concepts and misguided assumptions you make about others, and what you like to imagine they think and follow to suit your own Messiah Complex.

First let's deal with Apartheid, and mass immigration of non-congenial groups some of which are decidedly dangerous, and get this country re-united against itself in the way it should be - over issues and not through some mental deficiencies and insufficiencies of many homegrowns and imports who somehow manage far too much of a say in government ideas.

The Queensland Land Grab Act, of course, is a shocker and must be struck down - no duty, compulsion or even common courtesy rule to even openly and freely 'consult' with the communities directly concerned.

The Ultimate Neo-Fascism of the 'Left' right there - on a par with Stalin communising all the farms in Ukraine and starving millions to death.... and yet these people reckon they are sane.

Queenslanders!  Secede NOW and avoid the rush... you can name your own states - those are drawn on existing LGA lines for ease of amalgamation of councils into states etc .. the names I offered are just suggestions....
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« Last Edit: Oct 27th, 2024 at 3:33pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1539 - Oct 28th, 2024 at 12:32pm
 
JC Denton wrote on Oct 27th, 2024 at 2:56pm:
absolutely none of us have any idea what you're on about great divide


Admittedly, understanding  issues re comparative advantage and trade, macroeconomics, and neoclassical orthodoxy, requires knowledge beyond managing your own household budget.



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thegreatdivide
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1540 - Oct 28th, 2024 at 1:08pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 27th, 2024 at 3:27pm:
When you're up to your armpits as a result of calculated government policy, and are dealing daily with apartheid, division endless and Division By Race specifically, and daily striving to guide the blind sheep away from the cliffs... it's a little hard to get right on to resolving your rhetoric - let alone the macro-economic concepts and misguided assumptions you make about others, and what you like to imagine they think and follow to suit your own Messiah Complex.


https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1645944963/990#996

From sadness to wellbeing: call to rewire the economy

"The cost of living has gone up so astronomically, energy is costing more - and that's not because of renewables, even though a lot of people would like to convince you that is it.

She said the newest generation were making less than their parents, and moving back in with them - including her 30-year-old daughter.

"That's what they're talking about - no, something's not quite right, my quality of life is going down," Ms Dixson-Declève said.

"What's wrong? Is it our politicians, is it our economy, the environment, what is it that's making us feel this way?"


....

Even billionaire Dana White, speaking at a rousing pro-Trump NYC rally yesterday, said Americans " can't afford food" (though he certainly can...).

So yes, forget diversionary tactics re race; macroeconomic dysfunction is where the problem of failing government lays, whether under a "Left"  or "Right" government. 

And as for "misguided assumptions you make about others" - that's YOUR forte: eg "people want welfare" rather than above-poverty participation in the economy. 

No "Messial Complex", but  a call for common decency. 

Quote:
First let's deal with Apartheid,


Irrelevant to the Queensland result: cost of living and youth crime were the causes of Labor's defeat. 

Quote:
and mass immigration of non-congenial groups some of which are decidedly dangerous, and get this country re-united against itself in the way it should be - over issues and not through some mental deficiencies and insufficiencies of many homegrowns and imports who somehow manage far too much of a say in government ideas.


Macro economic dysfunction causing failed states and  unwanted immigration - yes, very relevant. . 

Quote:
The Queensland Land Grab Act, of course, is a shocker and must be struck down - no duty, compulsion or even common courtesy rule to even openly and freely 'consult' with the communities directly concerned.

The Ultimate Neo-Fascism of the 'Left' right there - on a par with Stalin communising all the farms in Ukraine and starving millions to death.... and yet these people reckon they are sane.

Queenslanders!  Secede NOW and avoid the rush... you can name your own states - those are drawn on existing LGA lines for ease of amalgamation of councils into states etc .. the names I offered are just suggestions....


Like I said, a side show. Re the crime problem in Queensland (and Oz)

(google)

Youth crime is often a symptom of deeper social issues, and can be caused by a variety of factors, including:
Socioeconomic factors: Poverty, unemployment, single parent families, and crowded dwellings
Family influences: Parental neglect, a family history of criminal activity, and child abuse
Peer pressure: Gang involvement and the desire for social acceptance


Nothing to do with "Apartheid", except in the minds of those who think adoption of black culture will solve the above issues. 
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1541 - Nov 11th, 2024 at 2:18pm
 
Immigration , cost of living and the “ voice “ will be the three big issues next federal election.

Albos government has failed in all three.
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Thomas A. Edison said as early as in 1931, “I’d put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don’t have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that.”
 
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1542 - Nov 11th, 2024 at 4:05pm
 
...
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
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Brian Ross
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1543 - Nov 21st, 2024 at 12:04pm
 
Can Australia actually have a sensible debate about immigration? With the likes of Grappler, Bobby, Soren, Yadda and Dave, doubtful...   Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1544 - Nov 21st, 2024 at 12:11pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 21st, 2024 at 12:04pm:
Can Australia actually have a sensible debate about immigration? With the likes of Grappler, Bobby, Soren, Yadda and Dave, doubtful...   Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Subheading in the Tingle article:

Both sides are culpable for the mess



Accusations of wacism are almost instant in any discussion about immigration, in every Western country.
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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
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