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Renaissamce mathematicians (Read 3398 times)
Jovial Monk
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Re: Renaissamce mathematicians
Reply #15 - Sep 8th, 2022 at 10:49am
 
Yes, please post the solution.

I have a niggling feeling I am missing a clue re the “rational numbers” thing.
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John_Taverner
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Re: Renaissamce mathematicians
Reply #16 - Sep 8th, 2022 at 1:06pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 8th, 2022 at 10:49am:
Yes, please post the solution.

I have a niggling feeling I am missing a clue re the “rational numbers” thing.


A rational number is any whole number or any number that can be expressed as a fraction, so 14/67 is a rational number, whereas 14.1/67 is not. A Rational Number can be made by dividing an integer by an integer.

The square root of minus 1 or √(−1) is a very useful imaginary number, but not a rational number. The square root of 2 is not a rational number because it can't be expressed as a fraction.
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« Last Edit: Sep 8th, 2022 at 1:15pm by John_Taverner »  
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Re: Renaissance mathematicians
Reply #17 - Sep 8th, 2022 at 1:20pm
 
John_Taverner wrote on Sep 6th, 2022 at 10:33am:
Frank wrote on Sep 4th, 2022 at 11:22am:
Freedom, love,  wisdom.  Tongue

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Nice, but you can't design a microwave oven with those three alone.



In foxholes nobody is cooking with microwaves.
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Re: Renaissamce mathematicians
Reply #18 - Sep 8th, 2022 at 4:29pm
 
John_Taverner wrote on Sep 8th, 2022 at 8:24am:
Ok, I'll post the solution on Saturday if  anyone is still interested...


Yes please... I've filled a lined A5 pad with substitutions LOL.


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John_Taverner
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Re: Renaissance mathematicians
Reply #19 - Sep 10th, 2022 at 9:07pm
 
OK, here is the solution:

a = 41/12
b = 49/12
c =  31/12


This is the very crude method  I used:

I set up a spreadsheet with a row from 1 to 1000.
in the second row I used (A1/12)^2 and filled up to 1000
In the third row, I used B 1+5 and filled
In the fourth row, I used B1+10 and filled

Then in row 5 and 6, I used something like:
=IF(ISERROR(MATCH(C1,B:B, 0)), "", "Match on row " & MATCH(A1,B:B, 0))

I also used conditional formatting to colour it red.

So, I'm looking for instances where B1+ 5 and B1+10 both exist in the row.

I could also have used nested loops to do the same thing using a small BASIC program.

Fibonacci must have had a more elegant mathematical way of getting to the solution though.

To get the spreadsheet to work, I had to multiply the values by the square of the denominator first to obtain whole numbers. Spreadsheets find it difficult to compare infinitely repeating numbers.

I have an incredible respect for these Renaissance mathematicians.
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« Last Edit: Sep 10th, 2022 at 9:15pm by John_Taverner »  
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Re: Renaissamce mathematicians
Reply #20 - Sep 11th, 2022 at 7:06pm
 
I did not expect that studying a childhood discipline would lead me to wonder about divine matters, but the possibility of a divine entity is threaded throughout mathematics, which, in its essence, so far as I can tell, is a mystical pursuit, an attempt to claim territory and define objects seen only in the minds of people doing mathematics. Why do I care about abstract possibilities and especially about God, when I have no idea what such a thing might be? A concept? An actual entity? Something hidden but accessible, or forever out of reach? Something once present and now gone? Something that ancient people appear to have experienced at close hand?

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/how-mathematics-changed-me
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Re: Renaissance mathematicians
Reply #21 - Sep 11th, 2022 at 7:10pm
 
John_Taverner wrote on Sep 10th, 2022 at 9:07pm:
OK, here is the solution:

a = 41/12
b = 49/12
c =  31/12


This is the very crude method  I used:

I set up a spreadsheet with a row from 1 to 1000.
in the second row I used (A1/12)^2 and filled up to 1000
In the third row, I used B 1+5 and filled
In the fourth row, I used B1+10 and filled

Then in row 5 and 6, I used something like:
=IF(ISERROR(MATCH(C1,B:B, 0)), "", "Match on row " & MATCH(A1,B:B, 0))

I also used conditional formatting to colour it red.

So, I'm looking for instances where B1+ 5 and B1+10 both exist in the row.

I could also have used nested loops to do the same thing using a small BASIC program.

Fibonacci must have had a more elegant mathematical way of getting to the solution though.

To get the spreadsheet to work, I had to multiply the values by the square of the denominator first to obtain whole numbers. Spreadsheets find it difficult to compare infinitely repeating numbers.

I have an incredible respect for these Renaissance mathematicians.



That's not a mathematical solution -
it's an iterative solution.
I suspected it was a trick question.


Bobby,
Quote:
I think there's a trick as normally 3 unknowns
require 3 equations and there are only 2 equations.



Also - polynomials normally have complex roots.
They are seen in a mathematical solution.
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John_Taverner
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Re: Renaissance mathematicians
Reply #22 - Sep 12th, 2022 at 4:47am
 
Bobby. wrote on Sep 11th, 2022 at 7:10pm:
That's not a mathematical solution -
it's an iterative solution.
I suspected it was a trick question.


Bobby,
Quote:
I think there's a trick as normally 3 unknowns
require 3 equations and there are only 2 equations.



Also - polynomials normally have complex roots.
They are seen in a mathematical solution.


Nevertheless it’s a unique solution. There is obviously a more elegant solution possible. Nobody, including myself came up with that method, but the result would be the same. My method could be described as brute force.


No, Bobby. It wasn’t  a trick question. A mathematical problem posed to Fibonacci in 1202 was a trick question? Give me strength! How pusillanimous can you get?


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« Last Edit: Sep 12th, 2022 at 5:55am by John_Taverner »  
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Re: Renaissance mathematicians
Reply #23 - Sep 12th, 2022 at 5:10am
 
Frank wrote on Sep 11th, 2022 at 7:06pm:
I did not expect that studying a childhood discipline would lead me to wonder about divine matters, but the possibility of a divine entity is threaded throughout mathematics, which, in its essence, so far as I can tell, is a mystical pursuit, an attempt to claim territory and define objects seen only in the minds of people doing mathematics. Why do I care about abstract possibilities and especially about God, when I have no idea what such a thing might be? A concept? An actual entity? Something hidden but accessible, or forever out of reach? Something once present and now gone? Something that ancient people appear to have experienced at close hand?

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/how-mathematics-changed-me


In this case, if you substitute the values given into the original equations, blind Freddy can see that the solution is valid. It’s about as mystical as a lump of cheese.

However, I think along the same lines as the quotation (apart from the claiming territory crap) and I agree that there is a spark of the divine in mathematics. In a basic sense, that “divine” equates with intelligent life. Whether you actually call it divine or otherwise is not really relevant. As soon as you define something with a word, the word itself changes the nature of that something:

If you represent existence with a totally calm, totally clear pond and you throw a small pebble into that pond, you create ripples which make the pond easier to discern, but changes the nature of the pond. That pebble is the word and the person who threw it, the observer.

Going further, the universe has an innately complex mathematical foundation. Is it a “divine” foundation? Whatever you call it, it’s beautiful and awe inspiring.

( and yes, I get up early. It’s part of growing old)
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« Last Edit: Sep 12th, 2022 at 5:41am by John_Taverner »  
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Re: Renaissance mathematicians
Reply #24 - Sep 12th, 2022 at 5:47am
 
Quote:
The German mathematician Georg Cantor, the inventor of set theory, in the late nineteenth century, wrote that what surpasses all, the infinite set, was “the single, completely individual unity in which everything is included, which includes ‘the Absolute,’ incomprehensible to the human understanding. This is the ‘Actus Purissimus,’ which by many is called ‘God.’ ”


The final paragraph of that New Yorker article.
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« Last Edit: Sep 12th, 2022 at 6:31am by John_Taverner »  
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Re: Renaissance mathematicians
Reply #25 - Sep 16th, 2022 at 8:11pm
 
John_Taverner wrote on Sep 12th, 2022 at 4:47am:
Bobby. wrote on Sep 11th, 2022 at 7:10pm:
That's not a mathematical solution -
it's an iterative solution.
I suspected it was a trick question.


Bobby,
Quote:
I think there's a trick as normally 3 unknowns
require 3 equations and there are only 2 equations.



Also - polynomials normally have complex roots.
They are seen in a mathematical solution.


Nevertheless it’s a unique solution. There is obviously a more elegant solution possible. Nobody, including myself came up with that method, but the result would be the same. My method could be described as brute force.

No, Bobby. It wasn’t  a trick question. A mathematical problem posed to Fibonacci in 1202 was a trick question? Give me strength! How pusillanimous can you get?




Nevertheless - if you don't understand what I wrote
then you're a mathematical dunce.
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John_Taverner
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Re: Renaissamce mathematicians
Reply #26 - Sep 16th, 2022 at 8:50pm
 
No. I understood perfectly.  You explained the method you used in order to fail to solve it.
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Re: Renaissance mathematicians
Reply #27 - Sep 17th, 2022 at 5:52pm
 
John_Taverner wrote on Sep 12th, 2022 at 5:10am:
Going further, the universe has an innately complex mathematical foundation. Is it a “divine” foundation? Whatever you call it, it’s beautiful and awe inspiring.

( and yes, I get up early. It’s part of growing old)


So who are YOU calling 'old man', then?

"By the way, logarithmically you are half way between the Universe and an atom."
(40 mins 20 secs.)



Dawkins's argument is that if HE were god he wouldn't do it this way.


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John_Taverner
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Re: Renaissance mathematicians
Reply #28 - Sep 17th, 2022 at 6:00pm
 
Frank wrote on Sep 17th, 2022 at 5:52pm:
John_Taverner wrote on Sep 12th, 2022 at 5:10am:
Going further, the universe has an innately complex mathematical foundation. Is it a “divine” foundation? Whatever you call it, it’s beautiful and awe inspiring.

( and yes, I get up early. It’s part of growing old)


So who are YOU calling 'old man', then?






Did I really say that?  It's a hangover from Amateur Radio.  Grin

I avoid Dawkins and Hitchens. They are too evangelical for my taste.
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Frank
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Re: Renaissance mathematicians
Reply #29 - Sep 17th, 2022 at 6:11pm
 
John_Taverner wrote on Sep 17th, 2022 at 6:00pm:
Frank wrote on Sep 17th, 2022 at 5:52pm:
John_Taverner wrote on Sep 12th, 2022 at 5:10am:
Going further, the universe has an innately complex mathematical foundation. Is it a “divine” foundation? Whatever you call it, it’s beautiful and awe inspiring.

( and yes, I get up early. It’s part of growing old)


So who are YOU calling 'old man', then?






Did I really say that?  It's a hangover from Amateur Radio.  Grin

I avoid Dawkins and Hitchens. They are too evangelical for my taste.



Lennox is after my own heart although my convictions are a lot weaker than his. He does make it clear, as does Dawkins despite himself, that god is NOT a scientific question (like so many other, lesser things aren't).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVEuQg_Mglw
55.20 esp 55.55

It is a delight to to listen to him and he brings the best out of Dawkins who cannot talk down to Lennox.


Today's word: paradigm.


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« Last Edit: Sep 17th, 2022 at 6:21pm by Frank »  

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