Australian Politics Forum - Time for a republic.

Bobby.

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #15 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 2:04pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 1:52pm:

The Australian Choice Model

The Australian Choice Model will allow every State and Territory Parliament to nominate one candidate for election to be our Head of State. The Federal Parliament will be able to nominate up to three. We will then hold a national election for Australians to decide which candidate should be Head of State - a vote for all of us.

The Australian Choice Model ensures the role of Head of State is ceremonial in nature, with limited powers to safeguard and maintain the constitutional order and resolve political gridlock.

It would save a lot of money compared to a national election
if the job of Governor General was advertised like any another job -
that candidate to publish a manifesto and answer questions -
and the upper and lower houses of parliament were brought together and
each member given 1 vote to decide who wins the job.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17246 Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #16 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 2:06pm greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 1:52pm: The Australian Choice Model will allow every State and Territory Parliament to nominate one candidate for election to be our Head of State The infallibility of Politicians.
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freediver

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #17 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 2:49pm

From the other thread:

freediver wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 2:45pm:

That is the model quoted in the OP. They appear to think that if they make the model complicated and circuitous enough, people will think it is a good idea. The powers they want to give the HOS appear to be similar to the GG, yet despite it's complexity it fails the most fundamental requirement - a HOS that is somewhat detached from the regular political machinations. Our current model achieves this. The proposed model is a complicated version of getting the voting public to choose between a small number of Labor and Liberal stooges. With a lot of wishful thinking and arm waving, the republicans would have us believe that the elected stooge would act impartially.

It is basically the same model, but without the key advantage that the monarch provides. It's like they got a bunch of school students to invent something in an afternoon session. It lacks both originality and comprehension of the real issues.

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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10760 armidale Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #18 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 2:53pm Charles actually was rather fond of the GG caper, what. Damned fine show. This young Harry the hairy would be tops as GG. Vote for the best, get what you see.
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 135950 Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #19 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 3:31pm Currently, the only way to become Australia's Head of State is to be born into a certain family (on the other side of the planet) and to be a certain religion. Anyone who thinks that is acceptable in our secular sovereign nation is not a real Australian.
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freediver

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #20 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 3:32pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 3:31pm:

Currently, the only way to become Australia's Head of State is to be born into a certain family (on the other side of the planet) and to be a certain religion.

Anyone who thinks that is acceptable in our secular sovereign nation is not a real Australian.

Perhaps you should come up with a better alternative instead of whining.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Dnarever

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #21 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 3:33pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 1:52pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 1:37pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 12:32pm:

To keep the royals is the same as saying that there's something wrong with us
that we can't cope without an anachronistic, outdated system from
1000 years ago that has privilege by birth and not merit as the core of its belief.
It's saying that we're too stupid to elect our own representatives
and govern ourselves.

It's time to become a republic.
Now - who would we have as the equivalent of our Governor General?
How would we decide?
Would we vote as the Americans do for their president?

We wouldn't accept just any wording for a new constitution.
The problem would be to elect someone honest enough
to be our governor general.
I don't like the idea as per now of the Prime Minister deciding for us -
and then both of them having the power to sack each other.

We had an example of an outrageous abuse of power that
Scott Morrison was made a minister of 5 portfolios
in such secrecy that not even his own ministers knew -
let alone the public.
That must have been because the Governor General
was in fear of losing his job if he didn't agree?
That is something you'd expect to find in a
banana republic or a 3rd world country.
It's totally unacceptable.

All it says Bobby, is that no-one has proposed a model that we think is better. Why is the republic movement unable to understand this simple concept? People will not vote for a republic merely because they dislike the monarchy. There has to be something worthwhile for them to vote for, not just against. No amount of this pointless blather can make up for the republic movement's inability to come up with the goods.

The Australian Choice Model

The Australian Choice Model will allow every State and Territory Parliament to nominate one candidate for election to be our Head of State. The Federal Parliament will be able to nominate up to three. We will then hold a national election for Australians to decide which candidate should be Head of State - a vote for all of us.

The Australian Choice Model ensures the role of Head of State is ceremonial in nature, with limited powers to safeguard and maintain the constitutional order and resolve political gridlock.

Quote:

role of Head of State is ceremonial in nature

So the aim is for a claytons republic.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #22 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 3:39pm

Dnarever wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 3:33pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 1:52pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 1:37pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 12:32pm:

To keep the royals is the same as saying that there's something wrong with us
that we can't cope without an anachronistic, outdated system from
1000 years ago that has privilege by birth and not merit as the core of its belief.
It's saying that we're too stupid to elect our own representatives
and govern ourselves.

It's time to become a republic.
Now - who would we have as the equivalent of our Governor General?
How would we decide?
Would we vote as the Americans do for their president?

We wouldn't accept just any wording for a new constitution.
The problem would be to elect someone honest enough
to be our governor general.
I don't like the idea as per now of the Prime Minister deciding for us -
and then both of them having the power to sack each other.

We had an example of an outrageous abuse of power that
Scott Morrison was made a minister of 5 portfolios
in such secrecy that not even his own ministers knew -
let alone the public.
That must have been because the Governor General
was in fear of losing his job if he didn't agree?
That is something you'd expect to find in a
banana republic or a 3rd world country.
It's totally unacceptable.

All it says Bobby, is that no-one has proposed a model that we think is better. Why is the republic movement unable to understand this simple concept? People will not vote for a republic merely because they dislike the monarchy. There has to be something worthwhile for them to vote for, not just against. No amount of this pointless blather can make up for the republic movement's inability to come up with the goods.

The Australian Choice Model

The Australian Choice Model will allow every State and Territory Parliament to nominate one candidate for election to be our Head of State. The Federal Parliament will be able to nominate up to three. We will then hold a national election for Australians to decide which candidate should be Head of State - a vote for all of us.

The Australian Choice Model ensures the role of Head of State is ceremonial in nature, with limited powers to safeguard and maintain the constitutional order and resolve political gridlock.

Quote:

role of Head of State is ceremonial in nature

So the aim is for a claytons republic.

Our current HOS is ceremonial in nature.

And, the only way to become Australia's Head of State is to be born into a certain family (on the other side of the planet) and to be a certain religion.

You cannot be Australia's HOS unless you are Protestant Anglican.

I don't know how any reasonable person can find that acceptable.

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Frank

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #23 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 3:52pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 3:31pm:

Currently, the only way to become Australia's Head of State is to be born into a certain family (on the other side of the planet) and to be a certain religion.

Anyone who thinks that is acceptable in our secular sovereign nation is not a real Australian.

Here we go, no argument, no reasoning - just manipulative emotional blackmail. In every other context you would ridicule claims of 'real Australia' but you deploy it shamelessly for your own stupid, Bbwianesque purposes.

The very best thing about our current arrangement is that it is absolutely apolitical AND cannot be politicised. That the person of head of state is randomly allocated by birth into a particular family with a long tradition of providing the heads of state - but with no chance of ever having any political power or even say - an essential quality in a Westminster parliamentary system - is priceless. It cannot be bettered, not by politicians choosing the person nor by the whole electorate choosing. No Republican model can deliver this essential quality.

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Fuzzball Gold Member Offline Posts: 6381 Australia Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #24 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:03pm The People's Republic of Orsralia.............. El Presidenta.........Benito Hillbonese.......the most intelligent person Orstralia has to offer............ An ideal end to a once respected nation......
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freediver

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Posts: 48822
At my desk.

Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #25 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:18pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 3:39pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 3:33pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 1:52pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 1:37pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 12:32pm:

To keep the royals is the same as saying that there's something wrong with us
that we can't cope without an anachronistic, outdated system from
1000 years ago that has privilege by birth and not merit as the core of its belief.
It's saying that we're too stupid to elect our own representatives
and govern ourselves.

It's time to become a republic.
Now - who would we have as the equivalent of our Governor General?
How would we decide?
Would we vote as the Americans do for their president?

We wouldn't accept just any wording for a new constitution.
The problem would be to elect someone honest enough
to be our governor general.
I don't like the idea as per now of the Prime Minister deciding for us -
and then both of them having the power to sack each other.

We had an example of an outrageous abuse of power that
Scott Morrison was made a minister of 5 portfolios
in such secrecy that not even his own ministers knew -
let alone the public.
That must have been because the Governor General
was in fear of losing his job if he didn't agree?
That is something you'd expect to find in a
banana republic or a 3rd world country.
It's totally unacceptable.

All it says Bobby, is that no-one has proposed a model that we think is better. Why is the republic movement unable to understand this simple concept? People will not vote for a republic merely because they dislike the monarchy. There has to be something worthwhile for them to vote for, not just against. No amount of this pointless blather can make up for the republic movement's inability to come up with the goods.

The Australian Choice Model

The Australian Choice Model will allow every State and Territory Parliament to nominate one candidate for election to be our Head of State. The Federal Parliament will be able to nominate up to three. We will then hold a national election for Australians to decide which candidate should be Head of State - a vote for all of us.

The Australian Choice Model ensures the role of Head of State is ceremonial in nature, with limited powers to safeguard and maintain the constitutional order and resolve political gridlock.

Quote:

role of Head of State is ceremonial in nature

So the aim is for a claytons republic.

Our current HOS is ceremonial in nature.

And, the only way to become Australia's Head of State is to be born into a certain family (on the other side of the planet) and to be a certain religion.

You cannot be Australia's HOS unless you are Protestant Anglican.

I don't know how any reasonable person can find that acceptable.

Perhaps you should come up with a better alternative instead of just whining about it.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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greggerypeccary

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Australian Politics

Posts: 135950
Gender: male

Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #26 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:30pm

freediver wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:18pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 3:39pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 3:33pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 1:52pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 1:37pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 12:32pm:

To keep the royals is the same as saying that there's something wrong with us
that we can't cope without an anachronistic, outdated system from
1000 years ago that has privilege by birth and not merit as the core of its belief.
It's saying that we're too stupid to elect our own representatives
and govern ourselves.

It's time to become a republic.
Now - who would we have as the equivalent of our Governor General?
How would we decide?
Would we vote as the Americans do for their president?

We wouldn't accept just any wording for a new constitution.
The problem would be to elect someone honest enough
to be our governor general.
I don't like the idea as per now of the Prime Minister deciding for us -
and then both of them having the power to sack each other.

We had an example of an outrageous abuse of power that
Scott Morrison was made a minister of 5 portfolios
in such secrecy that not even his own ministers knew -
let alone the public.
That must have been because the Governor General
was in fear of losing his job if he didn't agree?
That is something you'd expect to find in a
banana republic or a 3rd world country.
It's totally unacceptable.

All it says Bobby, is that no-one has proposed a model that we think is better. Why is the republic movement unable to understand this simple concept? People will not vote for a republic merely because they dislike the monarchy. There has to be something worthwhile for them to vote for, not just against. No amount of this pointless blather can make up for the republic movement's inability to come up with the goods.

The Australian Choice Model

The Australian Choice Model will allow every State and Territory Parliament to nominate one candidate for election to be our Head of State. The Federal Parliament will be able to nominate up to three. We will then hold a national election for Australians to decide which candidate should be Head of State - a vote for all of us.

The Australian Choice Model ensures the role of Head of State is ceremonial in nature, with limited powers to safeguard and maintain the constitutional order and resolve political gridlock.

Quote:

role of Head of State is ceremonial in nature

So the aim is for a claytons republic.

Our current HOS is ceremonial in nature.

And, the only way to become Australia's Head of State is to be born into a certain family (on the other side of the planet) and to be a certain religion.

You cannot be Australia's HOS unless you are Protestant Anglican.

I don't know how any reasonable person can find that acceptable.

Perhaps you should come up with a better alternative instead of just whining about it.

Why would that be my responsibility?

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48822 At my desk.	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #27 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:32pm My bad. You are now in charge of pointless whining. Continue.
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greggerypeccary

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Australian Politics

Posts: 135950
Gender: male

Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #28 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:34pm

Frank wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 3:52pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 3:31pm:

Currently, the only way to become Australia's Head of State is to be born into a certain family (on the other side of the planet) and to be a certain religion.

Anyone who thinks that is acceptable in our secular sovereign nation is not a real Australian.

Here we go, no argument, no reasoning -

My rock solid argument is, as a secular country we should not have a HOS who must be Protestant Anglican.

Wouldn't you agree?

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Frank

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Australian Politics

Posts: 44070
Gender: male

Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #29 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:41pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:30pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:18pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 3:39pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 3:33pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 1:52pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 1:37pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 12:32pm:

To keep the royals is the same as saying that there's something wrong with us
that we can't cope without an anachronistic, outdated system from
1000 years ago that has privilege by birth and not merit as the core of its belief.
It's saying that we're too stupid to elect our own representatives
and govern ourselves.

It's time to become a republic.
Now - who would we have as the equivalent of our Governor General?
How would we decide?
Would we vote as the Americans do for their president?

We wouldn't accept just any wording for a new constitution.
The problem would be to elect someone honest enough
to be our governor general.
I don't like the idea as per now of the Prime Minister deciding for us -
and then both of them having the power to sack each other.

We had an example of an outrageous abuse of power that
Scott Morrison was made a minister of 5 portfolios
in such secrecy that not even his own ministers knew -
let alone the public.
That must have been because the Governor General
was in fear of losing his job if he didn't agree?
That is something you'd expect to find in a
banana republic or a 3rd world country.
It's totally unacceptable.

All it says Bobby, is that no-one has proposed a model that we think is better. Why is the republic movement unable to understand this simple concept? People will not vote for a republic merely because they dislike the monarchy. There has to be something worthwhile for them to vote for, not just against. No amount of this pointless blather can make up for the republic movement's inability to come up with the goods.

The Australian Choice Model

The Australian Choice Model will allow every State and Territory Parliament to nominate one candidate for election to be our Head of State. The Federal Parliament will be able to nominate up to three. We will then hold a national election for Australians to decide which candidate should be Head of State - a vote for all of us.

The Australian Choice Model ensures the role of Head of State is ceremonial in nature, with limited powers to safeguard and maintain the constitutional order and resolve political gridlock.

Quote:

role of Head of State is ceremonial in nature

So the aim is for a claytons republic.

Our current HOS is ceremonial in nature.

And, the only way to become Australia's Head of State is to be born into a certain family (on the other side of the planet) and to be a certain religion.

You cannot be Australia's HOS unless you are Protestant Anglican.

I don't know how any reasonable person can find that acceptable.

Perhaps you should come up with a better alternative instead of just whining about it.

Why would that be my responsibility?

Because you think (if think is the word I want in your case) the current arrangement is not satisfactory, Andy Pipkin.

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Poll
Question: Do you want royalty banished from our political system?
* This poll has now closed *
Yes 15 (48.4%) No 16 (51.6%) Total votes: 31 « Created by: Bobby. on: Sep 11^th, 2022 at 5:03pm »