Australian Politics Forum - Time for a republic.

whiteknight Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7992 melbourne Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #345 - Sep 16^th, 2022 at 9:32am Well said Bobby, yes many good points. Time for a Republic.
Back to top	IP Logged

Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 102278 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #346 - Sep 16^th, 2022 at 9:37am whiteknight wrote on Sep 16^th, 2022 at 9:32am: Well said Bobby, yes many good points. Time for a Republic. Yes sir Crook, we just need to find one honest person to be our head of state.
Back to top	IP Logged

Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 102278 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #347 - Sep 16^th, 2022 at 9:37am flip
Back to top	IP Logged

Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 102278 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #348 - Sep 16^th, 2022 at 9:38am flip
Back to top	IP Logged

MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11554 Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #349 - Sep 16^th, 2022 at 12:23pm Is the poll on this thread an indicator of the general public's ambivalence, I wonder.
Back to top	IP Logged

Captain Nemo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9767 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #350 - Sep 16^th, 2022 at 12:54pm
Back to top	The 2025 election could be a shocker. IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 44070
Gender: male

Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #351 - Sep 16^th, 2022 at 2:06pm

Bobby. wrote on Sep 15^th, 2022 at 11:40pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 15^th, 2022 at 11:29pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 15^th, 2022 at 11:07pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 15^th, 2022 at 11:04pm:

Captain Nemo wrote on Sep 15^th, 2022 at 10:47pm:

Running about 50-50 on this poll .... other polls out in the wider community are running about 60-40 to retain the Monarchy.

I reckon the Republican movement has a long time to go before any real headway is made.

The reasons given for this change seems to be a scatter gun approach everyone who wants to go to a republic has their own differing reasons. There is no sensible consistent logical narrative, its just a mess.

And then the problems really shine out when you get to the process if there is one. Then there are the scantly detailed model(s), naming conventions, rules, risks and costs.

It's a terrible to thing to argue that we can only have
a successful system based on nonsense about magical swords
and self given titles of importance from an entitled family in the UK.

No what we have is what we have warts and all it works great.

The point is justifying a change. It should not be as difficult as it is made to seem. Here for instance we have close to 350 posts and nobody has made the slightest impact in this area.

Not one single convincing post laying out a compelling positive argument. To this point nobody has got past step 1.

I made many good points. Cry

None of them constitutional improvements. Cry

Back to top

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11554 Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #352 - Sep 16^th, 2022 at 2:23pm Captain Nemo wrote on Sep 16^th, 2022 at 12:54pm: []https://i.imgur.com/VYutVGn.jpg[] Keneally, Fitzsimons and Turnbull walk into the Bar of Indifference... You would have thought one of them would have seen it.
Back to top	IP Logged

Captain Nemo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9767 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #353 - Sep 16^th, 2022 at 2:49pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 16^th, 2022 at 2:23pm: Captain Nemo wrote on Sep 16^th, 2022 at 12:54pm: []https://i.imgur.com/VYutVGn.jpg[] Keneally, Fitzsimons and Turnbull walk into the Bar of Indifference... You would have thought one of them would have seen it.
Back to top	The 2025 election could be a shocker. IP Logged

Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 102278 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #354 - Sep 16^th, 2022 at 3:39pm He's been pussy whipped to do what Meghan tells him.
Back to top	IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 58007
Here
Gender: male

Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #355 - Sep 16^th, 2022 at 3:47pm

Bobby. wrote on Sep 15^th, 2022 at 11:40pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 15^th, 2022 at 11:29pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 15^th, 2022 at 11:07pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 15^th, 2022 at 11:04pm:

Captain Nemo wrote on Sep 15^th, 2022 at 10:47pm:

Running about 50-50 on this poll .... other polls out in the wider community are running about 60-40 to retain the Monarchy.

I reckon the Republican movement has a long time to go before any real headway is made.

The reasons given for this change seems to be a scatter gun approach everyone who wants to go to a republic has their own differing reasons. There is no sensible consistent logical narrative, its just a mess.

And then the problems really shine out when you get to the process if there is one. Then there are the scantly detailed model(s), naming conventions, rules, risks and costs.

It's a terrible to thing to argue that we can only have
a successful system based on nonsense about magical swords
and self given titles of importance from an entitled family in the UK.

No what we have is what we have warts and all it works great.

The point is justifying a change. It should not be as difficult as it is made to seem. Here for instance we have close to 350 posts and nobody has made the slightest impact in this area.

Not one single convincing post laying out a compelling positive argument. To this point nobody has got past step 1.

I made many good points. Cry

Hey Bobby I went back and re read all your posts there is nothing that lays out a solid positive argument to support a change, in fact there isn't even a weak case for it.

Back to top

IP Logged

Bobby.

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 102278
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #356 - Sep 16^th, 2022 at 3:53pm

Dnarever wrote on Sep 16^th, 2022 at 3:47pm:

Hey Bobby I went back and re read all your posts there is nothing that lays out a solid positive argument to support a change, in fact there isn't even a weak case for it.

Even the peasants in Monty Python didn't persuade you?

Supreme executive power derives from
a mandate from the masses
not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

Back to top

IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 58007
Here
Gender: male

Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #357 - Sep 16^th, 2022 at 4:25pm

Bobby. wrote on Sep 16^th, 2022 at 3:53pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 16^th, 2022 at 3:47pm:

Hey Bobby I went back and re read all your posts there is nothing that lays out a solid positive argument to support a change, in fact there isn't even a weak case for it.

Even the peasants in Monty Python didn't persuade you?

Supreme executive power derives from
a mandate from the masses
not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

The shame is that factually Monty Python is the best attempt that we have seen.

You notice the major flaw in this ?

It is talking about Supreme executive power, The HOS does not wield executive power that is the elected Government led by the PM. The PM is only elected in his electorate so has no overall mandate from the people to lead.

This means that in the terms you are using for a change (The Monty Python position) The better argument is actually against the part of government that you want to keep as is.

It is the PM who is HOG and clearly not representative of the voting masses.

Now there is a real argument, the shame is that it does not apply to a non executive HOS.

Back to top

IP Logged

Bobby.

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 102278
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #358 - Sep 16^th, 2022 at 5:04pm

Dnarever wrote on Sep 16^th, 2022 at 4:25pm:

The shame is that factually Monty Python is the best attempt that we have seen.

You notice the major flaw in this ?

It is talking about Supreme executive power, The HOS does not wield executive power that is the elected Government led by the PM. The PM is only elected in his electorate so has no overall mandate from the people to lead.

This means that in the terms you are using for a change (The Monty Python position) The better argument is actually against the part of government that you want to keep as is.

It is the PM who is HOG and clearly not representative of the voting masses.

Now there is a real argument, the shame is that it does not apply to a non executive HOS.

But the GG can sack the Prime Minister and all his Government -
remember John Kerr?
The GG also signs all legislation to approve it.

Back to top

IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 58007
Here
Gender: male

Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #359 - Sep 16^th, 2022 at 8:54pm

Bobby. wrote on Sep 16^th, 2022 at 5:04pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 16^th, 2022 at 4:25pm:

The shame is that factually Monty Python is the best attempt that we have seen.

You notice the major flaw in this ?

It is talking about Supreme executive power, The HOS does not wield executive power that is the elected Government led by the PM. The PM is only elected in his electorate so has no overall mandate from the people to lead.

This means that in the terms you are using for a change (The Monty Python position) The better argument is actually against the part of government that you want to keep as is.

It is the PM who is HOG and clearly not representative of the voting masses.

Now there is a real argument, the shame is that it does not apply to a non executive HOS.

But the GG can sack the Prime Minister and all his Government -
remember John Kerr?
The GG also signs all legislation to approve it.

So now you make a good argument to keep the GG ?

OH and the proposed President has the same power.

Like the rest it is hardly a persuasive argument.

The thing about the Monty python argument being the best produced on this topic is accurate - it is, even though it is seriously flawed and in fact is a better case against the rest of our system - the bit everyone wants to keep (me too).

Back to top

IP Logged

Poll
Question: Do you want royalty banished from our political system?
* This poll has now closed *
Yes 15 (48.4%) No 16 (51.6%) Total votes: 31 « Created by: Bobby. on: Sep 11^th, 2022 at 5:03pm »