Australian Politics Forum - Time for a republic.

greggerypeccary

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #30 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:44pm

Frank wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:30pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:18pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 3:39pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 3:33pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 1:52pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 1:37pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 12:32pm:

To keep the royals is the same as saying that there's something wrong with us
that we can't cope without an anachronistic, outdated system from
1000 years ago that has privilege by birth and not merit as the core of its belief.
It's saying that we're too stupid to elect our own representatives
and govern ourselves.

It's time to become a republic.
Now - who would we have as the equivalent of our Governor General?
How would we decide?
Would we vote as the Americans do for their president?

We wouldn't accept just any wording for a new constitution.
The problem would be to elect someone honest enough
to be our governor general.
I don't like the idea as per now of the Prime Minister deciding for us -
and then both of them having the power to sack each other.

We had an example of an outrageous abuse of power that
Scott Morrison was made a minister of 5 portfolios
in such secrecy that not even his own ministers knew -
let alone the public.
That must have been because the Governor General
was in fear of losing his job if he didn't agree?
That is something you'd expect to find in a
banana republic or a 3rd world country.
It's totally unacceptable.

All it says Bobby, is that no-one has proposed a model that we think is better. Why is the republic movement unable to understand this simple concept? People will not vote for a republic merely because they dislike the monarchy. There has to be something worthwhile for them to vote for, not just against. No amount of this pointless blather can make up for the republic movement's inability to come up with the goods.

The Australian Choice Model

The Australian Choice Model will allow every State and Territory Parliament to nominate one candidate for election to be our Head of State. The Federal Parliament will be able to nominate up to three. We will then hold a national election for Australians to decide which candidate should be Head of State - a vote for all of us.

The Australian Choice Model ensures the role of Head of State is ceremonial in nature, with limited powers to safeguard and maintain the constitutional order and resolve political gridlock.

Quote:

role of Head of State is ceremonial in nature

So the aim is for a claytons republic.

Our current HOS is ceremonial in nature.

And, the only way to become Australia's Head of State is to be born into a certain family (on the other side of the planet) and to be a certain religion.

You cannot be Australia's HOS unless you are Protestant Anglican.

I don't know how any reasonable person can find that acceptable.

Perhaps you should come up with a better alternative instead of just whining about it.

Why would that be my responsibility?

Because you think (if think is the word I want in your case) the current arrangement is not satisfactory, Andy Pipkin.

So, if you think the current arrangement with interest rates/health care/petrol prices/etc. is not satisfactory, it's your responsibility to come up with a better alternative, yeah?

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Frank

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #31 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:45pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:34pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 3:52pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 3:31pm:

Currently, the only way to become Australia's Head of State is to be born into a certain family (on the other side of the planet) and to be a certain religion.

Anyone who thinks that is acceptable in our secular sovereign nation is not a real Australian.

Here we go, no argument, no reasoning -

My rock solid argument is, as a secular country we should not have a HOS who must be Protestant Anglican.

Wouldn't you agree?

Why?

Secular doesn't mean people can't have a certain religion. The sovereign's religion makes no difference to you or the millions of Muslims, Buddhists, Catholics, atheists etc.

Your argument is a rock solid Bbwianesque load of irrelevant twaddle. Again.

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Frank

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #32 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:48pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:44pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:41pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:30pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:18pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 3:39pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 3:33pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 1:52pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 1:37pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 12:32pm:

To keep the royals is the same as saying that there's something wrong with us
that we can't cope without an anachronistic, outdated system from
1000 years ago that has privilege by birth and not merit as the core of its belief.
It's saying that we're too stupid to elect our own representatives
and govern ourselves.

It's time to become a republic.
Now - who would we have as the equivalent of our Governor General?
How would we decide?
Would we vote as the Americans do for their president?

We wouldn't accept just any wording for a new constitution.
The problem would be to elect someone honest enough
to be our governor general.
I don't like the idea as per now of the Prime Minister deciding for us -
and then both of them having the power to sack each other.

We had an example of an outrageous abuse of power that
Scott Morrison was made a minister of 5 portfolios
in such secrecy that not even his own ministers knew -
let alone the public.
That must have been because the Governor General
was in fear of losing his job if he didn't agree?
That is something you'd expect to find in a
banana republic or a 3rd world country.
It's totally unacceptable.

All it says Bobby, is that no-one has proposed a model that we think is better. Why is the republic movement unable to understand this simple concept? People will not vote for a republic merely because they dislike the monarchy. There has to be something worthwhile for them to vote for, not just against. No amount of this pointless blather can make up for the republic movement's inability to come up with the goods.

The Australian Choice Model

The Australian Choice Model will allow every State and Territory Parliament to nominate one candidate for election to be our Head of State. The Federal Parliament will be able to nominate up to three. We will then hold a national election for Australians to decide which candidate should be Head of State - a vote for all of us.

The Australian Choice Model ensures the role of Head of State is ceremonial in nature, with limited powers to safeguard and maintain the constitutional order and resolve political gridlock.

Quote:

role of Head of State is ceremonial in nature

So the aim is for a claytons republic.

Our current HOS is ceremonial in nature.

And, the only way to become Australia's Head of State is to be born into a certain family (on the other side of the planet) and to be a certain religion.

You cannot be Australia's HOS unless you are Protestant Anglican.

I don't know how any reasonable person can find that acceptable.

Perhaps you should come up with a better alternative instead of just whining about it.

Why would that be my responsibility?

Because you think (if think is the word I want in your case) the current arrangement is not satisfactory, Andy Pipkin.

So, if you think the current arrangement with interest rates/health care/petrol prices/etc. is not satisfactory, it's your responsibility to come up with a better alternative, yeah?

Of course, Bbwian. How can you say that there could be a better system if you have no idea what such a better system might look like?

Or you can be be like Andy Pipkin, of course.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #33 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:51pm

Frank wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:45pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:34pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 3:52pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 3:31pm:

Currently, the only way to become Australia's Head of State is to be born into a certain family (on the other side of the planet) and to be a certain religion.

Anyone who thinks that is acceptable in our secular sovereign nation is not a real Australian.

Here we go, no argument, no reasoning -

My rock solid argument is, as a secular country we should not have a HOS who must be Protestant Anglican.

Wouldn't you agree?

Why?

Secular doesn't mean people can't have a certain religion.

You don't understand.

It's not that the HOS can have any particular religion, or even that they are permitted to be an atheist.

To be Australia's HOS one must be Protestant Anglican.

You cannot be atheist, or any other religion.

That doesn't quite sit right when one considers Section 116 of The Constitution.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48822 At my desk.	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #34 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:53pm We understand why you are whining Greg. We're just not sure what the point of it is. Do you hope to achieve something by it? Is this "inspirational whining"?
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 102278 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #35 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:58pm freediver wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:53pm: We understand why you are whining Greg. We're just not sure what the point of it is. Do you hope to achieve something by it? Is this "inspirational whining"? Hi FD, would you prefer another system of Govt. without royalty?
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 135950 Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #36 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:58pm freediver wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:53pm: We understand why you are whining Greg. We're just not sure what the point of it is. Do you hope to achieve something by it? Yes: I hope to educate some people. A tall order on here, I know.
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74153 Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #37 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 5:00pm freediver wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:53pm: We understand why you are whining Greg I'm not sure sore end does.
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freediver

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Posts: 48822
At my desk.

Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #38 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 5:01pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:58pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:53pm:

We understand why you are whining Greg. We're just not sure what the point of it is. Do you hope to achieve something by it?

Yes: I hope to educate some people.

A tall order on here, I know.

Ah. "Educational whining."

I think people already know you lack a better alternative.

Bobby. wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:58pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 4:53pm:

We understand why you are whining Greg. We're just not sure what the point of it is. Do you hope to achieve something by it?

Is this "inspirational whining"?

Hi FD,
would you prefer another system of Govt. without royalty?

Depends entirely on the system Bobby. I don't think we should swap the GG for gas chambers, for example.

How about you?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 102278 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #39 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 5:03pm Started a new poll Do you want royalty banished from our political system?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48822 At my desk.	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #40 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 5:04pm Thanks Bobby. That is a good demonstration of the feeble-minded approach that has made the republican movement a decades-long failure.
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 102278 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #41 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 5:06pm freediver wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 5:01pm: Depends entirely on the system Bobby. I don't think we should swap the GG for gas chambers, for example. How about you? That's a straw man fallacy - naughty - naughty. Anyway - you get a democratic vote above.
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 102278 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #42 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 5:07pm freediver wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 5:04pm: Thanks Bobby. That is a good demonstration of the feeble-minded approach that has made the republican movement a decades-long failure. Why - are you royalty?
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freediver

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At my desk.

Re: Time for a republic.
Reply #43 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 5:08pm

Bobby. wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 5:06pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 5:01pm:

Depends entirely on the system Bobby. I don't think we should swap the GG for gas chambers, for example.

How about you?

That's a straw man fallacy - naughty - naughty. Embarrassed

Anyway - you get a democratic vote above.

Can you explain why you think it is a strawman fallacy?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74153 Gender:	Re: Time for a republic. Reply #44 - Sep 11^th, 2022 at 5:08pm Bobby. wrote on Sep 11^th, 2022 at 5:07pm: Why - are you royalty? He's king of the sewer Aussie is his prince Kings Consort
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Poll
Question: Do you want royalty banished from our political system?
* This poll has now closed *
Yes 15 (48.4%) No 16 (51.6%) Total votes: 31 « Created by: Bobby. on: Sep 11^th, 2022 at 5:03pm »