Australian Politics Forum - Roberts-Smith VC

Lisa Jones

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Re: Roberts-Smith VC
Reply #45 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 10:10am

Hey everyone .... I've been quietly reflecting about this topic and I'm beginning to see too much of 1 colour : grey.

I don't think we have enough information to know what to think or feel about Roberts Smith.

So I've started collating a jig saw puzzle of sorts here ...consisting of pieces (evidenced by links) which focus on the guy himself AND the contextual environment ie sub culture under which he operated.

I strongly recommend (of course you don't have to lol) that we all read this interesting link. If you find anything interesting online that sheds light on Roberts Smith ... by all means please share that information.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-11/killings-of-unarmed-afghans-by-australian...

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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chimera Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 11834 Armidale Gender:	Re: Roberts-Smith VC Reply #46 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 10:17am Article 3. https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/geneva-convention-relative-treatment-prisoners-war
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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Roberts-Smith VC
Reply #47 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 10:47am

chimera wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 10:17am:

Article 3.
https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/geneva-convention-relative-treatment-prisoners-war

It has yet to be proven that R-S actually did not abide by those tenets....

There is nothing wrong with this appointment at this time....

Now what about that apology to 2 Sqn and its restoration?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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chimera Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 11834 Armidale Gender:	Re: Roberts-Smith VC Reply #48 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 11:02am That's so and my posts were about Frank and Lisa approving of the alleged shooting of prisoners in the court trial.
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Aussie

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Re: Roberts-Smith VC
Reply #49 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 12:33pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 10:47am:

chimera wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 10:17am:

Article 3.
https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/geneva-convention-relative-treatment-prisoners-war

It has yet to be proven that R-S actually did not abide by those tenets....

There is nothing wrong with this appointment at this time....

Now what about that apology to 2 Sqn and its restoration?

While the Brereton Report remains , that 'SQN' will remain disbanded. The few very bad apples sullied the name of the noble many, but....no more 'getting away with it.'

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Grappler Deep State Feller Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 85115 Always was always will be HOME Gender:	Re: Roberts-Smith VC Reply #50 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 12:40pm It seems meet then that the Brereton Report be put to the full test.... Bring on the actions....................... or surrender now. Such accusations cannot be left hanging in the air while awaiting the outcome of some civil suit.............
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chimera Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 11834 Armidale Gender:	Re: Roberts-Smith VC Reply #51 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 12:44pm civil suit ...war crimes inquiry.
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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Roberts-Smith VC
Reply #52 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 1:13pm

chimera wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 12:44pm:

civil suit ...war crimes inquiry.

No equation between the two.... one is a civil suit - if there were indeed war crimes or even sufficient evidence to indicate so - these should go to trial to clear the air, and not just be left hanging or sitting like a pile of compost and slowly decomposing.

Sounds to me that those with the review in hand feel there is insufficient evidence to proceed - but persist with their personal "in the officer's mess" handling of allegations by imposing regulatory sanctions = 'company punishment' on the grand scale.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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chimera Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 11834 Armidale Gender:	Re: Roberts-Smith VC Reply #53 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 1:34pm They will be on the same facts and virtually cause the same impact on the accused and the unit. At least all the material will be given plenty of time to be assessed.
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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: Roberts-Smith VC
Reply #54 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 1:41pm

chimera wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 1:34pm:

They will be on the same facts and virtually cause the same impact on the accused and the unit. At least all the material will be given plenty of time to be assessed.

A civil suit and a legal case have different outcomes, and one cannot be used to prove another. Different arenas.

You can't say:- "Oh, well - the civil case found against Bloggs - therefore we find Bloggs guilty on the criminal charges..."

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Aussie

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Re: Roberts-Smith VC
Reply #55 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 1:50pm

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 1:41pm:

chimera wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 1:34pm:

They will be on the same facts and virtually cause the same impact on the accused and the unit. At least all the material will be given plenty of time to be assessed.

A civil suit and a legal case have different outcomes, and one cannot be used to prove another. Different arenas.

You can't say:- "Oh, well - the civil case found against Bloggs - therefore we find Bloggs guilty on the criminal charges..."

The terminology is very loose...all over the place.

Civil case = legal case.
Civil case does not equal criminal case.

Yes, an adverse conclusion in a civil case is irrelevant in any criminal case about the same issue.

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chimera Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 11834 Armidale Gender:	Re: Roberts-Smith VC Reply #56 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 1:56pm Right, so it's virtually the same. It needs criminal intent if in the war crimes court and possible defences of drunk, provocation or insane which seem unlikely. The personal impact on the accused either way in both cases seems similar.
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random

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Re: Roberts-Smith VC
Reply #57 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 4:04pm

Imagine, just imagine ...

You are an SAS grunt who is ordered to shoot an unarmed person, dragged out of their bed. You do it, you are 'blooded'. It follows that if you have not been blooded you are not a real SAS dude. The pressure to conform would be immense.

You get home, get discharged and the nightmares will not stop. At a BBQ you are introduced to an Afghani family who just moved to the area, really nice people with a few kids. You wake up screaming that night.

How many of the suicides we are seeing are related to these illegal behaviours? I think quite a few.

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So many farkwits, so little time.

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Gnads

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Re: Roberts-Smith VC
Reply #58 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 5:53pm

random wrote on Sep 14^th, 2022 at 9:31am:

Gnads wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 6:59pm:

random wrote on Sep 13^th, 2022 at 6:43pm:

There has been something wrong with this appointment from the beginning.

Pretty-boy steroid taking freak. He has debased the medal.

I mean what the faarking hell is this about?

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ed/69/aa/ed69aa5fdbbb4e869aec2a215b5fac99.jpg

What the farrk are you about you weak arsed cockroll?

I thought I made that clear, but for the slow ones in this herd, I will repeat myself.

"He is a steroid user, you do not get a body like that eating bananas. 'Roid-Rage' is a side effect of heavy steroid use, uncontrolled rages, sudden out of context anger outbursts and lack of empathy. Much of the Road Rage incidents are Roid-Rage triggered. Not to mention domestic violence. Starting to see the trend here?

He was given a VC because the country needed another hero. He was 'connected' through his father, was Male Model material and was in Afghanistan, it needed a make-over. Now, because it was all done for the wrong reasons, karma has stepped in.

BTW, most of the really effective special forces people across countries are often of average height or below. Short bones, wirey little bastards, efficient on food and can go for days without it. This guy could not do that, he could not go for long with out a hit of go juice."

You're the slow one ... spruiking supposition.

Have you ever been in a theatre of war? Bet not.

The SAS in Afghanistan were being used beyond what that section was meant to do ... they were acting as infantrymen .... not their job.

I'd suggest you study a bit more military history ... the Vietnam conflict would be a good place...

you crapping on that BRS was a drug(roid) junkie & former model material is just bollocks.

You no nothing about the physical makeup of SAS personnel other than malicious supposition.

You need a tap behind the left listener.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 49317 Gender:	Re: Roberts-Smith VC Reply #59 - Sep 14^th, 2022 at 6:02pm Nearly every war campaign in history had both sides infusing their troops with narcotics as a reward system. I mean - didn't the UN just love being shot at by US Pilots on amphetamines.
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