Australian Politics Forum - Hijab, a symbol of oppression.

polite_gandalf

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Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Reply #90 - Oct 6^th, 2022 at 11:13am

Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 10:54am:

If they do not accept Western values...

hmmm, you mean values like the right to wear a headscarf without fear of persecution?

Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 10:54am:

They degrade themselves by wearing...

[insert any piece of women's attire that triggers misogynists who wish to rule over women's lives - mini-skirt, high heels, tank-top etc etc]

"they degrade themselves..." - say the mullah's in Iran enforcing mandatory hijab
"they degrade themselves..." - say ISIS terrorists banning women going outside
"they degrade themselves..." - says the wife beater
"they degrade themselves..." - says the rapist
"they degrade themselves..." - says the mysognist objecting to women playing competitive sports
"they degrade themselves..." - says pretty much all of society when women started to stand up for their rights

Its amazing that one thing that trully unites the disparate societies all over the world - is the presence of men like you constantly reminding women how ashamed they should be of themselves.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Frank Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 47480 Gender:	Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression. Reply #91 - Oct 6^th, 2022 at 11:20am 1. They are beaten and shamed and murdered in Muslims countries for not wearing it. You have nothing to say about that. 2. They are ridiculed for wearing it here and you are mighty exercised about that. Anything will do for you to avoid facing 1.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Reply #92 - Oct 6^th, 2022 at 11:39am

Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 11:20am:

1. They are beaten and shamed and murdered in Muslims countries for not wearing it. You have nothing to say about that.

Then you didn't read my last post.

Don't mistake my words for an attempted sugar-coating of Islamist oppression of women in muslim countries. The take home message you should have got from my last post is that misogyny takes many forms - and that crude controls over dress is just one of them. I am also not attempting to draw a moral equivalence between saying nasty things and actual physical oppression. But the common thread between them both is an appalling attitude towards women in general. In both cases men are triggered by women expressing themselves in a particular way, and their instinctive reaction is always the same - to gas-light women by telling them its really their problem, and that they should be made to feel ashamed for it.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Reply #93 - Oct 6^th, 2022 at 11:48am

my point? You don't have a leg to stand on cynically tugging the emotional strings about poor oppressed women in Iran in your campaign against the hijab - since you articulate the very same misogynistic attitudes that leads to that very sort of oppression.

In Frank's utopia, women would suffer just as many restrictions and face the same amount of oppression as women in Iran. Fact.

Because at the end of the day, Frank is no different to the Mullahs - in his disrespect for women.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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issuevoter

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Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Reply #94 - Oct 6^th, 2022 at 12:49pm

So Gandalf, what did you ever do that compares to the bravery of school girls under a brutal Islam? Don't you ever stop whining? And while you are answering, what is the higher authority, the Australian Constitution or the Koran? Don't bother replying, we know what you are.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63143504

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression. Reply #95 - Oct 6^th, 2022 at 1:03pm Still trying your hand at grown-ups debate Issue? Awww so adorable.
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Frank

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Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Reply #96 - Oct 6^th, 2022 at 3:02pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 11:48am:

my point? You don't have a leg to stand on cynically tugging the emotional strings about poor oppressed women in Iran in your campaign against the hijab - since you articulate the very same misogynistic attitudes that leads to that very sort of oppression.

In Frank's utopia, women would suffer just as many restrictions and face the same amount of oppression as women in Iran. Fact.

Because at the end of the day, Frank is no different to the Mullahs - in his disrespect for women.

Silly nonsense. You Muslims pretend that opposing things are equivalent.

Enforcing the hijab in the name of Islam is now the same as telling women that they do not need to - should not - believe that the hijab is necessary for their full womanhood, Islzmic or otherwise, in a free society.

But while their sisters are beaten in Muslim countries for not wearing it, they put it on in the West, a reminder for themselves and all around them, that they still believe that men in free societies are just like Muslim men and without the hijab they would be cat's meat. And that may well be the case among their Muslim men who have brought the oppressive habits of Islam with them.

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John Smith

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Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Reply #97 - Oct 6^th, 2022 at 6:55pm

Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 8:38am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:42pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:28pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 7:30pm:

I'm not sure how your sobering up is supposed to change my outlook on what was said but I'm willing to give it a go. let me know when you're sober.

Women are beaten and killed for not wearing the hijab in some Islamic countries, thick planks.

Face it, address it.

women are beaten and killed every day for having husbands too ... do we ban the husband?

You can't be this stupid, planks (oh yes he is).

Islamic authorities are beating women because of 'incorrect' wearing of the hijab. That is not equivalent to domestic violence, ya ponce.

So? You want to ban the hijab because women get beaten for wearing it incorrectly. Women are beaten for wearing a bikini in those same states ... when have you ever called for the banning of bikinis ?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 75019 Gender:	Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression. Reply #98 - Oct 6^th, 2022 at 6:56pm Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 10:54am: Not the same as beating and killing, is it.
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freediver

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Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Reply #99 - Oct 6^th, 2022 at 8:54pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 10:30am:

freediver wrote on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 6:18pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 30^th, 2022 at 10:56am:

Its true Frank - you refer to hijabis as any one of:

- a miserable creature with no agency
- too ignorant/brainwashed to know any "better"
- deviantly flaunting symbols of oppression
- someone who is not worthy to be part of this society
- someone who is fare game for ridicule

the terms "hijab" and "hijabis" are pejoratives for you. You make it crystal clear that to wear the hijab is a form of deviancy and/or sign of ignorance or someone who has no agency. These women are nothing but caricatures to you.

So no, I am not emoting when I say you degrade and humiliate any woman who wears the hijab.

How much agency do hijabis generally have?

generally where? In Iran - obviously not much, in Australia, a lot more.

Arguing the degree of agency women have in wearing the hijab in a free country like Australia is a fools errand, and adds nothing to the debate.

Why not? If Australian women are being forced to wear the hijab, why would you not want to know about it and defend their rights?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 75019 Gender:	Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression. Reply #100 - Oct 6^th, 2022 at 9:32pm freediver wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 8:54pm: Why not? If Australian women are being forced to wear the hijab, why would you not want to know about it and defend their rights? Exactly ... why should they wear a hijab when they can instead be raped with cacti.
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issuevoter Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9200 The Great State of Mind Gender:	Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression. Reply #101 - Oct 7^th, 2022 at 4:29am polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 1:03pm: Still trying your hand at grown-ups debate Issue? Awww so adorable. Answer the question, if you are so grown up. Coward.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Reply #102 - Oct 7^th, 2022 at 10:12am

Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 3:02pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 11:48am:

my point? You don't have a leg to stand on cynically tugging the emotional strings about poor oppressed women in Iran in your campaign against the hijab - since you articulate the very same misogynistic attitudes that leads to that very sort of oppression.

In Frank's utopia, women would suffer just as many restrictions and face the same amount of oppression as women in Iran. Fact.

Because at the end of the day, Frank is no different to the Mullahs - in his disrespect for women.

Silly nonsense. You Muslims pretend that opposing things are equivalent.

Enforcing the hijab in the name of Islam is now the same as telling women that they do not need to - should not - believe that the hijab is necessary for their full womanhood, Islzmic or otherwise, in a free society.

But while their sisters are beaten in Muslim countries for not wearing it, they put it on in the West, a reminder for themselves and all around them, that they still believe that men in free societies are just like Muslim men and without the hijab they would be cat's meat. And that may well be the case among their Muslim men who have brought the oppressive habits of Islam with them.

You just don't get it Frank.

You and the mullahs are in lock-step in insisting you know what is right and best for women - and then gas-lighting those women as "degrading themselves" etc - when they don't follow your sage "guidance".

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Frank

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Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Reply #103 - Oct 7^th, 2022 at 10:26am

John Smith wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 6:55pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 8:38am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:42pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 8:28pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 5^th, 2022 at 7:30pm:

I'm not sure how your sobering up is supposed to change my outlook on what was said but I'm willing to give it a go. let me know when you're sober.

Women are beaten and killed for not wearing the hijab in some Islamic countries, thick planks.

Face it, address it.

women are beaten and killed every day for having husbands too ... do we ban the husband?

You can't be this stupid, planks (oh yes he is).

Islamic authorities are beating women because of 'incorrect' wearing of the hijab. That is not equivalent to domestic violence, ya ponce.

So? You want to ban the hijab because women get beaten for wearing it incorrectly. Women are beaten for wearing a bikini in those same states ... when have you ever called for the banning of bikinis ?

I don't want to ban it.

I just want to be able to freely say that it is oppressive and taints the wearer as either hostile to her adopted society or stupid. Also I want to be able to freely call out her male relatives and community as anachronistic little bullies who might be putting pressure on her to wear it.

The bikini as an analogy is so eyewateringly idiotic and wide of the mark that only a complete ponce like you could come up with is.

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Frank

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Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Reply #104 - Oct 7^th, 2022 at 10:28am

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 10:12am:

Frank wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 3:02pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 11:48am:

my point? You don't have a leg to stand on cynically tugging the emotional strings about poor oppressed women in Iran in your campaign against the hijab - since you articulate the very same misogynistic attitudes that leads to that very sort of oppression.

In Frank's utopia, women would suffer just as many restrictions and face the same amount of oppression as women in Iran. Fact.

Because at the end of the day, Frank is no different to the Mullahs - in his disrespect for women.

Silly nonsense. You Muslims pretend that opposing things are equivalent.

Enforcing the hijab in the name of Islam is now the same as telling women that they do not need to - should not - believe that the hijab is necessary for their full womanhood, Islzmic or otherwise, in a free society.

But while their sisters are beaten in Muslim countries for not wearing it, they put it on in the West, a reminder for themselves and all around them, that they still believe that men in free societies are just like Muslim men and without the hijab they would be cat's meat. And that may well be the case among their Muslim men who have brought the oppressive habits of Islam with them.

You just don't get it Frank.

You and the mullahs are in lock-step in insisting you know what is right and best for women - and then gas-lighting those women as "degrading themselves" etc - when they don't follow your sage "guidance".

Bollocks.

Women DON'T want to wear it, that's why they are protesting - and get beaten, even killed. Nobody gets beaten or killed for WANTING to wear it.

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