Australian Politics Forum - Hijab, a symbol of oppression.

Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 47477 Gender:	Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression. Reply #180 - Nov 7^th, 2022 at 3:40pm polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 1:23pm: Its YOU who refuses to acknowledge any alternative - like the independent, educated woman who wears it freely, and has not a thought in the world about portraying oppression or causing offence. Name one.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Reply #181 - Nov 8^th, 2022 at 1:47pm

Frank wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 3:39pm:

The West must accommodate you, you must not accommodate the West, not even in the West.

Equivalence fail.

Muslim countries rarely demand that foreign women don the veil in their country - and it would be unreasonable if they did. It would be just as unreasonable as you and your ilk demanding foreign women in Australia to discard the veil.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Reply #182 - Nov 8^th, 2022 at 1:51pm

Frank wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 3:40pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 1:23pm:

Its YOU who refuses to acknowledge any alternative - like the independent, educated woman who wears it freely, and has not a thought in the world about portraying oppression or causing offence.

Name one.

Thats you refusing to aknowledge any possible alternative right there. No further elaboration needed.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Frank

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Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Reply #183 - Nov 8^th, 2022 at 2:49pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 1:47pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 3:39pm:

The West must accommodate you, you must not accommodate the West, not even in the West.

Equivalence fail.

Muslim countries rarely demand that foreign women don the veil in their country - and it would be unreasonable if they did.

Nonsense and you know it.
Afganistan, Iran, Saudi the cops will enforce it. Elsewhere you'd be harassed and groped constantly by men if you are not covered up.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Reply #184 - Nov 10^th, 2022 at 2:32pm

Frank wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 2:49pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 1:47pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 3:39pm:

The West must accommodate you, you must not accommodate the West, not even in the West.

Equivalence fail.

Muslim countries rarely demand that foreign women don the veil in their country - and it would be unreasonable if they did.

Nonsense and you know it.
Afganistan, Iran, Saudi the cops will enforce it.

aaaand pretty much nowhere else in the muslim world (barring a handful of isolated jurisdictions within countries). Thats what I mean by "rarely". But regardless, its not acceptable - just as you and your ilk wanting to enforce female head-dress laws in the west is not acceptable. Two wrongs do not make a right!

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Reply #185 - Nov 12^th, 2022 at 4:10pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2022 at 12:54pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 1:27pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:03pm:

Brilliant FD.

Let me guess - if someone asks you how you know a particular woman is being coerced to wear the hijab - your answer is "because she is being coerced" - right? FD logic at its finest.

Do you think the presence of a hijab per se should automatically be assumed to be suspicious vis a vis domestic abuse?

Do you think it matters whether they are coerced Gandalf, or this this just a rhetorical question?

Of course it matters FD - coercion is bad.

The question is, how are you going to find out?

Brace yourself Gandalf. This might be a difficult concept for a Muslim.

Ask them.

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Frank

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Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Reply #186 - Nov 12^th, 2022 at 5:56pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 10^th, 2022 at 2:32pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 2:49pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 1:47pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 3:39pm:

The West must accommodate you, you must not accommodate the West, not even in the West.

Equivalence fail.

Muslim countries rarely demand that foreign women don the veil in their country - and it would be unreasonable if they did.

Nonsense and you know it.
Afganistan, Iran, Saudi the cops will enforce it.

aaaand pretty much nowhere else in the muslim world (barring a handful of isolated jurisdictions within countries). Thats what I mean by "rarely". But regardless, its not acceptable - just as you and your ilk wanting to enforce female head-dress laws in the west is not acceptable. Two wrongs do not make a right!

You forgot this bit gandi:

Elsewhere you'd be harassed and groped constantly by men if you are not covered up.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Reply #187 - Nov 15^th, 2022 at 2:45pm

freediver wrote on Nov 12^th, 2022 at 4:10pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2022 at 12:54pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 1:27pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:03pm:

Brilliant FD.

Let me guess - if someone asks you how you know a particular woman is being coerced to wear the hijab - your answer is "because she is being coerced" - right? FD logic at its finest.

Do you think the presence of a hijab per se should automatically be assumed to be suspicious vis a vis domestic abuse?

Do you think it matters whether they are coerced Gandalf, or this this just a rhetorical question?

Of course it matters FD - coercion is bad.

The question is, how are you going to find out?

Brace yourself Gandalf. This might be a difficult concept for a Muslim.

Ask them.

Presumably you think the mere sight of a woman in a hijab alone is sufficient grounds to "just ask them" if they are being oppressed?

Thats the key question (just asked in yet another different way) that you continually refuse to answer FD. If it is so, then that would be the most utterly ridiculous thing I've heard.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Reply #188 - Nov 15^th, 2022 at 2:52pm

Frank wrote on Nov 12^th, 2022 at 5:56pm:

You forgot this bit gandi:

Elsewhere you'd be harassed and groped constantly by men if you are not covered up.

Thats quite a heroic claim Frank. Literally millions of non-muslim women visit muslim countries every year - the vast majority of them don't wear hijab while they are there (think Indonesia, Egypt, Turkey...). It would be quite a revelation indeed to find out that this tourism continues - seemingly unabated - despite the fact that these women are all getting "harassed and groped constantly" while they are there.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 106377 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression. Reply #189 - Nov 15^th, 2022 at 2:59pm Iran used to be a groovy place: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-4148684/Stunning-photos-r...
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Frank

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Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Reply #190 - Nov 15^th, 2022 at 4:14pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 2:52pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 12^th, 2022 at 5:56pm:

You forgot this bit gandi:

Elsewhere you'd be harassed and groped constantly by men if you are not covered up.

Thats quite a heroic claim Frank. Literally millions of non-muslim women visit muslim countries every year - the vast majority of them don't wear hijab while they are there (think Indonesia, Egypt, Turkey...). It would be quite a revelation indeed to find out that this tourism continues - seemingly unabated - despite the fact that these women are all getting "harassed and groped constantly" while they are there.

Indonesia
https://theculturetrip.com/asia/indonesia/articles/a-guide-to-indonesia-for-solo...

Will I be harassed in Egypt?
Unfortunately, the short answer is yes. Harassment drops off a cliff for women rocking grey hair, but women are very likely to run into some sexual and verbal harassment. Blue-eyed travellers, black travellers and travellers with curvier body-shapes seem to attract more. Most harassment tends to come from groups of young men loitering on street corners shouting obscenities as you walk past. This is wearying, though not usually particularly threatening. Verbal harassment notches up the creepy-index when it involves men trailing you down the street. Physical harassment is more likely to occur in crowded, ‘trapped-in’ situations such as public transport.

As for that other hassling that Egypt is famous for – the souvenir-tat vendors, boat and camel touts hustling for business – take comfort in the fact that they’re equal opportunity hasslers: they’ll happily harass both male and female tourists until you crack and buy that toy pyramid and gold glitter snow globe.

Karnalistan:

Strong Islamic codes of dress and behaviour exist in Pakistan. Avoid wearing shorts or short-sleeved clothes. Avoid physical contact between men and women in public. Women may be harassed, especially if they're alone.
https://www.smartraveller.gov.au/destinations/asia/pakistan

Etc

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Bobby.

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Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Reply #191 - Nov 15^th, 2022 at 4:23pm

Thanks Frank,
what a terrible place:

https://www.smartraveller.gov.au/destinations/asia/pakistan

Pakistan Local laws

Don't use or carry illegal drugs. Penalties for drug offences are severe. They include the death penalty, large fines and long prison sentences.

Domestic violence against women is common in Pakistan. Standards of domestic violence support are far lower than similar services available in Australia. You should consider these risks if you're planning travel to Pakistan.

Corporal punishment applies for some offences, including robbery, public drunkenness, and drinking alcohol if you're Muslim. Be aware of religious sensitivities. It's illegal to import alcohol or pork products. It's illegal to try to convert a Muslim or encourage them to abandon their religion.

Same-sex relations are illegal. It's also illegal for unmarried heterosexual couples to live together.

Blasphemy can attract the death penalty. Those charged with blasphemy can spend years in prison, undergo lengthy trial processes and are in constant danger from members of the public or prisoners. If you have made public comments, including on social media, that may be construed as blasphemous you should not travel to Pakistan.

Strong Islamic codes of dress and behaviour exist in Pakistan. Avoid wearing shorts or short-sleeved clothes. Avoid physical contact between men and women in public. Women may be harassed, especially if they're alone.

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issuevoter Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9200 The Great State of Mind Gender:	Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression. Reply #192 - Nov 15^th, 2022 at 5:23pm Isn't Islam a great religion? Just makes you want to run out and convert, "Ali akbar!"
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John Smith

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Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Reply #193 - Nov 15^th, 2022 at 5:33pm

freediver wrote on Nov 12^th, 2022 at 4:10pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2022 at 12:54pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 1:27pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:03pm:

Brilliant FD.

Let me guess - if someone asks you how you know a particular woman is being coerced to wear the hijab - your answer is "because she is being coerced" - right? FD logic at its finest.

Do you think the presence of a hijab per se should automatically be assumed to be suspicious vis a vis domestic abuse?

Do you think it matters whether they are coerced Gandalf, or this this just a rhetorical question?

Of course it matters FD - coercion is bad.

The question is, how are you going to find out?

Brace yourself Gandalf. This might be a difficult concept for a Muslim.

Ask them.

How many have you asked? Roll Eyes

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I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Hijab, a symbol of oppression.
Reply #194 - Nov 17^th, 2022 at 9:49am

John Smith wrote on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 5:33pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 12^th, 2022 at 4:10pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2022 at 12:54pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 1:27pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:03pm:

Brilliant FD.

Let me guess - if someone asks you how you know a particular woman is being coerced to wear the hijab - your answer is "because she is being coerced" - right? FD logic at its finest.

Do you think the presence of a hijab per se should automatically be assumed to be suspicious vis a vis domestic abuse?

Do you think it matters whether they are coerced Gandalf, or this this just a rhetorical question?

Of course it matters FD - coercion is bad.

The question is, how are you going to find out?

Brace yourself Gandalf. This might be a difficult concept for a Muslim.

Ask them.

How many have you asked? Roll Eyes

I still can't work out if FD is so delusional that he seriously thinks its justifiable to walk up to a woman in the street, and ask (presumably in genuine concern for their well-being) if they are being oppressed - on no other evidence other than the fact that they are wearing a hijab, or...

if he simply hasn't thought this through properly.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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