Australian Politics Forum - Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued

polite_gandalf

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Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued
Reply #120 - Oct 18^th, 2022 at 11:00am

freediver wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 7:38am:

We didn't dump them. They left voluntarily.

Quite an achievement for an unborn fetus wouldn't you say? most of whom were not even conceived at the time.

Quote:

Sure we can, if they leave the country to join a hostile foreign terrorist organisation.

No, you can't FD. What a laughable proposition. By your logic, Afghanistan can just wave off hordes of their own terrorists en-route to Australia and absolve themselves of all responsibility for them. Provided of course they leave "voluntarily" - right? They can even use the defence "oh, but we told them not to!"

Quote:

Nice dodge Gandalf. What about if the fact is that they voluntarily left the country to join a hostile foreign terrorist organisation? Is that enough facts, or do you need to wait until after they come home and start stabbing random people on the street?

caveats are obviously needed on the word "voluntarily" - with a "more information needed" label attached. Especially for those unborn fetuses. Facts FD. They actually matter.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49397 At my desk.	Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued Reply #121 - Oct 18^th, 2022 at 12:22pm Quote: Quite an achievement for an unborn fetus wouldn't you say? Unborn fetus's have no rights to citizenship under any law.
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Brian Ross

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Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued
Reply #122 - Oct 18^th, 2022 at 1:05pm

Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 12:26am:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 17^th, 2022 at 4:19pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 17^th, 2022 at 4:14pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 17^th, 2022 at 1:46pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 16^th, 2022 at 9:18am:

Having morons for parents does not entitle you to Australian citizenship.

Yeah it does actually - when those 'moron' parents themselves were Australian citizens.

They are Australian citizens by law, and therefore our responsibility.

One thing you seem to forget is that this is not merely an exercise in compassion - it is about us, as a country, not having the right to simply dump our unwanted on other countries. They obviously don't want them either.

Its like if we loaded up Ivan Milat (before he died) on a plane and dumped him in some middle eastern shithole - so the people there would have to deal with that monster instead of us.
.

Complete bollocks, on stilts.

We didn't 'dump' them, they went despite being told by us not to.

Actually, we are dumping them by abandoning their requests for sanctuary, Soren. They and their children are citizens. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

They are only citizens when there are do-gooders like you who are willing to ignore their criminal actions ... otherwise they don't give a toss about Australia, they're just taking advantage of govt handouts so they, or their children, can try their stupid little jaunt again some day. If you think they care about Western life, you're an idiot

They are Australian citizens. Some people think more of that than you. The legal system believes it is irrevocable. Consider that. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49397 At my desk.	Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued Reply #123 - Oct 18^th, 2022 at 1:22pm Quote: The legal system believes it is irrevocable. Crap.
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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 47742 Gender:	Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued Reply #124 - Oct 18^th, 2022 at 1:33pm Quote: The legal system believes it is irrevocable. "The legal system believes" Have you met the legal system, Bbwian? Those bints - what have they done with their Australian passports?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued
Reply #125 - Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:15pm

freediver wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 12:22pm:

Quote:

Quite an achievement for an unborn fetus wouldn't you say?

Unborn fetus's have no rights to citizenship under any law.

Nor are they capable of making decisions like voluntarily leaving one country for another - as you claimed.

Also, they do have rights to citizenship when they are born. And they have been born FD.

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« Last Edit: Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:28pm by polite_gandalf »

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued
Reply #126 - Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:27pm

Frank wrote on Oct 17^th, 2022 at 4:42pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 17^th, 2022 at 4:19pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 17^th, 2022 at 4:14pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 17^th, 2022 at 1:46pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 16^th, 2022 at 9:18am:

Having morons for parents does not entitle you to Australian citizenship.

Yeah it does actually - when those 'moron' parents themselves were Australian citizens.

They are Australian citizens by law, and therefore our responsibility.

One thing you seem to forget is that this is not merely an exercise in compassion - it is about us, as a country, not having the right to simply dump our unwanted on other countries. They obviously don't want them either.

Its like if we loaded up Ivan Milat (before he died) on a plane and dumped him in some middle eastern shithole - so the people there would have to deal with that monster instead of us.
.

Complete bollocks, on stilts.

We didn't 'dump' them, they went despite being told by us not to.

Actually, we are dumping them by abandoning their requests for sanctuary, Soren. They and their children are citizens. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

We have absolutely nothing to do with their being there. Nothing.
They were told not to go. They were told it might be a criminal offence if they went.
Yet they went.

No dumping.

Listen to yourself Frank, you are so transparently silly.

Imagine if a bunch of Islamists from some shithole middle east country turned up on our shores and cause us mayhem. Said shithole country declares "We have absolutely nothing to do with their being there. Nothing.
They were told not to go. They were told it might be a criminal offence if they went.
Yet they went."

Are you going to be consistent and agree that this country bears absolutely no responsibility for these citizens of theirs? Are you going to argue that they are now the problem of any other country except the one they actually came from and are still citizens of?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued
Reply #127 - Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:32pm

Frank wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 1:33pm:

Quote:

The legal system believes it is irrevocable.

"The legal system believes" Grin

Have you met the legal system, Bbwian?

Those bints - what have they done with their Australian passports?

Their passports are immaterial, Soren. They remain citizens, no matter what they have or haven't done with their passports. The legal system views them as citizens. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued
Reply #128 - Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:53pm

Frank wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 1:33pm:

Quote:

The legal system believes it is irrevocable.

"The legal system believes" Grin

Have you met the legal system, Bbwian?

Those bints - what have they done with their Australian passports?

He is right in the case where the person doesn't hold dual citizenship.

We can't, under Australian law, make people stateless. And while they remain Australian citizens, they are our responsibility. Why should we expect them to be someone elses?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Frank

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Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued
Reply #129 - Oct 18^th, 2022 at 4:16pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:53pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 1:33pm:

Quote:

The legal system believes it is irrevocable.

"The legal system believes" Grin

Have you met the legal system, Bbwian?

Those bints - what have they done with their Australian passports?

He is right in the case where the person doesn't hold dual citizenship.

We can't, under Australian law, make people stateless. And while they remain Australian citizens, they are our responsibility. Why should we expect them to be someone elses?

So what have they done with their passports?
Destroyed them.

Why don't they apply for new ones. Put in the paperwork, like everyone else.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued Reply #130 - Oct 20^th, 2022 at 10:23am LOL are you seriously suggesting they could come back home no problem - if only they had kept their passports? tsk tsk Frank, rolls eyes
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Frank

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Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued
Reply #131 - Oct 20^th, 2022 at 11:50am

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 20^th, 2022 at 10:23am:

LOL are you seriously suggesting they could come back home no problem - if only they had kept their passports?

tsk tsk Frank, rolls eyes

Why? Do you know of any law that prevents an Australian passport holder from entering Australia?

Anyway, joining the Islamic STATE should mean forfeiting their Australian citizenship, regardless if it was their only one before or one of a dual citizenship. They joined an enemy state of Australia. Their Australian citizenship should be stripped from them for that. That the Islamic STATE collapsed is no reason to restore it to them.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued
Reply #132 - Oct 20^th, 2022 at 12:21pm

Frank wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 4:16pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:53pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 1:33pm:

Quote:

The legal system believes it is irrevocable.

"The legal system believes" Grin

Have you met the legal system, Bbwian?

Those bints - what have they done with their Australian passports?

He is right in the case where the person doesn't hold dual citizenship.

We can't, under Australian law, make people stateless. And while they remain Australian citizens, they are our responsibility. Why should we expect them to be someone elses?

So what have they done with their passports?
Destroyed them.

Why don't they apply for new ones. Put in the paperwork, like everyone else.

The government has in the past refused to issue new ones, Soren. Not because of who they are but because of their circumstance. They feared them, so they refused them entry to Australia. They did not however, revoke their citizenship. Why? Because it was complicated, too complicated for numpties like you to figure it out. Why don't you answer Gandalf's question? Is it really too hard to figure out an answer? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued
Reply #133 - Oct 20^th, 2022 at 1:19pm

Quote:

Anyway, joining the Islamic STATE should mean forfeiting their Australian citizenship, regardless if it was their only one before or one of a dual citizenship. They joined an enemy state of Australia. Their Australian citizenship should be stripped from them for that. That the Islamic STATE collapsed is no reason to restore it to them.

We don't make people stateless for a very good reason - namely there is no just grounds for us to expect another country to be burdened the cost of looking after them. The fact that they may be criminals (as you seem determined to insist they are) - makes this even more the case: whoever takes them has to bear the costs of:
- institutionalising them
- rehabilitating them
- protecting their own community from them
- (most likely) putting them on welfare if they ever get free of incarceration
- medical costs etc etc

If ISIS still existed and it was possible for them to stay there, it would be a completely different story. However that "homeland" is now the sovereign land of another country - I think Syria or Turkey. They don't want them either - they don't deserve them (they were fighting ISIS just FYI), and we have no right to dump these people on them.

Who are we to tell another country that our undesirables - and all the associated costs - are now their problem?

How is it fair? You certainly wouldn't expect us to host someone else's undesirables ("go back to where you came from" - you would screech) - so why should it ok for someone else?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Frank

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Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued
Reply #134 - Oct 20^th, 2022 at 1:40pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 20^th, 2022 at 1:19pm:

Quote:

Anyway, joining the Islamic STATE should mean forfeiting their Australian citizenship, regardless if it was their only one before or one of a dual citizenship. They joined an enemy state of Australia. Their Australian citizenship should be stripped from them for that. That the Islamic STATE collapsed is no reason to restore it to them.

We don't make people stateless for a very good reason - namely there is no just grounds for us to expect another country to be burdened the cost of looking after them. The fact that they may be criminals (as you seem determined to insist they are) - makes this even more the case: whoever takes them has to bear the costs of:
- institutionalising them
- rehabilitating them
- protecting their own community from them
- (most likely) putting them on welfare if they ever get free of incarceration
- medical costs etc etc

If ISIS still existed and it was possible for them to stay there, it would be a completely different story. However that "homeland" is now the sovereign land of another country - I think Syria or Turkey. They don't want them either - they don't deserve them (they were fighting ISIS just FYI), and we have no right to dump these people on them.

Who are we to tell another country that our undesirables - and all the associated costs - are now their problem?

How is it fair? You certainly wouldn't expect us to host someone else's undesirables ("go back to where you came from" - you would screech) - so why should it ok for someone else?

We dumped nobody. These jihadis and their bints dumped Australia.

Let some fundamentalist Muslim country take them in. Afghanistan, say. They'd fit right in. Or Yemen or Pakistan.

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