Australian Politics Forum - Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued

Frank

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Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued
Reply #225 - Nov 15^th, 2022 at 3:00pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 2:41pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 12^th, 2022 at 4:56pm:

By that logic the Palestinians should ALL be taken by Turkey, Syria, Jordan etc because the last state they were part of, the Ottoman Empire, no longer exists, only its successor states.
Or they should resign to being part of Israel and territories occupied and controlled by Israel, the other successor state on that corner of the world (previously occupied and controlled by Jordan and Egypt).

Not even close to that logic. For starters, Palestinians were never Turkish, Syrian or Jordianian citizens - they weren't even born there. Unlike the ISIS aussies.

Secondly, Israel became responsible for them the moment they annexed their land. They should have made them Israeli citizens years ago (or at least be given the opportunity to become so).

They were citizens of the Ottoman Empire. These jihadis were the citizens of IS.

The ones IN Israel ARE Israeli citizens. The ones in WB & G aren't since these are occupied territories, not part if any state since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued
Reply #226 - Nov 15^th, 2022 at 3:08pm

Palestinians did not run off to join the Ottoman Empire from the other side of the world. They were literally born there. I can't believe you are having difficulty with this non-comparison Frank.

Also, Israel has over 2 million Palestinians under their control since they annexed the WB. As de-facto administrators of these lands and their people, they are obligated to either offer citizenship or grant them equal rights as citizens. Yes, in theory they can apply for citizenship, but in reality most of those who apply get rejected

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Frank

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Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued
Reply #227 - Nov 15^th, 2022 at 8:35pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 3:08pm:

Also, Israel has over 2 million Palestinians under their control since they annexed the WB. As de-facto administrators of these lands and their people, they are obligated to either offer citizenship or grant them equal rights as citizens. Yes, in theory they can apply for citizenship, but in reality most of those who apply get rejected

Why didn't that apply to Jordan and Egypt before 1967?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued
Reply #228 - Nov 17^th, 2022 at 10:03am

Frank wrote on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 8:35pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 3:08pm:

Also, Israel has over 2 million Palestinians under their control since they annexed the WB. As de-facto administrators of these lands and their people, they are obligated to either offer citizenship or grant them equal rights as citizens. Yes, in theory they can apply for citizenship, but in reality most of those who apply get rejected

Why didn't that apply to Jordan and Egypt before 1967?

It did, and Jordan granted it to them. The WB Palestinians retained Jordanian citizenship right up until Jordan relinquished claim to the WB in 1988:

Quote:

When Jordan transferred its full citizenship rights to the residents of the West Bank, the annexation more than doubled the population of Jordan.[4] The naturalized Palestinians enjoyed equal opportunities in all sectors of the state without discrimination, and they were given half of the seats of the Jordanian parliament.[13]

After Jordan lost the West Bank to Israel in the 1967 Six-Day War, the Palestinians there remained Jordanian citizens until Jordan renounced claims to and severed administrative ties with the territory in 1988.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordanian_annexation_of_the_West_Bank

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Frank

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Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued
Reply #229 - Nov 17^th, 2022 at 10:43am

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 17^th, 2022 at 10:03am:

Frank wrote on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 8:35pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 3:08pm:

Also, Israel has over 2 million Palestinians under their control since they annexed the WB. As de-facto administrators of these lands and their people, they are obligated to either offer citizenship or grant them equal rights as citizens. Yes, in theory they can apply for citizenship, but in reality most of those who apply get rejected

Why didn't that apply to Jordan and Egypt before 1967?

It did, and Jordan granted it to them. The WB Palestinians retained Jordanian citizenship right up until Jordan relinquished claim to the WB in 1988:

Quote:

When Jordan transferred its full citizenship rights to the residents of the West Bank, the annexation more than doubled the population of Jordan.[4] The naturalized Palestinians enjoyed equal opportunities in all sectors of the state without discrimination, and they were given half of the seats of the Jordanian parliament.[13]

After Jordan lost the West Bank to Israel in the 1967 Six-Day War, the Palestinians there remained Jordanian citizens until Jordan renounced claims to and severed administrative ties with the territory in 1988.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordanian_annexation_of_the_West_Bank

So what happened in 1967, then? Roll Eyes

The third Arab Israeli war happened. Why? Egypt blockaded Israel and the Arabs prepared to attach Israel, again, from all sides.

Main events of the war
In response to the apparent mobilization of its Arab neighbours, early on the morning of June 5, Israel staged a sudden preemptive air assault that destroyed more than 90 percent Egypt’s air force on the tarmac. A similar air assault incapacitated the Syrian air force. Without cover from the air, the Egyptian army was left vulnerable to attack. Within three days the Israelis had achieved an overwhelming victory on the ground, capturing the Gaza Strip and all of the Sinai Peninsula up to the east bank of the Suez Canal.

An eastern front was also opened on June 5 when Jordanian forces began shelling West Jerusalem—disregarding Israel’s warning to King Hussein to keep Jordan out of the fight—only to face a crushing Israeli counterattack. On June 7 Israeli forces drove Jordanian forces out of East Jerusalem and most of the West Bank.

The UN Security Council called for a cease-fire on June 7 that was immediately accepted by Israel and Jordan. Egypt accepted the following day. Syria held out, however, and continued to shell villages in northern Israel. On June 9 Israel launched an assault on the fortified Golan Heights, capturing it from Syrian forces after a day of heavy fighting. Syria accepted the cease-fire on June 10.

https://www.britannica.com/event/Six-Day-War

As the Sage of Crawford would have asked about the Arabs: " Is our children learning?"

No.

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Frank

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Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued
Reply #230 - Nov 17^th, 2022 at 3:33pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 3:08pm:

Palestinians did not run off to join the Ottoman Empire from the other side of the world. They were literally born there. I can't believe you are having difficulty with this non-comparison Frank.

Also, Israel has over 2 million Palestinians under their control since they annexed the WB. As de-facto administrators of these lands and their people, they are obligated to either offer citizenship or grant them equal rights as citizens. Yes, in theory they can apply for citizenship, but in reality most of those who apply get rejected

That would be giving citizenship to Israel's sworn enemies who would not rest until it is destroyed.

Would you give your sworn, deadly enemies citizenship? Of course not.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued
Reply #231 - Nov 18^th, 2022 at 9:35am

Frank wrote on Nov 17^th, 2022 at 3:33pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 3:08pm:

Palestinians did not run off to join the Ottoman Empire from the other side of the world. They were literally born there. I can't believe you are having difficulty with this non-comparison Frank.

Also, Israel has over 2 million Palestinians under their control since they annexed the WB. As de-facto administrators of these lands and their people, they are obligated to either offer citizenship or grant them equal rights as citizens. Yes, in theory they can apply for citizenship, but in reality most of those who apply get rejected

That would be giving citizenship to Israel's sworn enemies who would not rest until it is destroyed.

Would you give your sworn, deadly enemies citizenship? Of course not.

So... maybe don't annex people's territory if you're not prepared to take responsibility for those people when they fall under your control?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued
Reply #232 - Nov 20^th, 2022 at 10:13am

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 2:27pm:

FD resorting to personal attacks - because thats literally all he has left. Pathetic.

I am accusing you of flip flopping, like a slippery Muslim, to avoid giving a straight answer. It's not my fault you are a stereotype Gandalf.

freediver wrote on Nov 12^th, 2022 at 4:12pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2022 at 12:44pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 1:42pm:

Like a stereotypical slippery Muslim, when we point out that a person born overseas has no automatic rights to citizenship, Gandalf pretends we are talking about people who were forced to leave the country against their will, and when we point out that no-one was dragged out of the country against their will, Gandalf pretends we are talking about an unborn fetus. How do you think your antics reflect on Islam and your fellow Muslims Gandalf? Do you think it makes people consider you trustworthy?

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:15pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 12:22pm:

Quote:

Quite an achievement for an unborn fetus wouldn't you say?

Unborn fetus's have no rights to citizenship under any law.

Nor are they capable of making decisions like voluntarily leaving one country for another - as you claimed.

Also, they do have rights to citizenship when they are born. And they have been born FD.

You are not actually that stupid Gandalf. I responded on the unborn fetus separately. Try again:

We didn't dump them. They left voluntarily.

Who, by the way, do you think we "dumped"?

And don't pretend I am talking about people who did not exist.

As for the unborn fetus, what citizenship rights do you think an unborn fetus has?

Silly FD.

We are talking about repatriating not just the adults, but also their children - many of whom were not born until after their parents left Australia - agreed?

Despite the fact that these children had absolutely no say in the foolish decision of their parents, you still pretend that these children "chose" to leave Australia - like their parents (by making no distinction between the two whatsoever)- thus justifying your BS claim that they should be denied. I take the view that unborn fetuses should not be blamed for the decisions of their parents. Radical, I know.

Either way, you still haven't answered the obvious dilemma I presented - if they're not Australia's problem - whose are they? Keeping in mind that the "state" they left to join no longer exists.

And you flip flop between them all like a slippery Muslim.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Frank

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Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued
Reply #233 - Nov 20^th, 2022 at 10:57am

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 18^th, 2022 at 9:35am:

Frank wrote on Nov 17^th, 2022 at 3:33pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 3:08pm:

Palestinians did not run off to join the Ottoman Empire from the other side of the world. They were literally born there. I can't believe you are having difficulty with this non-comparison Frank.

Also, Israel has over 2 million Palestinians under their control since they annexed the WB. As de-facto administrators of these lands and their people, they are obligated to either offer citizenship or grant them equal rights as citizens. Yes, in theory they can apply for citizenship, but in reality most of those who apply get rejected

That would be giving citizenship to Israel's sworn enemies who would not rest until it is destroyed.

Would you give your sworn, deadly enemies citizenship? Of course not.

So... maybe don't annex people's territory if you're not prepared to take responsibility for those people when they fall under your control?

Buffer zones against hostiles. You know it makes perfect sense.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued
Reply #234 - Nov 22^nd, 2022 at 10:25am

freediver wrote on Nov 20^th, 2022 at 10:13am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 2:27pm:

FD resorting to personal attacks - because thats literally all he has left. Pathetic.

I am accusing you of flip flopping, like a slippery Muslim, to avoid giving a straight answer. It's not my fault you are a stereotype Gandalf.

freediver wrote on Nov 12^th, 2022 at 4:12pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2022 at 12:44pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 1:42pm:

Like a stereotypical slippery Muslim, when we point out that a person born overseas has no automatic rights to citizenship, Gandalf pretends we are talking about people who were forced to leave the country against their will, and when we point out that no-one was dragged out of the country against their will, Gandalf pretends we are talking about an unborn fetus. How do you think your antics reflect on Islam and your fellow Muslims Gandalf? Do you think it makes people consider you trustworthy?

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:15pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 12:22pm:

Quote:

Quite an achievement for an unborn fetus wouldn't you say?

Unborn fetus's have no rights to citizenship under any law.

Nor are they capable of making decisions like voluntarily leaving one country for another - as you claimed.

Also, they do have rights to citizenship when they are born. And they have been born FD.

You are not actually that stupid Gandalf. I responded on the unborn fetus separately. Try again:

We didn't dump them. They left voluntarily.

Who, by the way, do you think we "dumped"?

And don't pretend I am talking about people who did not exist.

As for the unborn fetus, what citizenship rights do you think an unborn fetus has?

Silly FD.

We are talking about repatriating not just the adults, but also their children - many of whom were not born until after their parents left Australia - agreed?

Despite the fact that these children had absolutely no say in the foolish decision of their parents, you still pretend that these children "chose" to leave Australia - like their parents (by making no distinction between the two whatsoever)- thus justifying your BS claim that they should be denied. I take the view that unborn fetuses should not be blamed for the decisions of their parents. Radical, I know.

Either way, you still haven't answered the obvious dilemma I presented - if they're not Australia's problem - whose are they? Keeping in mind that the "state" they left to join no longer exists.

And you flip flop between them all like a slippery Muslim.

You think children should be punished for the crimes of their parents. Fact. You said "no-one was dragged out of the country against their will" - even though we are talking about children who were not even born at the time. Fact.

And before you say "not our problem", these are children who have no nationality except what they inherited from their parents (Australian). Australia let them slip through the cracks and leave Australia - despite there being a law forbidding them to go. Syria and Turkey - and whatever other countries who, through no fault of their own, are now burdened with them - can legitimately say that they are indeed our problem - because we were the ones that didn't stop them leaving - when we should have.

Again, why should they be any other country's burden - except Australia's?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Frank

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Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued
Reply #235 - Nov 22^nd, 2022 at 12:03pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2022 at 10:25am:

freediver wrote on Nov 20^th, 2022 at 10:13am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 2:27pm:

FD resorting to personal attacks - because thats literally all he has left. Pathetic.

I am accusing you of flip flopping, like a slippery Muslim, to avoid giving a straight answer. It's not my fault you are a stereotype Gandalf.

freediver wrote on Nov 12^th, 2022 at 4:12pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2022 at 12:44pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 1:42pm:

Like a stereotypical slippery Muslim, when we point out that a person born overseas has no automatic rights to citizenship, Gandalf pretends we are talking about people who were forced to leave the country against their will, and when we point out that no-one was dragged out of the country against their will, Gandalf pretends we are talking about an unborn fetus. How do you think your antics reflect on Islam and your fellow Muslims Gandalf? Do you think it makes people consider you trustworthy?

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:15pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 12:22pm:

Quote:

Quite an achievement for an unborn fetus wouldn't you say?

Unborn fetus's have no rights to citizenship under any law.

Nor are they capable of making decisions like voluntarily leaving one country for another - as you claimed.

Also, they do have rights to citizenship when they are born. And they have been born FD.

You are not actually that stupid Gandalf. I responded on the unborn fetus separately. Try again:

We didn't dump them. They left voluntarily.

Who, by the way, do you think we "dumped"?

And don't pretend I am talking about people who did not exist.

As for the unborn fetus, what citizenship rights do you think an unborn fetus has?

Silly FD.

We are talking about repatriating not just the adults, but also their children - many of whom were not born until after their parents left Australia - agreed?

Despite the fact that these children had absolutely no say in the foolish decision of their parents, you still pretend that these children "chose" to leave Australia - like their parents (by making no distinction between the two whatsoever)- thus justifying your BS claim that they should be denied. I take the view that unborn fetuses should not be blamed for the decisions of their parents. Radical, I know.

Either way, you still haven't answered the obvious dilemma I presented - if they're not Australia's problem - whose are they? Keeping in mind that the "state" they left to join no longer exists.

And you flip flop between them all like a slippery Muslim.

You think children should be punished for the crimes of their parents. Fact. You said "no-one was dragged out of the country against their will" - even though we are talking about children who were not even born at the time. Fact.

And before you say "not our problem", these are children who have no nationality except what they inherited from their parents (Australian). Australia let them slip through the cracks and leave Australia - despite there being a law forbidding them to go. Syria and Turkey - and whatever other countries who, through no fault of their own, are now burdened with them - can legitimately say that they are indeed our problem - because we were the ones that didn't stop them leaving - when we should have.

Again, why should they be any other country's burden - except Australia's?

Very creative jumping between the active and passive voices: Australia is responsible for these Muslims' actions of breaking Australian.
A very typically Muslim way of arse covering and avoiding responsibility. Bbwianesquely spineless.

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freediver

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Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued
Reply #236 - Nov 23^rd, 2022 at 7:13am

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2022 at 10:25am:

freediver wrote on Nov 20^th, 2022 at 10:13am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 2:27pm:

FD resorting to personal attacks - because thats literally all he has left. Pathetic.

I am accusing you of flip flopping, like a slippery Muslim, to avoid giving a straight answer. It's not my fault you are a stereotype Gandalf.

freediver wrote on Nov 12^th, 2022 at 4:12pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2022 at 12:44pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 1:42pm:

Like a stereotypical slippery Muslim, when we point out that a person born overseas has no automatic rights to citizenship, Gandalf pretends we are talking about people who were forced to leave the country against their will, and when we point out that no-one was dragged out of the country against their will, Gandalf pretends we are talking about an unborn fetus. How do you think your antics reflect on Islam and your fellow Muslims Gandalf? Do you think it makes people consider you trustworthy?

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 2:15pm:

freediver wrote on Oct 18^th, 2022 at 12:22pm:

Quote:

Quite an achievement for an unborn fetus wouldn't you say?

Unborn fetus's have no rights to citizenship under any law.

Nor are they capable of making decisions like voluntarily leaving one country for another - as you claimed.

Also, they do have rights to citizenship when they are born. And they have been born FD.

You are not actually that stupid Gandalf. I responded on the unborn fetus separately. Try again:

We didn't dump them. They left voluntarily.

Who, by the way, do you think we "dumped"?

And don't pretend I am talking about people who did not exist.

As for the unborn fetus, what citizenship rights do you think an unborn fetus has?

Silly FD.

We are talking about repatriating not just the adults, but also their children - many of whom were not born until after their parents left Australia - agreed?

Despite the fact that these children had absolutely no say in the foolish decision of their parents, you still pretend that these children "chose" to leave Australia - like their parents (by making no distinction between the two whatsoever)- thus justifying your BS claim that they should be denied. I take the view that unborn fetuses should not be blamed for the decisions of their parents. Radical, I know.

Either way, you still haven't answered the obvious dilemma I presented - if they're not Australia's problem - whose are they? Keeping in mind that the "state" they left to join no longer exists.

And you flip flop between them all like a slippery Muslim.

You think children should be punished for the crimes of their parents. Fact. You said "no-one was dragged out of the country against their will" - even though we are talking about children who were not even born at the time. Fact.

You keep changing your mind about what we are talking about Gandalf. You are playing the stereotype of the slippery Muslim, unable to stick to the one point for more than one response, just keep changing the topic and going round in circles.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued
Reply #237 - Nov 23^rd, 2022 at 3:26pm

Frank wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2022 at 12:03pm:

Very creative jumping between the active and passive voices: Australia is responsible for these Muslims' actions of breaking Australian.
A very typically Muslim way of arse covering and avoiding responsibility. Bbwianesquely spineless.

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. I'm not even part of your conversation but I still get included, hey, Soren? Appears you are scared of me for some inexplicable reason. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

In reality, IS never really existed except in the imaginations of some very strange thinking people - Muslim and Right-wing Westerners. Most people recognised that it didn't exist. Funny that. Do you have nightmares at night about people in far off countries murdering you, Soren? Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Baronvonrort Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 18762 Gender:	Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued Reply #238 - Nov 23^rd, 2022 at 3:36pm Brian Ross wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2022 at 3:26pm: In reality, IS never really existed except in the imaginations of some very strange thinking people - Muslim and Right-wing Westerners. It did exist ya dopey dim wit. No brain = no headaches for brian.
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Brian Ross

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Re: Australians in Syrian camps to be rescued
Reply #239 - Nov 23^rd, 2022 at 4:27pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2022 at 3:36pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2022 at 3:26pm:

In reality, IS never really existed except in the imaginations of some very strange thinking people - Muslim and Right-wing Westerners.

It did exist ya dopey dim wit.

No brain = no headaches for brian. Roll Eyes

Who recognised it, Baron? No state exists unless it is officially recognised by other states. Which states recognised it's existence, Wally? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Poll
Question: Is Soren wasting our time with constant ad hominem attacks?
* This poll has now closed *
Yes 1 (100.0%) No 0 (0.0%) Total votes: 1 « Last Modified by: Brian Ross on: Oct 23^rd, 2022 at 4:14pm »