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Poll closed Poll
Question: Will the referendum be voted in?
*** This poll has now closed ***


No    
  42 (75.0%)
Yes    
  14 (25.0%)




Total votes: 56
« Last Modified by: Redmond Neck on: Feb 25th, 2023 at 11:17am »

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The Aboriginal Voice referendum (Read 99860 times)
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #270 - Dec 1st, 2022 at 3:58am
 
Johnnie wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 10:47pm:
Without anyone being funded by the Commonwealth for the yes or no vote as was the case with the rigged poof vote watch the Boongs pull out limitless funds and anyone else will be called WACISTS


They don't need to when Labor is shamelessly pushing this idea....how many Outlander Importees out there who now vote consider this to be verbum dei?  Surely the government would never advocate anything that was wrong, no?

I'll be voting no ..... haven't met anyone yet who will be voting yes....

Being Aboriginal is not a job description... and this voice proposal is nothing more than an avenue for being paid just for being here = sitdown money just because you are Aboriginal.  It is 2022 - not 1787 - and your time of prospering just for just being Aboriginal is gone.....

No wonder the Pascolytes are breeding daily.... they want a cut of the spoils .....

Someone wrote on Twitter that it was essentially an Irish culture transplanted from genocide, language destruction, and social disintegration caused by invaders that created this land... that explains the better go than the Sassenach would have given had they totally 'owned' the Civilisation process...
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #271 - Dec 1st, 2022 at 7:47am
 
Voting in a referendum to amend the Constitution is a serious matter. Generally, it is taken too lightly, that is, without any consideration for the amendment in its ramifications. Politicians want power, and that is what a yes/no vote gives. They then get to compose the amendment among themselves. This arrangement is defended by saying it is the same as a Federal election where the vote is for a party, and not the details of their future legislation.

For my vote, this arrangement is not good enough to amend the basic document of the country's legality. If the parties were honest, they would present amendments for a yes/no vote, so that everyone knows how the Constitution will change.
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #272 - Dec 1st, 2022 at 2:50pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 10:04pm:
Very true the comment to Peterson.

"Stick to (1) Clinical psychology (2) Enlightening your students by reexplaining Jung's ideas, how you once enlightened me. I could really do without the aggressive rhetoric and pushing of a political counter-narrative. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way."

Outside clinical psychology and Jungian and Nietzschean philosophy, Jordan Peterson is a certifiable nutjob.


We agree.....politics  makes strange bedfellows...
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #273 - Dec 1st, 2022 at 3:24pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Nov 30th, 2022 at 9:48pm:


none so blind ...


Next you'll be telling me you have studied macroeconomics....

Quote:
So now there are classes of unemployed people?
 

Yes: unemployed, underemployed, and those who have given up looking for work and aren't even counted in the official statistics.

Quote:
he/she should 'please explain'?


He noted the failure of previous government policies to close the gap, and then let it slip; "we have a systems problem".... without being able to identify what that systems problem is. (It's the current neoliberal market system, stupid...)

Quote:
... the subject here is the mythical Aboriginal voice concept... not unemployment... you are fixated on disadvantage.... you know nothing about it IRL ....


addressed above.

And I already addressed the voice concept, commenting on Albo's proposed point #3. ..." advice to parliament" re black concerns, from local black communities.

Should be harmless enough.

Might even get the ALP to reverse the silly decision to cancel the cashless welfare card (as Price says); but hang on, a better idea is to remove the need for welfare altogether, with a Job Guarantee....
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #274 - Dec 1st, 2022 at 5:41pm
 
The campaign to oppose an Indigenous voice to parliament has ­received a $1m donation and attracted more than 35,000 supporters in recent months, as the right-wing activist group Advance and the Institute of Public Affairs join forces to lead the No vote push.

The Albanese government’s decision not to fund the Yes and No campaigns is expected to open the floodgates for private donations from corporate Australia, activist groups and wealthy backers.

Legislation setting out referendum machinery provisions ­tabled in parliament on Thursday prohibits foreign donations over $100 for either campaigns. It also establishes a financial dis­clo­sure framework to support “transparency and accountability”.


Advance executive director Matthew Sheahan said the No campaign had received “tens of thousands of grassroots donations” and was “building the most powerful centre-right movement this country has ever seen to fight the voice referendum”.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/right-digs-deep-to-fund-no-camp...

This is a litmus test for Australia sleepwalking into proggy hell or not. Here is a turning point where grassroots, ordinaries, the sensible CAN make themselves heard and can make a real impact on the direction Australia goes.
Conserve old growth forests, conserve venerable constitutions. If you are a TRUE Australian conservationist, valuing Australia's constitutional order of 122 years - far longer than most European constitutional orders - then contribute to the NO campaign.

Sensible Aborigines and all other sensible Australians are with you. This constitutional amendment must be defeated.
A yes vote would turn Australia into a Yugoslavia, a fractured and dysfunctional US, a permanent battleground.

NO.


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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #275 - Dec 1st, 2022 at 7:37pm
 
Frank wrote on Dec 1st, 2022 at 5:41pm:
The campaign to oppose an Indigenous voice to parliament has ­received a $1m donation and attracted more than 35,000 supporters in recent months, as the right-wing activist group Advance and the Institute of Public Affairs join forces to lead the No vote push.


Tonight in the Senate, Price wanted to amend the 'Territory Rights' Bill to ensure disabled people would be excluded from any future euthanasia legislation, citing 'human rights'.  (Her amendment failed).

Yet her Libertarian (IPA) individual rights/freedom view rejects the rights of NTs to develop their own euthanasia legislation, just as all the states have already done. The same IPA view which promotes freedom of the individual, and is against the idea of a consensus black voice.   Contradictions everywhere.






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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #276 - Dec 1st, 2022 at 7:55pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 1st, 2022 at 7:37pm:
Frank wrote on Dec 1st, 2022 at 5:41pm:
The campaign to oppose an Indigenous voice to parliament has ­received a $1m donation and attracted more than 35,000 supporters in recent months, as the right-wing activist group Advance and the Institute of Public Affairs join forces to lead the No vote push.


Tonight in the Senate, Price wanted to amend the 'Territory Rights' Bill to ensure disabled people would be excluded from any future euthanasia legislation, citing 'human rights'.  (Her amendment failed).

Yet her Libertarian (IPA) individual rights/freedom view rejects the rights of NTs to develop their own euthanasia legislation, just as all the states have already done. The same IPA view which promotes freedom of the individual, and is against the idea of a consensus black voice.   Contradictions everywhere.








Steady on, old boy - she just wants disabled people protected from predatory euthanasia or from simply being disposed of as a burden on the state ...  what is wrong with that?

There is zero possibility of a black consensus vote - they don't even talk to the river coons ten miles away from here (ours are coastal) .... was chatting with my Abo hairdresser today, and he said exactly the same without any prompting.... how do they ever expect to get a consensus when they are 1000 odd little groups and they are NOT the same as one another by their lights.

Amazing - I've handed you the Goat Island reality - so many 'outsiders' on the land council to control it... and rejected by the true locals.... and you still go on as if there is some possibility of a consensus of like-minded Aborigines all across Australia.... HE said today that the Real Blacks didn't know WTF this lot are talking about... and couldn't care less.
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #277 - Dec 1st, 2022 at 9:25pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 1st, 2022 at 7:55pm:
Steady on, old boy - she just wants disabled people protected from predatory euthanasia or from simply being disposed of as a burden on the state ...  what is wrong with that?


As the Senate agreed, the NT government should be free to develop its own euthanasia legislation.

But the issue does bring up the contradictions in the Oz federation: I would abolish the states (and territories) in favor of regional governments dealing with regional issues only.  Gough was on the right track.....

Quote:
There is zero possibility of a black consensus vote - they don't even talk to the river coons ten miles away from here (ours are coastal) .... was chatting with my Abo hairdresser today, and he said exactly the same without any prompting.... how do they ever expect to get a consensus when they are 1000 odd little groups and they are NOT the same as one another by their lights.


The Uluru Statement from the Heart, agreed after much consultation by blacks among blacks, suggests otherwise. Are there many blacks who are offended by the Statement? 

Quote:
Amazing - I've handed you the Goat Island reality - so many 'outsiders' on the land council to control it... and rejected by the true locals....


That's true, you know my opinion on "land rights".  I don't know what the Statement would have to say about that particular example.

Quote:
and you still go on as if there is some possibility of a consensus of like-minded Aborigines all across Australia.... HE said today that the Real Blacks didn't know WTF this lot are talking about... and couldn't care less.


Ask him about his views on the Statement from the Heart.

My view is......but my view doesn't matter when it comes to those blacks wanting to develop a consensus voice, as revealed in the Statement from the Heart.
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Frank
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #278 - Dec 1st, 2022 at 9:33pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 1st, 2022 at 9:25pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 1st, 2022 at 7:55pm:
Steady on, old boy - she just wants disabled people protected from predatory euthanasia or from simply being disposed of as a burden on the state ...  what is wrong with that?


As the Senate agreed, the NT government should be free to develop its own euthanasia legislation.

But the issue does bring up the contradictions in the Oz federation: I would abolish the states (and territories) in favor of regional governments dealing with regional issues only.  Gough was on the right track.....

Quote:
There is zero possibility of a black consensus vote - they don't even talk to the river coons ten miles away from here (ours are coastal) .... was chatting with my Abo hairdresser today, and he said exactly the same without any prompting.... how do they ever expect to get a consensus when they are 1000 odd little groups and they are NOT the same as one another by their lights.


The Uluru Statement from the Heart, agreed after much consultation by blacks among blacks, suggests otherwise. Are there many blacks who are offended by the Statement? 

Quote:
Amazing - I've handed you the Goat Island reality - so many 'outsiders' on the land council to control it... and rejected by the true locals....


That's true, you know my opinion on "land rights".  I don't know what the Statement would have to say about that particular example.

Quote:
and you still go on as if there is some possibility of a consensus of like-minded Aborigines all across Australia.... HE said today that the Real Blacks didn't know WTF this lot are talking about... and couldn't care less.


Ask him about his views on the Statement from the Heart.

My view is......but my view doesn't matter when it comes to those blacks wanting to develop a consensus voice, as revealed in the Statement from the Heart.

Bbwianesque Bbollocks.

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #279 - Dec 3rd, 2022 at 6:17pm
 
Dear Frank,
I’m no stranger to attacks from angry men who claim to speak on behalf of Aboriginal Australians. 
For a long time now I've been attacked, abused, threatened and defamed for my views by an Aboriginal elite.
While the 'Voice' campaigners say this referendum is all about “bringing people together” their actions speak otherwise.
It seems for all their empty talk of diversity, tolerance, reconciliation and equality, when an Aboriginal woman comes along with views they don’t like, it all goes out the window. 
To them, it’s a free pass to use all the vile and racist insults and abuse they like, no repercussions.
I’ve been told by a supposed Wurundjeri elder that I deserve to die a slow and painful death, called an 'Oxygen Thief' by a man who is often referred to as an Aboriginal leader in Alice Springs, I've faced countless public personal attacks.
All for demanding better leadership from them regarding the violence and abuse suffered by Aboriginal women and children.
Do they still not understand why I don’t support an idea that would empower misogynistic bullies like these men and enshrine their power in our national constitution? Really?
That’s why I’ve made no secret about my opposition to Labor’s ‘Voice to Parliament’.
It’s racially divisive, it’s undemocratic, it will wield undue influence over the parliament of the day, it will do nothing for the REAL problems facing Indigenous Communities.
It will be run by people who believe it’s acceptable to use vile abuse, bullying and threats against those they disagree with.
Their comments prove what you and I already know, that just like the rest of Australia, Indigenous Australians don’t all share the same views. Despite common belief in inner-city suburbs and parliamentary buildings, Aboriginal people and cultures are not all the same.
We come from different backgrounds, cultures and families with different traditions, ideas, beliefs and attitudes.

The reason their Voice will do nothing for the REAL problems, is because the REAL problems vary between communities.
The left likes to use the Canadian term “First Nations” to describe us. Well if we are a collection of nations, they’re obviously not the same one.

Aboriginal “nations” are unique, individual, special.
No single voice could possibly speak for all of us, the same way no voice could speak for all Asians, Europeans, Africans, South Americans or North Americans.
No one understands this better than the Nationals and the Country Liberal Party.
We understand that Aboriginal Australians are unique individuals with plenty to offer beyond their skin colour or heritage.
We understand that there is plenty that connects Australians, but we’ve always celebrated the uniqueness of local communities.
We’ve honoured what makes our towns and suburbs special, while recognising the links that bind us together as a nation.
That’s why we will oppose the ‘Voice to Parliament’.
It is belittling, insulting and racist to suggest we’re all the same, we think the same way and can be represented by a single, unelected Voice in parliament. 
We’ll oppose the voice because we want REAL actions and REAL solutions to the REAL problems.
Yours for REAL solutions,

Jacinta Nampijinpa Price
Senator for the Northern Territory
------------------------------------------------

Price is right!!


The idiocy of the Voice is that it treats ALL non-Aborigines as having having sufficient voice through the various democratic mechanisms and ONLY Aborigines have no voice or are excluded from these mechanisms and channels - despite the 1100 organisations and 200 programs devoted exclusively to Aborigines.
Do ALL other Australians have a voice to the exclusion of Aborigines??  It's a preposterous lie, the need for a race based Aboriginal voice.





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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #280 - Dec 3rd, 2022 at 9:19pm
 
"It will be run by people who believe it’s acceptable to use vile abuse, bullying and threats against those they disagree with. "

Those are the kinds I mean by 'Silverbacks' - the big gorilla on the rampage and taking power and control.... exactly as conveyed to me by an Aboriginal woman who used the term 'standover' that she could see taking over this 'voice'.

The Aboriginal women know the truth..... the blokes in many cases seem to be lagging behind... as I said to Warren Mundine... 'ask the victims' ..... that's where your truth resides....
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #281 - Dec 3rd, 2022 at 9:34pm
 
Albo and Plybersek will be going to keep the yes vote going after the Boongs leave their kids to sleep in skips only to be crushed to death while the Elders keep drinking in the park opposite like in Pt Lincoln last year.
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #282 - Dec 4th, 2022 at 9:53am
 
Frank wrote on Dec 1st, 2022 at 9:33pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 1st, 2022 at 9:25pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 1st, 2022 at 7:55pm:
Steady on, old boy - she just wants disabled people protected from predatory euthanasia or from simply being disposed of as a burden on the state ...  what is wrong with that?


As the Senate agreed, the NT government should be free to develop its own euthanasia legislation.

But the issue does bring up the contradictions in the Oz federation: I would abolish the states (and territories) in favor of regional governments dealing with regional issues only.  Gough was on the right track.....

Quote:
There is zero possibility of a black consensus vote - they don't even talk to the river coons ten miles away from here (ours are coastal) .... was chatting with my Abo hairdresser today, and he said exactly the same without any prompting.... how do they ever expect to get a consensus when they are 1000 odd little groups and they are NOT the same as one another by their lights.


The Uluru Statement from the Heart, agreed after much consultation by blacks among blacks, suggests otherwise. Are there many blacks who are offended by the Statement? 

Quote:
Amazing - I've handed you the Goat Island reality - so many 'outsiders' on the land council to control it... and rejected by the true locals....


That's true, you know my opinion on "land rights".  I don't know what the Statement would have to say about that particular example.

Quote:
and you still go on as if there is some possibility of a consensus of like-minded Aborigines all across Australia.... HE said today that the Real Blacks didn't know WTF this lot are talking about... and couldn't care less.


Ask him about his views on the Statement from the Heart.

My view is......but my view doesn't matter when it comes to those blacks wanting to develop a consensus voice, as revealed in the Statement from the Heart.

Bbwianesque Bbollocks.




Er Frank.... that's not debate.

Re a 'black voice', as manifested by the Uluru Statement, Noel Pearson today identified the problem of culture wars carried on by culture vultures on all sides. 

He also noted the great lie of the IPA that mere recognition of indigeneity will divide the nation. 

His idea is simple: black Australians are indigenous Australians, as well as being humans like everyone else (in Oz and the world).  He spoke of
'multiple identities' ....he himself is Lutheran!

So, we know the Uluru 'voice' is concerned about the indigenous gap.

A Job Guarantee will eradicate it, though the 'voice' doesn't see it yet; Pearson knows the poverty gap is destructive in all communities, indigenous and non-indigenous.

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #283 - Dec 4th, 2022 at 10:32am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 4th, 2022 at 9:53am:
Frank wrote on Dec 1st, 2022 at 9:33pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 1st, 2022 at 9:25pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 1st, 2022 at 7:55pm:
Steady on, old boy - she just wants disabled people protected from predatory euthanasia or from simply being disposed of as a burden on the state ...  what is wrong with that?


As the Senate agreed, the NT government should be free to develop its own euthanasia legislation.

But the issue does bring up the contradictions in the Oz federation: I would abolish the states (and territories) in favor of regional governments dealing with regional issues only.  Gough was on the right track.....

Quote:
There is zero possibility of a black consensus vote - they don't even talk to the river coons ten miles away from here (ours are coastal) .... was chatting with my Abo hairdresser today, and he said exactly the same without any prompting.... how do they ever expect to get a consensus when they are 1000 odd little groups and they are NOT the same as one another by their lights.


The Uluru Statement from the Heart, agreed after much consultation by blacks among blacks, suggests otherwise. Are there many blacks who are offended by the Statement? 

Quote:
Amazing - I've handed you the Goat Island reality - so many 'outsiders' on the land council to control it... and rejected by the true locals....


That's true, you know my opinion on "land rights".  I don't know what the Statement would have to say about that particular example.

Quote:
and you still go on as if there is some possibility of a consensus of like-minded Aborigines all across Australia.... HE said today that the Real Blacks didn't know WTF this lot are talking about... and couldn't care less.


Ask him about his views on the Statement from the Heart.

My view is......but my view doesn't matter when it comes to those blacks wanting to develop a consensus voice, as revealed in the Statement from the Heart.

Bbwianesque Bbollocks.




Er Frank.... that's not debate.

Re a 'black voice', as manifested by the Uluru Statement, Noel Pearson today identified the problem of culture wars carried on by culture vultures on all sides. 

He also noted the great lie of the IPA that mere recognition of indigeneity will divide the nation. 

His idea is simple: black Australians are indigenous Australians, as well as being humans like everyone else (in Oz and the world).  He spoke of
'multiple identities' ....he himself is Lutheran!

So, we know the Uluru 'voice' is concerned about the indigenous gap.

A Job Guarantee will eradicate it, though the 'voice' doesn't see it yet; Pearson knows the poverty gap is destructive in all communities, indigenous and non-indigenous.


There IS a job guarantee for any Aborigine who wants a job and is capable of holding one down.
Only unemployable Aborigines are unemployed. 

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #284 - Dec 4th, 2022 at 11:02am
 
Frank wrote on Dec 4th, 2022 at 10:32am:
There is a Job Guarantee for blacks now.
Only unemployable Aborigines are unemployed. 


(quick google):

People also ask:

Why is Aboriginal unemployment so high in Australia?

Aboriginal people have much lower employment rates than other Australians due to factors including education, training and skill levels, poorer health, limited market opportunities, discrimination, and lower levels of job retention.

Nothing about "unemployable".

All about adverse socio-economic conditions.

["discrimination": the fact is long-term unemployed are discriminated against.] 


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