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Poll closed Poll
Question: Will the referendum be voted in?
*** This poll has now closed ***


No    
  42 (75.0%)
Yes    
  14 (25.0%)




Total votes: 56
« Last Modified by: Redmond Neck on: Feb 25th, 2023 at 11:17am »

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The Aboriginal Voice referendum (Read 99644 times)
SadKangaroo
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #360 - Dec 9th, 2022 at 3:00pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 8th, 2022 at 3:06pm:
..... sandy beaches, drinking rum every night.... catching fish on the evening tide.... having a harem of sheilas to root.... no official interference ..... housing and healthcare provided free.... plane flights for serious medicals..... all free.. royalties coming in along with the dimi/rent (called the dole when it applies to White Fullahs and their hangers-on) ........ no taxes to pay ...... freedom to choose whatever you want to do on any given day .....

Only a White Man or a Yellow Man would want to ruin such a perfect lifestyle......


Bitch is jealous lol...
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #361 - Dec 9th, 2022 at 6:10pm
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Dec 9th, 2022 at 3:00pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 8th, 2022 at 3:06pm:
..... sandy beaches, drinking rum every night.... catching fish on the evening tide.... having a harem of sheilas to root.... no official interference ..... housing and healthcare provided free.... plane flights for serious medicals..... all free.. royalties coming in along with the dimi/rent (called the dole when it applies to White Fullahs and their hangers-on) ........ no taxes to pay ...... freedom to choose whatever you want to do on any given day .....

Only a White Man or a Yellow Man would want to ruin such a perfect lifestyle......


Bitch is jealous lol...


Formulating my land claim as we speak..... Northern New England NSW all the way down to Maitland in the Hunter Valley and points north..... my ancestors wandered over every part of that.... fair claim .... and I've got genealogy to prove it - not just rumours... then there's Queensland.....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Johnnie
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #362 - Dec 9th, 2022 at 6:30pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 8th, 2022 at 8:15pm:
Johnnie wrote on Dec 8th, 2022 at 3:02pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 8th, 2022 at 10:51am:
Johnnie wrote on Dec 7th, 2022 at 9:54pm:
I vote for Abbos to go and get fkkn jobs that's what i would vote for with an unemployment rate at an all time low we need them to get off their black asses and do some fkkn work and send their kids to fkkn school and not leave them to sleep in fkkn skips while the Elders get fkkn pizzed as parots in the fkkn park.



Just to keep you in touch with reality:

https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/careersandeducation/quarter-of-a-million-unemplo...

Quarter of a million unemployed young Britons are planning to NEVER get a job, survey shows

"Almost half of those unemployed said they felt their education had not given them the skills to get a job, while 68 per cent of all young people reported feeling ill-equipped or not confident in their skill set when looking for a job.

City and Guilds CEO Kirstie Donnelly said those young people who face 'additional challenges' are falling behind their peers.

She said: 'High youth unemployment has been an issue for more than a decade and the pandemic was just another challenge heaped onto an already creaking system that makes it incredibly difficult for young people to convert their aspirations into good jobs.

'In addition, our research found that young people who have faced additional challenges, such as young carers, care and prison leavers and those who come from less affluent families, are falling way behind their peers in the labour market at the earliest stage of their careers.

'The current system is baking in inequality and preventing millions of young people from meeting their potential."


This in the UK which also has a listed unemployment rate of 3.6% (like Oz), so-called "low unemployment". 

You are ignoring the nature of the current job market, and its demands for high skilled jobs.

Plus, the "low unemployment" stats are a sham: the number of underemployed and people who  have given up looking for work and aren't even counted in the stats, has never been higher.

Which gets us back to blacks in Oz, and the chances they have in this current high-skills-requirement labour market.

Quote:
VOTE NO


OK, but either way the gap will remain to be closed.


About 18 onths ago the government scrapped all Abbo work programmes mainly in remote areas, at the same time they scrapped work for the dole for them because after decades and hundreds of millons of dollars they finally realised they simply don't turn up and I could have told them that from day 1, they are a lazy people, they can't even get up and get their kids to the provided for schools and closing this gap thing starts right there and it starts with them.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

No more handouts, no more mollycoddling, get on their cases and get their asses into gear, how and why do we contunue to support 250,000 plus Abbos who choose to live in places where there are zero jobs.


You completely ignored the situation (described in the link) of white youths in the UK and Oz who find they are not qualified enough to get a job in the present labour market.

Obviously the situation for blacks in dysfunctional families is even worse....




I ignored it because it's not relevent, what is relevent is being lazy is not a disease or some other reason not to work, they just need to be rounded up and reprogrammed because we wern't put on Earth to support these bums.
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AusGeoff
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #363 - Dec 11th, 2022 at 5:37am
 

Oh dear...

Why has the South Australian government chosen a representation
of a giant vagina as a memorial to 100 Aboriginal soldiers who fought
in two world wars?

...

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Frank
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #364 - Dec 11th, 2022 at 6:31am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 9th, 2022 at 12:15pm:
Frank wrote on Dec 8th, 2022 at 8:23pm:
The bigger issue is that the voice looks like a throwback to less enlightened times. It will suffer from the same democratic deficit that once existed in this country under the authoritarian rule of colonial British governors. But this time, those exercising unaccountable power will be black, not white.
Chris Merrit


This referendum must fail.



You have brought this on yourselves.

https://thenewdaily.com.au/finance/2022/12/08/voice-an-economic-issue-kohler/

Alan Kohler: Why the Voice is an economic as well as moral issue

Kohler well knows the vicious outcomes of your current Thatcherite neoliberal market ideology which is totally devoid of ANY "moral" considerations. 


What is the "moral" consideration for a voice based on race in the constitution?

The "unacceptable disadvantage and poverty in a rich country" is not evenly distributed. Those who remain in remote shanty towns with nothing happening but dust and heat and thus drink, fight and neglect their children are poorer and more 'disadvantaged'. They are not even 'looking after country'.  Those who moved away from the  middle of nowhere, work and bring up healthy children who go to school while they are at work do well.

No Voice will ever make the former behaviour viable. And you do not need a Voice to parliament to tell you that Aborigines cannot maintain their tribal kinship customs of sharing all resources in remote deserts UNLESS they give up all Western ways and truly live in those places as they did before 1788.

When the tribal way of living is impossible, Aborigines must move on and adapt. When mines, power plants, car plants close, communities must adapt. There is no good in staying, drinking fighting all day and neglecting the kids while being sorry for the closures. Same with Aborigines, same with everyone. Just because Aborigines were here first and hadn't changed for 40 thousand years does not mean they don't have to change now.
No Voice will ever come up with any other magic solution.



A voice to be heeded: "the 280-page Langton-Calma report sets out in vast detail how the voice would bypass the one vote, one value democratic structure but is silent on why our nation would consider doing such a thing."
Another: "you are racist if do not support a race based change to the constitution but not a racist if you support a race based change".

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« Last Edit: Dec 11th, 2022 at 7:13am by Frank »  

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thegreatdivide
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #365 - Dec 11th, 2022 at 11:09am
 
Johnnie wrote on Dec 9th, 2022 at 6:30pm:
I ignored it because it's not relevent,


The job market not relevant? You demand abos get jobs, and you say the state of the job market in not relevant...

Quote:
what is relevent is being lazy is not a disease or some other reason not to work, they just need to be rounded up and reprogrammed because we wern't put on Earth to support these bums.


Blaming the unemployed for the existence of long-term unemployment - to be expected from those ignorant of macroeconomic realities, or self-interestedly captured by Thatcherite  nonsense re "other peoples' money".
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #366 - Dec 11th, 2022 at 11:36am
 
Frank wrote on Dec 11th, 2022 at 6:31am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 9th, 2022 at 12:15pm:
Frank wrote on Dec 8th, 2022 at 8:23pm:
The bigger issue is that the voice looks like a throwback to less enlightened times. It will suffer from the same democratic deficit that once existed in this country under the authoritarian rule of colonial British governors. But this time, those exercising unaccountable power will be black, not white.
Chris Merrit


This referendum must fail.



You have brought this on yourselves.

https://thenewdaily.com.au/finance/2022/12/08/voice-an-economic-issue-kohler/

Alan Kohler: Why the Voice is an economic as well as moral issue

Kohler well knows the vicious outcomes of your current Thatcherite neoliberal market ideology which is totally devoid of ANY "moral" considerations. 


What is the "moral" consideration for a voice based on race in the constitution?


The "moral" issue is freedom from entrenched poverty, and in this case, the eradication of the gap. Most Australians want to eradicate the gap.

Quote:
The "unacceptable disadvantage and poverty in a rich country" is not evenly distributed.


Here we go, finding excuses for the "deceptive, generational, chronic " disadvantage in the democracies. 

Of course poverty is not "evenly distributed", but black ghetto communities are real enough in Oz (and the US, in the black inner-city suburbs). 

Quote:
Those who remain in remote shanty towns with nothing happening but dust and heat and thus drink, fight and neglect their children are poorer and more 'disadvantaged'. They are not even 'looking after country'.  Those who moved away from the  middle of nowhere, work and bring up healthy children who go to school while they are at work do well.


Ha.. the old "just pack up and leave" argument; that's what happened in Detroit, leading to its population falling from 1.8 million in 1960, to 700,000 now., as Asian car manufacturing destroyed Detroit's wealth, and the more financially able just left. 

Quote:
No Voice will ever make the former behaviour viable.



I agree, though Kohler is taking a more nuanced view than either of us about the voice.

Quote:
And you do not need a Voice to parliament to tell you that Aborigines cannot maintain their tribal kinship customs of sharing all resources in remote deserts UNLESS they give up all Western ways and truly live in those places as they did before 1788.


Again I agree; and I suspect Kohler doesn't realize that much (he's an economist/ investment adviser, not a sociologist).

Quote:
When the tribal way of living is impossible, Aborigines must move on and adapt. When mines, power plants, car plants close, communities must adapt.


Interesting that you raised that point: notice how poorly even formerly wealthy white communities 'adapted' (eg Detroit) when geopolitical and associated macro-economic circumstances changed. Western nations are still ravaged by the "1st world rust belt".


Quote:
There is no good in staying, drinking fighting all day and neglecting the kids while being sorry for the closures. Same with Aborigines, same with everyone. Just because Aborigines were here first and hadn't changed for 40 thousand years does not mean they don't have to change now.
No Voice will ever come up with any other magic solution.


And the current global neoliberal economic system hasn't yet eradicated the "1st world rust belt"...which in one reason why Trump was elected in 2017.

Quote:
A voice to be heeded: "the 280-page Langton-Calma report sets out in vast detail how the voice would bypass the one vote, one value democratic structure but is silent on why our nation would consider doing such a thing."
Another: "you are racist if do not support a race based change to the constitution but not a racist if you support a race based change".


Yes, confusion all around; all because no-one has yet worked out how to eradicate the "1st world rust belt", much less so than the "the gap" in Oz.
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #367 - Dec 12th, 2022 at 6:38pm
 
A group of traditional custodians opposed to a $US4.2bn ($6.2b) urea project on Western Australia’s northwest coast will warn potential replacements for collapsed contractor Clough that they face legal risks if they step in.

Save Our Songlines, a group of Aboriginal activists who have been campaigning against Perdaman Chemicals’ plans for a new plant on WA’s rock art-rich Burrup Peninsula, has written an open letter of warning to potential construction contractors and investors about the project.

Clough was set to partner with Italian firm Saipem in the design and construction of the Perdaman plant, but the company collapsed into administration last week.

The Save Our Songlines letter, signed by Indigenous women Raelene Cooper and Josie Alec, warns that the group continues to object to the plant’s construction.

“Undertaking the construction of the project at its planned location presents significant cultural, financial and reputational risks of which potential contracting parties and investors should be aware,” the letter reads.

The current construction plans for the urea plant will impact on several pieces of rock art at the site, with Save Our Songlines arguing that it should instead be shifted to the nearby Maitland Industrial Estate. They also say the project should be built to use renewable energy, rather than gas.

“The construction of the project on Murujuga will have a significant and permanent impact on our cultural heritage, and the World Heritage values of the area,” the letter says.

Save Our Songlines is a breakaway group from Murujuga Aboriginal Corp, the body that was formed to represent the traditional owner groups from the area. Ms Cooper and Ms Alec argue that MAC is too close to the major companies working in the area and has not been able to have a sufficient say over the level of industrial activity in the area.

In the letter, the pair compared the project to Rio Tinto’s destruction of the Juukan Gorge rock shelters, noting that the Perdaman project had been granted approvals under state and federal laws that proved inadequate at protecting that site.

They say the Perdaman project does not have the free, prior and informed consent of traditional owners and custodians.

“We believe the project is proceeding in breach of our human rights under the United Nations Declaration on the Rights and Interests of Indigenous Peoples, and have written to the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights in relation to the project,” they wrote.

The group has engaged the Environmental Defenders Office to provide legal advice.

Save Our Songlines has already convinced federal Environment Minister Tanya Plibersek to launch a review of Perdaman’s plans and the broader wave of industrial developments in the area under section 10 of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Heritage Protection Act. That review received more than 750 submissions, with the government-appointed investigator now preparing a report on the plans.

Perdaman founder Vikas Rambal on Monday said his company had all relevant approvals for the project and had engaged with traditional owners for the past four years. Last week, Mr Rambal said the collapse of Clough would delay the go-ahead for the project by two or three months, but said it was not a crippling blow.

“We are not giving up, but we are very realistic that we need a couple of months to resolve alternative solutions for the contractor,” Mr Rambal said.

The Perdaman project is expected to produce more than two million tonnes a year of urea, a fertiliser widely used for food production. In 2018, Perdaman secured a deal that would supply it with gas from Woodside Energy for 20 years.

The massive project is expected to create up to 2000 jobs.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/mining-energy/indigenous-activists-war...

So it's TWO Aborigines with a PO box for an 'organisation' called Safe our Snoglines (sic). Brilliant.



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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #368 - Dec 13th, 2022 at 11:54am
 
Frank wrote on Dec 12th, 2022 at 6:38pm:
"arguing that it should instead be shifted to the nearby Maitland Industrial Estate. They also say the project should be built to use renewable energy, rather than gas."


What's wrong with that?

Project unviable if those requirements are met?


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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #369 - Dec 13th, 2022 at 2:07pm
 
Albo has confirmed that the "actual model" of how The Voice would operate will NOT be decided until AFTER the referendum.

Stuff that.

This approach is dumb and may in fact lead to a "NO" vote getting up.

What a dumbarse Albo is. Shocked

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The 2025 election could be a shocker.
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Frank
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #370 - Dec 13th, 2022 at 2:21pm
 
Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 13th, 2022 at 2:07pm:
Albo has confirmed that the "actual model" of how The Voice would operate will NOT be decided until AFTER the referendum.

Stuff that.

This approach is dumb and may in fact lead to a "NO" vote getting up.

What a dumbarse Albo is. Shocked


Repeating his small target election strategy.

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Frank
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #371 - Dec 13th, 2022 at 3:26pm
 
According to RA, ‘Too often, our history covers up the brutal nature of colonisation, and leaves out the resilience and contribution by First Peoples. The effective advocacy by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples and the three decades of the reconciliation process, have all been part of a relearning of Australian history in which the myth of peaceful settlement by courageous European pioneers is making way for a more truthful representation…. A national effort across these areas should involve collaborating to re-story, reconcile and heal, including through local reconciliation committees, advocacy, and partnerships across the Australian community. Such community truth-telling can underpin and support a widespread movement of truth-telling and build understanding of our shared history, (Truth Telling and Reconciliation, RA 2018 p.19). For RA ‘truth-telling’ seems to mean unequivocal acceptance of their version of Australian history.

In 2016 the Centre for Independent Studies published a report which found that there are 1,082 separate programs addressing one aspect or another of Aboriginal disadvantage (Mapping the Indigenous program and funding maze, Sarah Hudson).

Over the last decade, the Productivity Commission’s Indigenous Expenditure Reports (IER) have consistently shown that total Commonwealth, state and territory government per capita expenditure on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people is approximately double the per capita expenditure on non-Indigenous Australians, (Indigenous Affairs 2019/20 Budget overview. James Haughton). There are many reasons for greater allocation of financial resources to Aboriginal citizens than to the rest of the population. The most obvious is that of need. Aboriginal disadvantage is well documented. Not so well documented are the thousands of projects which are designed to remedy the inequality. In its 2019/20 report the National Indigenous Australians Agency claimed that, ‘The NIAA funds more than 1,100 organisations through the Indigenous Advancement Strategy (IAS) and Aboriginals Benefit Account (ABA) to deliver over 2,000 activities to improve the lives of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. The majority of these funds are to Indigenous organisations’. It also found that, ‘93 per cent of relevant IAS activities were assessed as having core service delivery which met or exceeded requirements’. One might ask why, if the NIAA is doing so well, it had such a poor impact upon the ‘closing the gap’ targets?

There is rarely any serious media investigation of the thousands of organisations which all claim they are doing a great job on indigenous matters. Nor is there any real acknowledgement of the billions that the government has poured into helping remote disadvantaged Aboriginal communities. Instead we get an unending litany of complaints about governmental failures and we get people like Chelsea Watego being paid by you to tell all of us what a racist society her people have to live in. The idea that establishing yet another organisation is going to solve all the problems in Aboriginal society which the thousands of other schemes have failed to remedy, without working out why the previous ones fail, is stupid beyond belief.
...
Reconciliation requires a genuine two way acknowledgement of past injustices and present problems. What we have at the moment is a clamorous call for non-Aboriginal Australia to accept a distorted and one-sided version of the sources of the current problems in Aboriginal Australia. ..... our failure to have a genuinely open debate on the source of current problems in Aboriginal society will ensure that establishing yet another organisation to solve those problems will achieve nothing.
https://www.spectator.com.au/2022/12/reconciliation-or-capitulation/

Look at moe, Kimmie, look at moi, I have one word for you.

Corruption.
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #372 - Dec 13th, 2022 at 4:18pm
 
Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 13th, 2022 at 2:07pm:
Albo has confirmed that the "actual model" of how The Voice would operate will NOT be decided until AFTER the referendum.

Stuff that.

This approach is dumb and may in fact lead to a "NO" vote getting up.

What a dumbarse Albo is. Shocked


Funny, this was the exact approach taken when the High Court was established in the Constitution.  Why was it OK then and now isn't OK?  Is it because the recipients of this approach are Indigenous Australians and those who received the benefits of the High Court were white fellas?  Oh, dearie, dearie, me, you're a suspicious chap, Nemo.  How are Indigenous Australians less trust worthy than White Fellas?  How are White Fellas more trustworthy?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #373 - Dec 13th, 2022 at 4:22pm
 
Frank wrote on Dec 13th, 2022 at 3:26pm:
Reconciliation requires a genuine two way acknowledgement of past injustices and present problems. What we have at the moment is a clamorous call for non-Aboriginal Australia to accept a distorted and one-sided version of the sources of the current problems in Aboriginal Australia. ..... our failure to have a genuinely open debate on the source of current problems in Aboriginal society will ensure that establishing yet another organisation to solve those problems will achieve nothing.
https://www.spectator.com.au/2022/12/reconciliation-or-capitulation/


The Indigenous Australians have given, more than enough, to White Fellas.  They have been forced to surrender their land, their culture, their families, their children, all to the benefit of the White Fellas and now you're demanding more.  Oh, dearie, dearie, me, how typical of a fascist Racist like you, Soren.  Why don't you go back to the Denmake, where you belong?  You really aren't welcome here.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #374 - Dec 13th, 2022 at 9:55pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 13th, 2022 at 4:22pm:
Frank wrote on Dec 13th, 2022 at 3:26pm:
Reconciliation requires a genuine two way acknowledgement of past injustices and present problems. What we have at the moment is a clamorous call for non-Aboriginal Australia to accept a distorted and one-sided version of the sources of the current problems in Aboriginal Australia. ..... our failure to have a genuinely open debate on the source of current problems in Aboriginal society will ensure that establishing yet another organisation to solve those problems will achieve nothing.
https://www.spectator.com.au/2022/12/reconciliation-or-capitulation/


The Indigenous Australians have given, more than enough, to White Fellas.  They have been forced to surrender their land, their culture, their families, their children, all to the benefit of the White Fellas and now you're demanding more.  Oh, dearie, dearie, me, how typical of a fascist Racist like you, Soren.  Why don't you go back to the Denmake, where you belong?  You really aren't welcome here.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


  Cheesy Cheesy
You are an ignorant, shifty and smug idiot, Tut-tutsie Bbwian.

What about all the post-war European immigrants and all the non-white non-Aborigines, ijit?? Forty percent of the population is overseas born or has at least one parent born overseas. What price do you want to extract from them for the sins of YOUR fathers?

Also, being the shifty and inarticulate bozo you are, you avoid putting the case FOR the voice and repeat, like someone with Tourette Syndrome, the same idiotic 'you fascist racist' nervous tick. Would you say to Aborigines or Arabs, Chinese, Sudanese, Vietnamese who oppose the Voice to go back where they belong? 

Someone supposedly educated like you would do better than repeat the same low-brow nervous tick. But you aren't educated or articulate, you are eyewateringly stupid and bog-thick so you just give us the same old moronic Tut-tutsie, Bbwian.
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