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Poll closed Poll
Question: Will the referendum be voted in?
*** This poll has now closed ***


No    
  42 (75.0%)
Yes    
  14 (25.0%)




Total votes: 56
« Last Modified by: Redmond Neck on: Feb 25th, 2023 at 11:17am »

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The Aboriginal Voice referendum (Read 99583 times)
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #390 - Dec 16th, 2022 at 8:35pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 16th, 2022 at 3:06pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 16th, 2022 at 2:20pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 16th, 2022 at 12:17pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 16th, 2022 at 12:05pm:
Frank wrote on Dec 14th, 2022 at 1:16pm:
Cavemen had the same natural resources at their disposal as we have today, and the difference between their standard of living and ours is a difference between the knowledge they could bring to bear on those resources and the knowledge used today.
Thomas Sowell




Comparative Prosperity 101 - a Grappler Free University concept developed by Professor Grappler...


I see you haven't learn one thing I have brought to your attention,  concerning how money is created.

sigh...but the flat earth delusion (and later, the earth centric delusion) took centuries to dispel.....

Quote:
A Boonger living on the beach up north with a house to go home to every night, sandy beaches drinking rum every day and night, catching fish on the morning tide, with an established harem and control over women, and free to choose what he will do on any given day is far more prosperous than the Modern Caveman cited here as living on the streets.... yet their government income/rent/dimi is the same .......................................... a streetie would be lucky to even remember pussy .... or a good feed.. or sleeping on anything but cold concrete...


which proves Sowell's comments are wrong:  before 1788 , no indigenous was subject to such "poverty", because he had his woman and his fire and his food, unlike today's white "streeties".




Correct - and now your education begins again - it is only NOW that he/she considers self to be relatively impoverished...... keep thinking.... I try hard but you are slow to bite on reality... so all this guff about 'gaps' and such is meaningless ...... unless that Abo wants to live the White Man's high life without the work involved...... he should be happy in his pristine environment surrounded by plenty in both the traditional and the modern sense... The Last Tycoon ...


The highlighted: we agree on this  (so my education is 'up to speed' in this regard); but you forget a million whites are also involuntarily long-term unemployed in the neoliberal economy, and hence NOT living "the White Man's high life", so your phrase "without the work involved"  is misplaced in that sentence, because the work isn't available , as attested by the million whites who are also merely surviving  on the dole ....though more successfully than their black counterparts, given white unemployment rates are lower than  black unemployment rates.



But if he was 'rich' pre-1788 with his fire, his woman and his food.... why is he not 'rich' now with his white man's goodies on top of the free life, open range, etc - you know drinking rum every night.. sandy beaches etc???

At least I've gotten you to the point of realising and perceiving the Grappler Free U concept of comparative poverty - that streetie/skel is infinitely worse off than that shoreline in the tropics Abo on the same government income..... and the skel receives far less in material support such as a tinnie, rods, nets etc to catch his fish on the morning tide... the skel might get the castoff fish bones from a restaurant in Chinatown.... I've seen them...

Thinking caps, people - we mark hard at Grappler U - the Free U - the REAL U!  Putting U back into edication!!  We are dedicated to the concept of E-Ducation - the leading out of what is already within, Grasshoppers.... all knowledge is within you - all that is needed is the right stimulus to bring it out - to lead it out..... E-Ducate it....

It is a wonderful thing to see young people putting two and two together and coming up with infinity....... but that same process is so easily side-railed into being propagandised...

As for the Galactic Lens - Show Me That Horizon!!
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« Last Edit: Dec 16th, 2022 at 8:49pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

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issuevoter
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #391 - Dec 16th, 2022 at 8:48pm
 
When it comes to Aboriginal Australians, the fact of the matter is that we have all the hyperbole, BS, and media posing, including this Forum, and then we have the people. And the two are completely divorced. Go talk to some indigenous people. This is all rubbish.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #392 - Dec 16th, 2022 at 9:53pm
 
issuevoter wrote on Dec 16th, 2022 at 8:48pm:
When it comes to Aboriginal Australians, the fact of the matter is that we have all the hyperbole, BS, and media posing, including this Forum, and then we have the people. And the two are completely divorced. Go talk to some indigenous people. This is all rubbish.


Perzackery! My local Indigenous contact says the same as several here have said - go ask the REAL Aborigines and none of them GAF.... most of them would say 'WTF you talkin' 'bout, bro?'.  As I said - the locals here don't talk to the river Abos half an hour away... ours are oceansiders....

Latte drinkers are the ones....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #393 - Dec 17th, 2022 at 9:42am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 16th, 2022 at 8:35pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 16th, 2022 at 3:06pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 16th, 2022 at 2:20pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 16th, 2022 at 12:17pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 16th, 2022 at 12:05pm:
Frank wrote on Dec 14th, 2022 at 1:16pm:
Cavemen had the same natural resources at their disposal as we have today, and the difference between their standard of living and ours is a difference between the knowledge they could bring to bear on those resources and the knowledge used today.
Thomas Sowell




Comparative Prosperity 101 - a Grappler Free University concept developed by Professor Grappler...


I see you haven't learn one thing I have brought to your attention,  concerning how money is created.

sigh...but the flat earth delusion (and later, the earth centric delusion) took centuries to dispel.....

Quote:
A Boonger living on the beach up north with a house to go home to every night, sandy beaches drinking rum every day and night, catching fish on the morning tide, with an established harem and control over women, and free to choose what he will do on any given day is far more prosperous than the Modern Caveman cited here as living on the streets.... yet their government income/rent/dimi is the same .......................................... a streetie would be lucky to even remember pussy .... or a good feed.. or sleeping on anything but cold concrete...


which proves Sowell's comments are wrong:  before 1788 , no indigenous was subject to such "poverty", because he had his woman and his fire and his food, unlike today's white "streeties".




Correct - and now your education begins again - it is only NOW that he/she considers self to be relatively impoverished...... keep thinking.... I try hard but you are slow to bite on reality... so all this guff about 'gaps' and such is meaningless ...... unless that Abo wants to live the White Man's high life without the work involved...... he should be happy in his pristine environment surrounded by plenty in both the traditional and the modern sense... The Last Tycoon ...


The highlighted: we agree on this  (so my education is 'up to speed' in this regard); but you forget a million whites are also involuntarily long-term unemployed in the neoliberal economy, and hence NOT living "the White Man's high life", so your phrase "without the work involved"  is misplaced in that sentence, because the work isn't available , as attested by the million whites who are also merely surviving  on the dole ....though more successfully than their black counterparts, given white unemployment rates are lower than  black unemployment rates.



But if he was 'rich' pre-1788 with his fire, his woman and his food.... why is he not 'rich' now with his white man's goodies on top of the free life, open range, etc - you know drinking rum every night.. sandy beaches etc???

At least I've gotten you to the point of realising and perceiving the Grappler Free U concept of comparative poverty - that streetie/skel is infinitely worse off than that shoreline in the tropics Abo on the same government income..... and the skel receives far less in material support such as a tinnie, rods, nets etc to catch his fish on the morning tide... the skel might get the castoff fish bones from a restaurant in Chinatown.... I've seen them...

Thinking caps, people - we mark hard at Grappler U - the Free U - the REAL U!  Putting U back into edication!!  We are dedicated to the concept of E-Ducation - the leading out of what is already within, Grasshoppers.... all knowledge is within you - all that is needed is the right stimulus to bring it out - to lead it out..... E-Ducate it....

It is a wonderful thing to see young people putting two and two together and coming up with infinity....... but that same process is so easily side-railed into being propagandised...

As for the Galactic Lens - Show Me That Horizon!!



Few skills are so well rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims.
Thomas Sowell
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #394 - Dec 17th, 2022 at 1:39pm
 
A voice in any form, in my view, will give rise to many arguments and division, legal and otherwise.

If the body is to be an elected body, how is the franchise for it to be determined, regionally (as so far suggested), linguistically perhaps, or some other way? Will voter registration be compulsory? Will voting itself be compulsory? Will an expended Electoral Commission oversee elections to the voice? Will the High Court or some other court be a Court of Disputed Returns? Will the voice need not only its own extensive premises in Canberra and in many other places but also its own executive and other staff to assist it? Will it have a cabinet? Is there not a real chance that it will be infiltrated by the established political parties and become more an instrument of a predominant political party in the same way as Sir Alfred Deakin predicted the progression of the Senate as a “state house” to a battleground for centralised political parties with scant regard for the states the senators nominally represent?

What is proposed seems, whether constitutionally entrenched or not, is in substance a kind of a separate parliament.
..
Like senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price and many other Australians, including many, many lawyers of goodwill, I do not think the voice is the way.

Ian Callinan was a justice of the High Court of Australia from 1998 to 2007.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #395 - Dec 18th, 2022 at 12:27pm
 
... will hardly leave a dust cloud when it crashes to the ground... after costing millions... plenty more where that came from ...

...

"It's a beautiful Saturday morning in the nation's capital of Canberra... hardly a cloud breaks the still air above Canberra... a brand new Gamer Airlines Voiceliner on its first flight of fancy is making its way to final approach ... on the flight deck everything is perfect and Captain Albo has just decided to give the Indigenous co-pilot the chance to handle the landing.... handing over the controls he sits back and considers his property portfolio.... while First Officer Langton takes the controls...... all is smooth and predictable and no problem is expected with the landing......... Suddenly!!! ...................... all contact is lost with Flight 2022 ..... what has happened to the brand new Voiceliner so suddenly?.....

(whoop whoop.. pull up... background mix of radio traffic ... headline 'Canberra Crash Investigations'.... pull up .... pull up.....) ....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #396 - Dec 18th, 2022 at 12:34pm
 
Note:  the picture shown in the post below is not a Gamer Airlines aircraft - but is purely representative of the type... we apologise for any confusion....

THIS is a genuine Gamer Airlines picture...

Might make that Albo Crash Investigations.......  DOWN went the voice with a gurgling sound... the smoke pall rose and burst around...
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« Last Edit: Dec 18th, 2022 at 4:56pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  


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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #397 - Dec 18th, 2022 at 11:31pm
 
Frank wrote on Dec 17th, 2022 at 9:42am:
Few skills are so well rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims.
Thomas Sowell


Sowell in full blown, frankly evil mode.

Design an economy in which inflation is controlled by unemployment, eg, central  bankers raise interest rates to deliberately increase unemployment to bring down inflation...and then accuse the unemployed of being parasites. 

Sheer evil. 
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #398 - Dec 18th, 2022 at 11:47pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 16th, 2022 at 8:35pm:
But if he was 'rich' pre-1788 with his fire, his woman and his food.... why is he not 'rich' now with his white man's goodies on top of the free life, open range, etc - you know drinking rum every night.. sandy beaches etc???


already patiently explained, but in case you have short- term memory problems...

You can't compare a non-money system (eg, hunter gatherer economy) in which everyone has access to the essentials, - with a money economy, in which entrenched unemployment on the dole causes  poverty, because the essentials - clean housing, good food, family support - are no longer affordable. 

Quote:
At least I've gotten you to the point of realising and perceiving the Grappler Free U concept of comparative poverty -


I understood it all along, whereas you are still confused, as explained above.

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #399 - Dec 19th, 2022 at 12:31am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 16th, 2022 at 8:26pm:
Yes - but we don't demand it as a 'right' or kick up a fuss or go to war to get it..


Most unemployed people don't "demand" anything, though even the BCA think the job seeker payment (dole) should be increased. Blacks demanding a return to "Aboriginal culture" is another matter altogether.

Quote:
Told you before - been there, done that - clearly you do not read what I post.


I certainly do; but you keep demanding blacks compete in the same neoliberal job market as non-blacks, even though they are not sufficiently prepared in terms of  education, housing and good food, to successfully compete.   

Quote:
Nothing refuted above but your assertions.


Assertions which are true. Alice Springs is collapsing under a black crime wave: good secure housing, good food, graded employment to facilitate the work habit, improving family morale, tackling alcohol problems head on, are all required.

Quote:
the POINT is the way they jump on them


Nah...that's your diversion from the real issues outlined above. Many pollies, with their comfy, well-paid, seat- warmer jobs, are despised (if unfairly)  by the general population,  black or white.

Quote:
another post sinks that- 'we' didn't smash their culture - they had no culture to smash


a totally ignorant remark, the hunter gatherer economy and associated culture and languages WERE smashed.

Quote:
I personally know that one, coming from a savagely dysfunctional family...


A typical comment from someone  who doesn't understand the difference  between micro- and macro- economics; because one can do it, doesn't mean all can  do it, refer to  the 'fallacy of composition'.
[Keynes noted that while individual  frugality might be good for the individual, the economy would likly go into recession if everyone was frugal at the same time. Likewise not everyone can necessarily get a job at the same time. ]

Quote:
... and your money to sit here and pontificate that comes from?????


Clean living and frugality; whereas the (currency-issuing) state's money should be created in the state's institutions (treasury and central bank), not forced to rely on usurious private-sector money lenders, or reluctant taxpayers. 

Quote:
As easy as Lefty was.. poor soul - he always was a little too high-strung...


Has Lefty left?

Anyway I will stay, to  correct your manifold errors, diversions and confusion, as shown above.
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« Last Edit: Dec 19th, 2022 at 12:43am by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #400 - Dec 19th, 2022 at 10:04am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 18th, 2022 at 11:31pm:
Frank wrote on Dec 17th, 2022 at 9:42am:
Few skills are so well rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims.
Thomas Sowell


Sowell in full blown, frankly evil mode.

Design an economy in which inflation is controlled by unemployment, eg, central  bankers raise interest rates to deliberately increase unemployment to bring down inflation...and then accuse the unemployed of being parasites. 

Sheer evil. 



“People who pride themselves on their "complexity" and deride others for being "simplistic" should realize that the truth is often not very complicated. What gets complex is evading the truth.”

“I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money.”


“The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is never enough of anything to satisfy all those who want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics.”



Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it.”


“When people get used to preferential treatment, equal treatment seems like discrimination.”



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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #401 - Dec 19th, 2022 at 10:45am
 
Frank wrote on Dec 19th, 2022 at 10:04am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 18th, 2022 at 11:31pm:
Frank wrote on Dec 17th, 2022 at 9:42am:
Few skills are so well rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims.
Thomas Sowell


Sowell in full blown, frankly evil mode.

Design an economy in which inflation is controlled by unemployment, eg, central  bankers raise interest rates to deliberately increase unemployment to bring down inflation...and then accuse the unemployed of being parasites. 

Sheer evil. 



“People who pride themselves on their "complexity" and deride others for being "simplistic" should realize that the truth is often not very complicated. What gets complex is evading the truth.”


The truth is the state should guarantee above poverty employment for everyone, since the free market economy rewards the most competitive but leaves the least competitive to merely survive in poverty on the dole.
Simplicity itself.  The complexity is the evil NAIRU dogma of neoliberal economics.

Quote:
“I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money.”


Indeed, but if the state is forced to take your money (through taxes)  to educate you, then it might be smart to look at why the state is forced to do this,  when the  state can create its own currency.

Quote:
“The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is never enough of anything to satisfy all those who want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics.”


That 'first lesson ' is obsolete, now that robots and IT are heavily involved in every field of production. There is no scarcity in the modern global economy, only the evil convention reserving the privilege of money  creation to profit-seeking private sector financiers. 

Quote:
"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it.”


Sowell mimicking Thatcher?

Certainly, both are not "intellectuals" ...


Quote:
“When people get used to preferential treatment, equal treatment seems like discrimination.”


Being forced to subsist on the dole isn't "preferential treatment".  See how evil simpletons like Thatcher and Sowell are?   
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #402 - Dec 19th, 2022 at 2:54pm
 
JobSeeker allowance denied
Ms Lebski is able to work limited hours from home as a graphic designer, but it hasn't provided her with enough income. Three months ago, she applied for a JobSeeker allowance with a medical exemption.

But because she lives with her partner, she was refused.  "He's not earning millions of dollars himself. It doesn't go that far with the cost of food, fuel, electricity, everything," she said.  "The whole idea that living with a spouse in 2022 means that that person is paying everything for you is ridiculous. It puts an incredible amount of pressure on that spouse to share their income, when they may not be in a position themselves to even be able to do that,  and that's the case with us."

She said her parents help her financially with the cost of rent, food and medical expenses.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-19/calls-for-support-for-people-living-with-...

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« Last Edit: Dec 19th, 2022 at 5:08pm by Frank »  

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #403 - Dec 19th, 2022 at 4:29pm
 
Frank wrote on Dec 19th, 2022 at 2:54pm:
JobSeeker allowance denied
Ms Lebski is able to work limited hours from home as a graphic designer, but it hasn't provided her with enough income. Three months ago, she applied for a JobSeeker allowance with a medical exemption.

But because she lives with her partner, she was refused.  "He's not earning millions of dollars himself. It doesn't go that far with the cost of food, fuel, electricity, everything," she said.  "The whole idea that living with a spouse in 2022 means that that person is paying everything for you is ridiculous. It puts an incredible amount of pressure on that spouse to share their income, when they may not be in a position themselves to even be able to do that,  and that's the case with us."

She said her parents help her financially with the cost of rent, food and medical expenses.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-19/calls-for-support-for-people-living-with-...


Living expenses of low income people should be subsidized by government, if the market can't pay decent wages.   Oh... and the dole should be abolished, there is always useful work to be done in any community. 
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #404 - Dec 19th, 2022 at 4:56pm
 
Frank wrote on Dec 19th, 2022 at 2:54pm:
JobSeeker allowance denied
Ms Lebski is able to work limited hours from home as a graphic designer, but it hasn't provided her with enough income. Three months ago, she applied for a JobSeeker allowance with a medical exemption.

But because she lives with her partner, she was refused.  "He's not earning millions of dollars himself. It doesn't go that far with the cost of food, fuel, electricity, everything," she said.  "The whole idea that living with a spouse in 2022 means that that person is paying everything for you is ridiculous. It puts an incredible amount of pressure on that spouse to share their income, when they may not be in a position themselves to even be able to do that,  and that's the case with us."

She said her parents help her financially with the cost of rent, food and medical expenses.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-19/calls-for-support-for-people-living-with-...



Well................. they didn't raise that objection when it came around to the idea of paying PPL ...but that was politically correct and a vote gatherer - paying those with little is not a vote gatherer.. bribes are...
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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