Australian Politics Forum - The Aboriginal Voice referendum

thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12511 Gender:	Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum Reply #1020 - Mar 9^th, 2023 at 2:40pm Frank wrote on Mar 9^th, 2023 at 1:54pm: Truth telling. Yes, a lot of truth telling there from Pauline.... But closing the remote communities won't achieve much if jobs for untrained blacks don't exist in regional centres. Pauline, like you, won't/can't face the truth re the importance of job creation for all.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1021 - Mar 9^th, 2023 at 2:49pm

Go ye forth and create the jobs!!!

Careful!!! "I believe the entire nation (97% non-black) has a partner-abuse problem of egregious proportions - eg, one woman murdered every week. "

Like all other such falsely presented statistics - MOST of those women - the VAST majority - are Aboriginal, and many are killed by other women etc. The sheila up Coffs way who ran down two, and who was recently sentenced, is one clear example.

Here's a kind figure of Eight Times More - doesn't include manslaughter or missing ones and some say up to sixteen times as many as the 97% - so 3% of the population accounts for at least eight times more women than all the other 97%.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/oct/05/rate-of-first-nations-wom...

All the ideologues should be forced to stick to the truth, the WHOLE truth and nothing but the truth.

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« Last Edit: Mar 9^th, 2023 at 2:56pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1022 - Mar 9^th, 2023 at 5:20pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 9^th, 2023 at 2:49pm:

Go ye forth and create the jobs!!!

Careful!!! "I believe the entire nation (97% non-black) has a partner-abuse problem of egregious proportions - eg, one woman murdered every week. "

Like all other such falsely presented statistics - MOST of those women - the VAST majority - are Aboriginal, and many are killed by other women etc. The sheila up Coffs way who ran down two, and who was recently sentenced, is one clear example.

Here's a kind figure of Eight Times More - doesn't include manslaughter or missing ones and some say up to sixteen times as many as the 97% - so 3% of the population accounts for at least eight times more women than all the other 97%.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/oct/05/rate-of-first-nations-wom...

Note "rate of... " in the Guardian article you cite.

You're not good with stats, Graps (eg you asserting higher hourly rates of pay means higher weekly wages for women, which is false, because women do less paid work overall).

And here: so... black women are 3% of the Oz female population; the 8 times higher partner homicide rate among blacks obviously still implies a much smaller number of actual black women homicides. ie a smaller number of black women killed each week.

eg, if X is the partner homicide rate in Oz (per 100,000 population), and 8X is the rate for blacks, the raw number of homicides per week is much less for black women, given they are only 3% of the population.

Hard to get raw numbers, but I found this:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-24/murdered-and-missing-indigenous-women-fou...

"Four Corners can reveal at least 315 First Nations women have either gone missing or been murdered or killed in suspicious circumstances since 2000."

So: 315 in 22 years = c.14 per year = c.0.25 per week.

cf. 1 woman per week for the entire population... c. 50 per year.

Quote:

All the ideologues should be forced to stick to the truth, the WHOLE truth and nothing but the truth.

True, but unfortunately you aren't good with statistical truths.

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« Last Edit: Mar 9^th, 2023 at 5:54pm by thegreatdivide »

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1023 - Mar 9^th, 2023 at 10:03pm

Wrong as usual - I said that raising wage rates in areas that have a largely female workforce will merely add to the already existing gap against men, and such lower wage rates are not a 'gender gap' - they are a sector gap as exists everywhere else..... do try to keep up with reality.

You DO understand the vast difference between HOURLY rates of pay and pay for a week's work, don't you? Women are paid, on average, MORE per hour actually worked than men, and that does not include casual rates... and men work loonger hours and thus bring home MORE pay per week. How many times does that need to be explained to you in simple English?

Well - now - given that the generally accepted figure of women killing of all kinds is sixteen times more likely in the 3% Aboriginal community - and that around 35-40% of those are by other women ..... that doesn't leave many for the other 97% does it?

You can stop lying now and stop trying bald statements of denial..... figures are not your forte, are they?

Murder and manslaughters around one a week... sixteen times more likely to occur in the Abos.... now tell the truth.... at least HALF of the women killings annually are in the Aboriginal communities. That's a pretty awesome record to try to catch up with - even for the other 97%....

Seriously - you should give up - you, like the unlamented Lefty, have yet to take a trick.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1024 - Mar 9^th, 2023 at 11:11pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 9^th, 2023 at 10:03pm:

Wrong as usual - I said that raising wage rates in areas that have a largely female workforce will merely add to the already existing gap against men,

and you are already wrong: men take home more pay, both weekly and yearly, than women.

Quote:

and such lower wage rates are not a 'gender gap' - they are a sector gap as exists everywhere else..... do try to keep up with reality.

Wrong again....low paid sectors like child care and age care ARE gendered (femininized) sectors.

Quote:

You DO understand the vast difference between HOURLY rates of pay and pay for a week's work, don't you?

Yes; the problem is you draw the wrong conclusions, as you are about to show... Note: women on average work a shorter week than men.

Quote:

Women are paid, on average, MORE per hour actually worked than men,

Ok, and....

Quote:

and that does not include casual rates... and men work loonger hours and thus bring home MORE pay per week. How many times does that need to be explained to you in simple English?

Exactly. So men make more money than women over a lifetime, on average.

What was it you are trying to prove?

Apparently you think women CHOOSE to work less PAID hours per week than men. Clearly wrong on your part: woman are FORCED to work less PAID hours per week because of their (gendered) family caring/child-bearing responsibilities; I accept your concession.

Quote:

Well - now - given that the generally accepted figure of women killing of all kinds is sixteen times more likely in the 3% Aboriginal community - and that around 35-40% of those are by other women ..... that doesn't leave many for the other 97% does it?

Waffle: 50 women per year in Oz are killed by their partners. cf c.14 black women per year.

Quote:

You can stop lying now and stop trying bald statements of denial..... figures are not your forte, are they?

Not lying, just reporting stats available on google; even your guardian article reported the homicide RATE as 8 times higher, let's say the rate is 16 times higher; that doesn't mean 16 times as many black women were killed by partners as white women were killed by partners in a given year.

Quote:

Murder and manslaughters around one a week... sixteen times more likely to occur in the Abos.... now tell the truth.... at least HALF of the women killings annually are in the Aboriginal communities. That's a pretty awesome record to try to catch up with - even for the other 97%....

https://www.ourwatch.org.au/quick-facts/

Key statistics on violence against women in Australia

On average, one woman a week is murdered by her current or former partner.

1 in 3 women (30.5%) has experienced physical violence since the age of 15.

1 in 5 women (18%) has experienced sexual violence since the age of 15.

1 in 3 women (31.1%) has experienced physical and/or sexual violence perpetrated by a man they know.

1 in 4 women (23%) has experienced physical or sexual violence by a current or former intimate partner since age 15.

1 in 4 women (23%) has experienced emotional abuse by a current or former partner since the age of 15.

1 in 2 women (53%) has experienced sexual harassment in their lifetime.

Women are nearly three times more likely than men to experience violence from an intimate partner.

Almost 10 women a day are hospitalised for assault injuries perpetrated by a spouse or domestic partner.

I'll stop there; the question is: how many of them are black women? Half?

Regardless, the picture is disturbing and in no way flattering for the non-black community.

Quote:

Seriously - you should give up - you, like the unlamented Lefty, have yet to take a trick.

Refuted above, I just demonstrated your errors.

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« Last Edit: Mar 9^th, 2023 at 11:24pm by thegreatdivide »

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Frank

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1025 - Mar 10^th, 2023 at 10:19am

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 9^th, 2023 at 11:11pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 9^th, 2023 at 10:03pm:

Wrong as usual - I said that raising wage rates in areas that have a largely female workforce will merely add to the already existing gap against men,

and you are already wrong: men take home more pay, both weekly and yearly, than women.

Quote:

and such lower wage rates are not a 'gender gap' - they are a sector gap as exists everywhere else..... do try to keep up with reality.

Wrong again....low paid sectors like child care and age care ARE gendered (femininized) sectors.

Quote:

You DO understand the vast difference between HOURLY rates of pay and pay for a week's work, don't you?

Yes; the problem is you draw the wrong conclusions, as you are about to show... Note: women on average work a shorter week than men.

Quote:

Women are paid, on average, MORE per hour actually worked than men,

Ok, and....

Quote:

and that does not include casual rates... and men work loonger hours and thus bring home MORE pay per week. How many times does that need to be explained to you in simple English?

Exactly. So men make more money than women over a lifetime, on average.

What was it you are trying to prove?

Apparently you think women CHOOSE to work less PAID hours per week than men. Clearly wrong on your part: woman are FORCED to work less PAID hours per week because of their (gendered) family caring/child-bearing responsibilities; I accept your concession.

Quote:

Well - now - given that the generally accepted figure of women killing of all kinds is sixteen times more likely in the 3% Aboriginal community - and that around 35-40% of those are by other women ..... that doesn't leave many for the other 97% does it?

Waffle: 50 women per year in Oz are killed by their partners. cf c.14 black women per year.

Quote:

You can stop lying now and stop trying bald statements of denial..... figures are not your forte, are they?

Not lying, just reporting stats available on google; even your guardian article reported the homicide RATE as 8 times higher, let's say the rate is 16 times higher; that doesn't mean 16 times as many black women were killed by partners as white women were killed by partners in a given year.

Quote:

Murder and manslaughters around one a week... sixteen times more likely to occur in the Abos.... now tell the truth.... at least HALF of the women killings annually are in the Aboriginal communities. That's a pretty awesome record to try to catch up with - even for the other 97%....

https://www.ourwatch.org.au/quick-facts/

Key statistics on violence against women in Australia

On average, one woman a week is murdered by her current or former partner.

1 in 3 women (30.5%) has experienced physical violence since the age of 15.

1 in 5 women (18%) has experienced sexual violence since the age of 15.

1 in 3 women (31.1%) has experienced physical and/or sexual violence perpetrated by a man they know.

1 in 4 women (23%) has experienced physical or sexual violence by a current or former intimate partner since age 15.

1 in 4 women (23%) has experienced emotional abuse by a current or former partner since the age of 15.

1 in 2 women (53%) has experienced sexual harassment in their lifetime.

Women are nearly three times more likely than men to experience violence from an intimate partner.

Almost 10 women a day are hospitalised for assault injuries perpetrated by a spouse or domestic partner.

I'll stop there; the question is: how many of them are black women? Half?

Regardless, the picture is disturbing and in no way flattering for the non-black community.

So why talk of only one special, race based gap?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1026 - Mar 10^th, 2023 at 11:17am

Frank wrote on Mar 10^th, 2023 at 10:19am: