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Poll closed Poll
Question: Will the referendum be voted in?
*** This poll has now closed ***


No    
  42 (75.0%)
Yes    
  14 (25.0%)




Total votes: 56
« Last Modified by: Redmond Neck on: Feb 25th, 2023 at 11:17am »

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The Aboriginal Voice referendum (Read 91224 times)
Brian Ross
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1200 - Mar 19th, 2023 at 11:58am
 
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1201 - Mar 19th, 2023 at 12:18pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 19th, 2023 at 11:58am:



"The food and rents are too high," he said.

"I'm working and earning money; imagine a single mother with kids trying to buy food.

"There is overcrowding and people are paying high rent to live on their own land."


Yes, problems to be solved.

But I'm not sure to what extent the following words are valid:

" We have a right to live how we want to live, especially in a cultural way," he said.

Black culture didn't include paying rent.....
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1202 - Mar 19th, 2023 at 1:17pm
 
Well - if you choose to live in the Ning Nang Nong, you take the downside of it as well.

Just HTF does anyone imagine this 'Voice' will assist a single mother in finding a job and getting more than her current entitlements under Social Security?  How is some 'voice' going to change that?

Do any of you think at all?  Is it so hard to see that you simply cannot put such a concept as a single mother in a remote area finding a job etc into the 'voice' basket?
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Brian Ross
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1203 - Mar 19th, 2023 at 1:25pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 19th, 2023 at 1:17pm:
Well - if you choose to live in the Ning Nang Nong, you take the downside of it as well.

Just HTF does anyone imagine this 'Voice' will assist a single mother in finding a job and getting more than her current entitlements under Social Security?  How is some 'voice' going to change that?

Do any of you think at all?  Is it so hard to see that you simply cannot put such a concept as a single mother in a remote area finding a job etc into the 'voice' basket?


Perhaps that isn't the function of The Voice, Graps?  AIUI The Voice will stop governments from enacting laws which adversely affect Indigenous people.  It will temper their efforts and stop them locking up fine defaulters, traffic infringers and Robodebt victims.  However, you've already discarded such considerations, now haven't you?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1204 - Mar 19th, 2023 at 1:37pm
 
"The food and rents are too high," he said.

"I'm working and earning money; imagine a single mother with kids trying to buy food.

"There is overcrowding and people are paying high rent to live on their own land."


Times are different now.... you are in no way restricted from going out to catch a roo or something on what is now Crown land, so clearly you are not 'living your way'.

That aside... here's your chance, dividie - you sweet-cheeked little thing sitting in Labor HQ trying desperately to sell us this guff - get out there, pack 'em all up,  put 'em on the reservation where they can access bulk and thus cheaper foods etc, build that fabulous hospital the White Man's Way within cannon shot of all of them (kinda restricts the size of the reservation though - but think of the cost of that lowest class free air service already provided - you know - treated like scum out there waiting for that plane - build that hospital and save on flying ambulances, eh?  win-win!) - regularly truck in Macca's for the franchise etc through the huge gates, make sure their annual freebie budget goes to proper housing direct etc, and train them to actually do the fu
c
king work and be paid for working (what a shock to the system = total shutdown from shock).... then the other side of things - PENALISE their head group for failures in rubbish collection, school attendance, damage to homes, anti-social behaviour, crime etc.... make 'em pay for it like a white man.....

That'll cut your rents and food and fuel prices, eh?  Give plenty of 'em real work and incomes... provide first class health care right on the job, lower prices due to bulk supplies.... you know... all those cunning economic factors you so proudly proclaim all day without a single solution... jeez - they could even chase a roo or two if they wanted... visit their 'sacred sites' like that one in Queensland they've never been excluded from and which is nothing unless seen from the air etc.... no big eel there... then there's jurisprudence - they can do things their way and spear every arsehole who goes bad as much as they like... we'll turn a blind eye...

Give 'em their own passports and then they can apply for a visa like anyone else to come here.....

Some might want to emigrate though and take the King's Shilling and become Australians again..... we'd need to put them through a very careful screening process, of course, but I'm amenable to that idea.

You know what?  The Reservations idea was tried in the US... all it does is breed crime and brutality and hopelessness, and countless young women abused and often disappearing annually.... sound remotely familiar yet?
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Frank
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1205 - Mar 19th, 2023 at 2:51pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 19th, 2023 at 11:21am:
Frank wrote on Mar 19th, 2023 at 10:10am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 19th, 2023 at 9:46am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 19th, 2023 at 9:04am:
Superannuation - you get what you get - it needs repair along the Grappler lines, but still... if you don't earn, you don't get.


Actually super is a silly system for avoiding poverty in retirement (sorry Paul), but the fact is you have to work to get it. See your error: your can't "earn" super if you don't work.....

Quote:
Social Security - same-same... no need to even discuss.


You mean... you agree with me - the 'poverty industry' (caused by lack of a job)  should not exist?




You lament that only work can earn super - but then agitate for a job guarantee, ie guaranteed (forced) work for all.

Polly wants to have his cracker and eat it, too.


Notice how you added "forced" into the concept of a JG.

You deplorable RW individual sovereignty ideologue.

We all have to work, for our own sanity, as well for the nation's development.

Employable Aborigines are guaranteed employment through a miriad preferments.

Unemployable Aborigines, like any other unemployable person, would have to be forced into a make belief job or be left on the social security support system.

You cannot force people to work if they are unwilling or unable.
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Brian Ross
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1206 - Mar 19th, 2023 at 3:12pm
 
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1207 - Mar 19th, 2023 at 3:29pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 19th, 2023 at 2:51pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 19th, 2023 at 11:21am:
Frank wrote on Mar 19th, 2023 at 10:10am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 19th, 2023 at 9:46am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 19th, 2023 at 9:04am:
Superannuation - you get what you get - it needs repair along the Grappler lines, but still... if you don't earn, you don't get.


Actually super is a silly system for avoiding poverty in retirement (sorry Paul), but the fact is you have to work to get it. See your error: your can't "earn" super if you don't work.....

Quote:
Social Security - same-same... no need to even discuss.


You mean... you agree with me - the 'poverty industry' (caused by lack of a job)  should not exist?




You lament that only work can earn super - but then agitate for a job guarantee, ie guaranteed (forced) work for all.

Polly wants to have his cracker and eat it, too.


Notice how you added "forced" into the concept of a JG.

You deplorable RW individual sovereignty ideologue.

We all have to work, for our own sanity, as well for the nation's development.

Employable Aborigines are guaranteed employment through a miriad preferments.


Your error there is the proposition of "employable blacks" - an error based on your conservative TINA fallacy.

Quote:
Unemployable Aborigines, like any other unemployable person, would have to be forced into a make belief job or be left on the social security support system.


Everyone (except severely disabled), is employable; that's where the government acting as 'employer of last resort' (ELR), comes in.

https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/the-case-for-a-job-guarantee/

The Case for a Job Guarantee
PAVLINA R. TCHERNEVA

Quote:
You cannot force people to work if they are unwilling or unable.


An above poverty wage will usually entice people into a job Smiley.....and like I said, everyone is ABLE to perform some or other useful work. 
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1208 - Mar 19th, 2023 at 5:37pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 19th, 2023 at 3:12pm:


See  - that's where it goes off the rails - from being a purely advisory body, it is now developing a power of its own in the land....

Why are people so stupid as to believe that a purely advisory body will change anything apart from the bank balances of those who 'work' in it at public cost?

This is just another cult fantasy, and as such will get out of hand ....

Vote NO for sanity ...............

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1209 - Mar 19th, 2023 at 5:41pm
 
"Actually super is a silly system for avoiding poverty in retirement (sorry Paul), but the fact is you have to work to get it. See your error: your can't "earn" super if you don't work....."

By jeez - you're learning - how long has it taken you to agree on that simple requirement?  No workee - no gettee ....

You preparing to load them all up and shift them all to the Reservation where they can get your much proclaimed work, world class medicals, then super and so forth and start working on closing their gaps?

Don't forget - it's now how the money is created - it's all about how it is distributed - we can't eat a creation story.  Once you close that gap, your reasoning will begin to show fruit....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Frank
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1210 - Mar 19th, 2023 at 5:57pm
 


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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1211 - Mar 19th, 2023 at 7:25pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 19th, 2023 at 5:57pm:



Very long - if I were of a mind to and had the energy these days - I'd be sitting here a la student and making notes on issues and then preparing my responses.

I will instead suffice by saying that any grey area will be ruthlessly exploited at some time, and clearly the expectation is of some enormous bureaucracy funded by the taxpayer that will not function on behalf of the taxpayer and most certainly will not abide by that early statement there - that all including judges swear to abide by law - meaning, first off the bat - they CANNOT make a determination that goes to one group only.  Therefore, all current giftings of land etc to Aboriginals as freehold are null and void on the basis of wrongdoing by the courts concerned, and particularly by unelected government bodies, since they are clearly discriminatory and place one group above others.

Better not to go there at all.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Frank
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1212 - Mar 19th, 2023 at 9:19pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 19th, 2023 at 7:25pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 19th, 2023 at 5:57pm:



Very long -


Cheesy
Attention span of a 14 year old's.


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thegreatdivide
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1213 - Mar 20th, 2023 at 9:43am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 19th, 2023 at 5:41pm:
By jeez - you're learning - how long has it taken you to agree on that simple requirement?  No workee - no gettee ....


Already addressed (in reply to Frank, in #1207) , which he won't/ can't contradict):

An above poverty wage will usually entice people into a job.....and like I said, everyone is ABLE to perform some or other useful work.

That is to say: "everyone workee - everyone gettee...."

Quote:
You preparing to load them all up and shift them all to the Reservation where they can get your much proclaimed work, world class medicals, then super and so forth and start working on closing their gaps?


No. I'm preparing communities to function successfully  with a JG; "world class medicals" not required in every community.

Quote:
Don't forget - it's now how the money is created - it's all about how it is distributed - we can't eat a creation story.  Once you close that gap, your reasoning will begin to show fruit....


You are almost there: it's about how money is created, correct - but it's all about how the nation's resources** are distributed...spot the difference...

Once you grasp that truth, we can close the gap.

**resources, not money, are the limiting issue for a fiat currency-issuing government
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« Last Edit: Mar 20th, 2023 at 9:52am by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Frank
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1214 - Mar 20th, 2023 at 10:09am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 19th, 2023 at 3:29pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 19th, 2023 at 2:51pm:
Employable Aborigines are guaranteed employment through a miriad preferments.


Your error there is the proposition of "employable blacks" - an error based on your conservative TINA fallacy.

Quote:
Unemployable Aborigines, like any other unemployable person, would have to be forced into a make belief job or be left on the social security support system.


Everyone (except severely disabled), is employable; that's where the government acting as 'employer of last resort' (ELR), comes in.

https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/the-case-for-a-job-guarantee/

The Case for a Job Guarantee
PAVLINA R. TCHERNEVA

Quote:
You cannot force people to work if they are unwilling or unable.


An above poverty wage will usually entice people into a job Smiley.....and like I said, everyone is ABLE to perform some or other useful work. 



They have to make themselves employable, even when employed by government: be presentable, turn up on time, stay to the end, perform tasks as directed. Unless there is a coercive mechanism (slavery) individuals must make themselves employable.


Remote Aborigines - there are a few hundred people in these settlements. They would know each other personally. Why can't  they get together and work together? Are the delinquent, criminal rapists in the majority in these settlements? If not, how come the rest can't pull together? Why arent the Stan Grant's there helping them pull together and straighten out their lives by cleaning up their houses and streets and themselves and get organised?
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