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Poll closed Poll
Question: Will the referendum be voted in?
*** This poll has now closed ***


No    
  42 (75.0%)
Yes    
  14 (25.0%)




Total votes: 56
« Last Modified by: Redmond Neck on: Feb 25th, 2023 at 11:17am »

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The Aboriginal Voice referendum (Read 91207 times)
Brian Ross
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1245 - Mar 23rd, 2023 at 12:46pm
 
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Frank
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1246 - Mar 23rd, 2023 at 2:38pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 23rd, 2023 at 12:46pm:



Did  @PaulineHansonOz   just expose the agenda of the Voice?

10% of Judiciary, military & police etc to be indigenous. Rivers, steams, beaches & mines returned to indigenous tribes. The Voice to analyse & review all government appointments, policies & legislation - and more …
https://mobile.twitter.com/TheCynicalHun/status/1638707477280854016



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Frank
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1247 - Mar 23rd, 2023 at 2:38pm
 


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« Last Edit: Mar 23rd, 2023 at 3:26pm by Frank »  

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Brian Ross
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1248 - Mar 23rd, 2023 at 3:12pm
 
Hansonite alarmism. Canspiracynut bullshit... Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Frank
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1249 - Mar 23rd, 2023 at 3:27pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 23rd, 2023 at 2:38pm:




Pauline Hanson is spot on - the Voice referendum divides Australia and it will result in long term division and damage, no matter which way the vote goes.

Recognition is one thing. Constitutional political power based on racial privileges, often obtained on highly dubious ground, is a completely different thing.

Livid Thorpe is an early sample of what the Voice in power will be like. Divisive at every turn, and it will be so by definition. 
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Brian Ross
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1250 - Mar 23rd, 2023 at 3:40pm
 
Oh, dearie, dearie, me, what "Power"? The Voice is a purely advisory body, it has no real power, except what the High Court accords to it as a part of the Constitution, Soren, Hanson as usual has been listening to the alarmist voices in her Party again.  Anything to further her agenda, anything to keep Indigenous Australians under her heel.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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« Last Edit: Mar 23rd, 2023 at 9:26pm by Brian Ross »  

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Boris
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1251 - Mar 23rd, 2023 at 3:54pm
 
The Voice - the Referendum Divides Australia.
It will be roughly 50/50 and if it passes about half of Australians will hate the other half.
Great leadership is about bringing the Country together not splitting it up.
Shame Labor Shame
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Brian Ross
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1252 - Mar 23rd, 2023 at 4:10pm
 
Boris wrote on Mar 23rd, 2023 at 3:54pm:
The Voice - the Referendum Divides Australia.
It will be roughly 50/50 and if it passes about half of Australians will hate the other half.
Great leadership is about bringing the Country together not splitting it up.
Shame Labor Shame


Bullshit, Matty, pure and utter, Bullshit.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Frank
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1253 - Mar 23rd, 2023 at 4:12pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 23rd, 2023 at 3:40pm:
Oh, dearie, dearie, me, what "Power"? The Voice is a purely advisory formation, it has no real power, except what the High Court accords to it as a part of the Constitution, Soren, Hanson as usual has been listening to the alarmist voices in her Party again.  Anything to further hr agenda, anything to keep Indigenous Australians under her heel.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


What is the difference between the aNIAA and the Voice?

National Indigenous Australians Agency
The National Indigenous Australians Agency (NIAA) is committed to improving the lives of all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.

The NIAA recognises that each community is unique. Our team includes people across Australia who work closely with communities to make sure policies, programs and services address these unique needs.

The NIAA's Areas of Focus

Closing the Gap
Community Safety
Uluru Statement from the Heart
Consultations
Culture
Early Childhood Development
Economic Development
Education
Employment
Empowered Communities
Environment
Evaluations and Evidence
Grants and Funding
Health and Wellbeing
Land and Housing
Referendum

https://www.niaa.gov.au/areas-of-focus

https://www.niaa.gov.au/

The Uluru Statement says that First Nations’ sovereignty was never ceded and coexists with the Crown’s sovereignty today, that sovereignty comes from a different source to the sovereignty claimed by the Crown, from the ancestral tie between the land and its people. The Uluru Statement calls for this ancient sovereignty to be recognised through structural reform including constitutional change. Enshrining a First Nations Voice is recognition of First Nations’ sovereignty and First Nations’ rights based on their unique political and cultural existence.
https://ulurustatement.org/education/faqs/

Everyone's unique, not just Aborigines.



Is the Voice proposal limited because it will only be able to advise parliament on policy and legislation?

No. The Voice will have powers and functions to support First Nations people across a range of matters, as agreed between First Nations and government. Its strength for First Nations communities, as well as its value to government, will come from the legitimacy of being a genuinely representative, collective Voice. And from the mandate gained from the Australian people at a referendum.
https://ulurustatement.org/education/faqs/



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Brian Ross
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1254 - Mar 23rd, 2023 at 4:13pm
 
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1255 - Mar 23rd, 2023 at 4:14pm
 
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Frank
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1256 - Mar 23rd, 2023 at 4:19pm
 
The current debate about the proposed Indigenous voice to parliament is impossible to separate from the Uluru Statement from the Heart, which is where everything began.

This document, drawn up in May 2017, outlines an agenda for change that has been endorsed by the Labor Party and was even presented to the Pope. It won last year’s Sydney Peace Prize and in some states it is being taught and discussed in schools.

But here’s rub: the most poetic part of this document, the section that refers to sovereignty as a spiritual notion, is not original and the real author was referring to Africans, not Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders.

It was copied from a 1975 ruling of the International Court of Justice that concerned the people of the Western Sahara.


The primary author of that passage was a gifted jurist from Zaire, Nicolas Bayona-Ba-Meya, whose submission to the court was picked up and incorporated in the ruling handed down by judge Fouad Ammoun, the court’s Lebanese vice-president.

This link between the Uluru statement and the work of Bayona-Ba-Meya and Fouad Ammoun is outlined in a new book on the voice by Jesuit priest and lawyer Frank Brennan.

He points out the words from Ammoun’s judgment in the Western Sahara case found their way to Australia in 1992, when they were reproduced in the High Court’s Mabo ruling that overturned the doctrine of terra nullius – that Australia was an empty land owned by nobody.

From there, Brennan writes that an adapted version found its way into the Uluru statement. The similarity between Uluru and the passage in Ammoun’s judgment about the Western Sahara is uncanny.

Consider the third paragraph of the Uluru statement that concludes with the assertion that Indigenous sovereignty has never been ceded or extinguished and coexists with the sovereignty of the Crown.

That paragraph starts by describing sovereignty as “a spiritual notion: the ancestral tie between the land, or ‘mother nature’, and the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples who were born therefrom, remain attached thereto, and must one day return thither to be united with our ancestors. This link is the basis of the ownership of the soil, or better, of sovereignty”.

This is the only section of the Uluru statement that uses archaic forms of language and, according to Brennan: “Not many 21st century Aboriginal Australians use terms like therefrom, thereto and thither.”

Now consider Ammoun’s original passage, which uses those archaic terms and which appeared twice in the Mabo judgment.

The Lebanese judge wrote that the submission of Bayona-Ba-Meya substitutes for terra nullius “a spiritual notion: the ancestral tie between the land, or ‘mother nature’, and the man who was born therefrom, remains attached thereto, and must one day return thither to be united with his ancestors. This link is the basis of the ownership of the soil, or better, of sovereignty”.

With only superficial changes, the Uluru statement reproduces this entire passage, right down to the colon after the first three words, without attribution to either the High Court, Ammoun or, more importantly, Bayona-Ba-Meya, who conceived of sovereignty as a spiritual concept.

The only changes from Ammoun’s original wording are Uluru’s insertion of the words “Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples” instead of Ammoun’s reference “the man” and the subsequent reference to “our” ancestors instead of “his” ancestors.
https://ruleoflawaustralia.com.au/commentary/out-of-africa-uluru-statement-from-
the-heart/

The idea of Aboriginal sovereignty is plagiarised from an African source.

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Frank
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1257 - Mar 23rd, 2023 at 4:21pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 23rd, 2023 at 3:40pm:
Oh, dearie, dearie, me, what "Power"? The Voice is a purely advisory body, it has no real power, except what the High Court accords to it as a part of the Constitution,



And what power will that be?


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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1258 - Mar 23rd, 2023 at 4:36pm
 
How does a person qualify as a "voice" parliamentarian? Can they have European ancestry?
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1259 - Mar 23rd, 2023 at 4:57pm
 
"More significantly, the government has reworded the section about parliament’s power, although it has not taken up a proposal from Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus, after advice from the Solicitor-General, to add specific wording that parliament could legislate on “the legal effect of its representations”.

This ran into resistance among the referendum working group, which feared the potential to water down the Voice’s power.

Appearing at the Albanese news conference, Dreyfus said: “The process has worked exactly as it should be. I’m proud to be part of it. We have words here that put beyond doubt the power of the Australian parliament to legislate on the broad scope of the functions, powers, of the Voice to parliament.”

Opposition leader Peter Dutton called for the government to release the Solicitor-General’s advice. “In the absence of that advice, and in the absence of detail from the prime minister, how can the Australian public make an informed judgement about a very, very important issue?” "

https://theconversation.com/were-all-in-declares-an-emotional-albanese-as-he-lau...

So just what was the Solicitor General's advice? Roll Eyes
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