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Poll closed Poll
Question: Will the referendum be voted in?
*** This poll has now closed ***


No    
  42 (75.0%)
Yes    
  14 (25.0%)




Total votes: 56
« Last Modified by: Redmond Neck on: Feb 25th, 2023 at 11:17am »

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The Aboriginal Voice referendum (Read 91169 times)
issuevoter
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1305 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 7:45am
 
Any legal representation in parliament of Australians based on their race, is dangerous in our so-called multicultural society. There is every risk that the "Voice," if passed, will become a complicated farce.
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1306 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 7:51am
 
Gnads wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 7:20am:
Voice Group expert quits .... Albanese giving activists a green light & power over Govt.

There was always "devilment" in the detail they didn't want to tell you about.

Quote:
VOICE GROUP EXPERT QUITS OVER
‘PERVERSION’
JAMES CAMPBELL

PROFESSOR Greg Craven has quit the federal government’s constitutional
experts group on the Voice
, describing the final question to put at this
year’s referendum as “a perversion of the process”.

Anthony Albanese announced on Thursday the question to be asked at the referendum on the Indigenous Voice to parliament later this year.

Professor Craven, a conservative who has been a Voice supporter, quit after the Prime Minister backed the demand of the government’s referendum working group the proposed constitutional change should not
restrict the power of the courts to intervene on behalf of the body.


It is understood Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus had proposed the proposed constitutional amendment should make clear parliament would
have the power to legislate to define the circumstances in which courts
could review government decisions in relation to the Voice.


But Mr Albanese instead backed the working group’s demand there be no such
limitation
.

Professor Craven declined to comment on his exit from the group, which was confirmed by government sources.

He described Mr Albanese’s decision as “a huge mistake”, saying it would
empower activist judges
.

“I think you should take the working group at its word, and they say it is an intention that the courts have the power to review government over
Voice representations
,” he said.

“Originally they were saying there won’t
be any involvement of the judges... this is a complete perversion of the entire process.


Courier Mail Sat 25 March 2023 paywalled
[url]https://todayspaper.couriermail.com.au/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubn
ame=&pubid=3b0f634e-9aa7-4e7f-97c7-54cba6c9efaa
[/url]

Vote NO ... for this constitutional power grab by Aboriginal activists.


Well - that shows the greatest danger in this ridiculous idea.... a few unelected but carefully placed in advance 'justices' coming up with yer more wacky ideas to settle in favour of the complainant... protect the victims you see...

NO THANKS!  Only a complete idiot would vote in favour of this - now watch 'em line up.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1307 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 8:40am
 
Thticking to the thubject for a change:-

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/voice-to-parliament-constitutional-law-expe...

"A constitutional law expert has slammed Anthony Albanese's Voice to parliament as a 'fatally flawed ruthless con job'.

On Thursday, the PM finally released details of the referendum and the question Australians will vote on.

Mr Albanese appeared on the verge of tears on at least five occasions as he announced the question, while emotionally calling on Australians to 'get this done'.

However, Professor Greg Craven, a constitutional lawyer who was one of the experts behind the original proposal of an Indigenous Voice, has slammed Mr Albanese's proposal as a 'con job'.

He said: 'I think it's fatally flawed because what it does is retain the full range of review of executive action.

'This means the Voice can comment on everything from submarines to parking tickets.

'We will have regular judicial interventions,' he warned.

Speaking to Ben Fordham on 2GB, Prof Craven explained how the Voice had been 'colonised' by 'left-leaning ideologues'.

'It was originally a conservative proposal,' he said. 'It was really designed to recognise indigenous people without risking judicial activism.

'Over the past year, it's really been colonised by left leaning ideologues from this community, trying to turn it from a model that was not run by the judges, to one that absolutely guarantees judicial intervention.

'The reality is that you will have a situation where any person who wants to create difficulty for a government over its decisions can now end up going to the High Court.

'It will be very, very difficult for government to operate either because it will be constantly delayed and tied up in knots, or indeed because the courts end up intervening directly in decisions.'

Opinion polling has indicated Australians are very divided on whether to support the referendum, and Prof Craven thinks a 'No' vote is inevitable.

Writing in the Australian, he said: 'It is a ruthless con job. It is aimed at the Australian people as a whole and an adoring media barely literate in constitutional reality.

'It puts the final bullet through the head of the referendum. The polls already show a sick referendum. It is now terminal.'

The professor also warned that the inclusion of 'draft principles' were another source of alarm as it could lead to Australians voting on the referendum without specifically knowing what areas the Voice could apply to.

'The idea is that instead of actual detail or architecture for the referendum, we are meant to be assuaged by motherhood statements so vague that they mean nothing,' Prof Craven wrote.

'Look at Albanese's enunciated principles: the voice will be proactive, representative, chosen by local communities, transparent and cooperative.

'What on earth does this actually mean? It could cover any commonwealth body from the Australian Defence Force to the ABC.'

Speaking to ABC, he added: 'I'm not pretty frustrated, I'm incredibly frustrated. I think the Government has made multiple errors of process here, one of which is a total lack of clarity.

In an emotional press conference, Anthony Albanese implored Australians to vote yes in the Voice to Parliament referendum later this year.

'This moment has been a very long time in the making. It's a simple matter from the heart,' he said.

'Recognising Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians in our Constitution is the best chance this country has had to address the injustices of the past and move Australia forward for everyone, the best way to do this is to give people a voice.

'This is a modest request. I say to Australia; don't miss it. This is a real opportunity.

'This is a risk, having a referendum. Usually they don't succeed. But the people here can't wait. They can't. They've waited so long. They've waited a long time for justice, this is something where they're making such a modest request. I do feel a responsibility.

'On the May 21 I began my prime ministership with a declaration about a referendum.

'I knew what I was doing, I knew the weight that was there and I knew how that would be received by people. I also knew I had my party completely behind me.

'I'm not here to occupy the space, I'm here to change the country. There's nowhere more important in changing the country than in changing the constitution to recognise the fullness of our history.

'I want this for all Australians. We'll feel better about ourselves if we get this done. The truth is, Australia will be seen as a better nation in the rest of the world. Our position in the world matters.'

'So, this alteration was designed in a black box, we don't know who designed it, now it's been revised in a black box, there's been no attempt to engage wider opinion.

'And I think the total disaster is we've already got a referendum that's heading south in the polls, even before this it was describing the typical arc of a losing referendum.

'But the most potent argument, surely for the 'no' side, will be, "Even your own Attorney-General and your own Solicitor-General said this proposal should not go forward in the words of executive government, and now you're trying to sell us that." I mean, if the 'no' case needed another argument, it's got an absolute humdinger."


(cont) (yes - he is).....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1308 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 8:43am
 
(cont).... (he still is)...............

"His words come after Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus warned of significant consequences for the future of reconciliation should the referendum on the Indigenous Voice to parliament fail.

Mr Dreyfus said a 'no' vote would lead to long periods of inaction on reform.

'It would be a very long time before we returned to any question of recognition. I think it would be a tremendous setback for relations with our First Peoples,' he told ABC Radio on Friday.

'I'm focused on success because the consequences of failure would be dire.'

A new section would be placed in the constitution, recognising Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders as the 'First Peoples of Australia'.

The proposed question being put to voters is: 'A Proposed Law: to alter the constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?'

Laws setting out the referendum will be introduced to parliament next week, with the vote to take place between October and December.

The Liberals have yet to outline their position on whether to support the voice but Opposition Leader Peter Dutton has urged the government to release legal advice presented by the solicitor-general.

Indigenous Australians Minister Linda Burney said there was nothing to fear from the referendum and urged support from the coalition.

'The Liberals are looking for excuses, and I think they've almost run out of excuses,' she told ABC Radio.

'My real hope is that (Dutton) provides bipartisan support in the way that happened during the week on the machinery bill ... if there is not bipartisan support, that would be unfortunate, but it will not stop the referendum going ahead.'

Prominent 'no' campaigner Warren Mundine said the announcement of the question by the prime minister had not allayed his concerns on the proposal.

'It is like being asked 'would you like cake with your coffee?' We like to know what is in the cake before we say yes to it,' he told ABC TV.

'It is not going to change one iota anything on the ground of Aboriginal people."



Jesus - who ever asked for the marathon Spanish Inquisition....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1309 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 8:47am
 
Reconcile Alice Springs, Darwin, Townsville, attacks on young girls, and so forth and so on ad infinitum, all the way to smashed windows on cars at Mt Warning car park and set fires and further... then we'll talk...

When one side is flailing away with a big stick, and the other is drooling porridge into its beard while copping blows to the head daily... isn't it time to stop waiting for REAL justice for all equally?

REAL justice would mean throwing all these arseholes under a passing carriage iron wheel one at a time...

Get rid of the kinks!!

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1310 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 9:17am
 
Recognition should be in the Constitution.

Voice should just be legislated and then the hundred government bodies which exist solely for ATSI can be audited and scrapped where overlapping exists.

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1311 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 10:44am
 
Quote:
Don't be fooled by Anthony Albanese's lies - Indigenous Australians DO have a say in our government. In fact, indigenous voices arguably hold more power than most. The National Indigenous Australians Agency, for instance, is set to receive a staggering 4.5 billion dollars in taxpayer funding this year, and it already performs most - if not all - of the functions proposed by Anthony Albanese's discriminatory race-based Voice proposal.
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1312 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 11:20am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 24th, 2023 at 6:32pm:
I was always of the belief that on this issue the elephant in the room is and always will be separate treatment under our constitution.


Ok....and when the voice goes down - as is likely, given growing division over the voice referendum - a new 'elephant in the room' will emerge.

Looking forward (after the referendum), that's the one I am addressing, since the nation will still be faced with closing the gap.   

Quote:
All the side issues need a different approach, given that all pretty much agree any voice will not resolve them or materially assist them in any way.

Stick to the real issue - division of the nation by colour and race.


Ok....and after the referendum?
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1313 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 11:24am
 
Gnads wrote on Mar 24th, 2023 at 6:38pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 24th, 2023 at 6:32pm:
I was always of the belief that on this issue the elephant in the room is and always will be separate treatment under our constitution.

All the side issues need a different approach, given that all pretty much agree any voice will not resolve them or materially assist them in any way.

Stick to the real issue - division of the nation by colour and race.



I think that's beyond TGD he's too busy with sikaflexing the gap, the Job guarantee & MMT.


See my previous post.

What are your policies to close the gap - voice or no voice - after the referendum?
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1314 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 11:25am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 11:24am:
Gnads wrote on Mar 24th, 2023 at 6:38pm:
[quote author=The_Grappler link=1664785669/1297#1297 date=1679646745]I was always of the belief that on this issue the elephant in the room is and always will be separate treatment under our constitution.

All the side issues need a different approach, given that all pretty much agree any voice will not resolve them or materially assist them in any way.

Stick to the real issue - division of the nation by colour and race.



I think that's beyond TGD he's too busy with sikaflexing the gap, the Job guarantee & MMT.


See my previous post (#1312)

What are your policies to close the gap - voice or no voice - after the referendum?
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1315 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 12:23pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 9:17am:
Recognition should be in the Constitution.


Sorry, isn't that a tad wacist?
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1316 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 12:25pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 11:25am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 11:24am:
Gnads wrote on Mar 24th, 2023 at 6:38pm:
[quote author=The_Grappler link=1664785669/1297#1297 date=1679646745]I was always of the belief that on this issue the elephant in the room is and always will be separate treatment under our constitution.

All the side issues need a different approach, given that all pretty much agree any voice will not resolve them or materially assist them in any way.

Stick to the real issue - division of the nation by colour and race.



I think that's beyond TGD he's too busy with sikaflexing the gap, the Job guarantee & MMT.


See my previous post (#1312)

What are your policies to close the gap - voice or no voice - after the referendum?


This is a discussion of the voice referendum - try to stay with us, son.
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1317 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 12:59pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 12:25pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 11:25am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 11:24am:
Gnads wrote on Mar 24th, 2023 at 6:38pm:
[quote author=The_Grappler link=1664785669/1297#1297 date=1679646745]I was always of the belief that on this issue the elephant in the room is and always will be separate treatment under our constitution.

All the side issues need a different approach, given that all pretty much agree any voice will not resolve them or materially assist them in any way.

Stick to the real issue - division of the nation by colour and race.



I think that's beyond TGD he's too busy with sikaflexing the gap, the Job guarantee & MMT.


See my previous post (#1312)

What are your policies to close the gap - voice or no voice - after the referendum?


This is a discussion of the voice referendum - try to stay with us, son.


Er..I see you don't like thinking ahead....hokaay.
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1318 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 4:57pm
 
Karnal wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 12:23pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 9:17am:
Recognition should be in the Constitution.


Sorry, isn't that a tad wacist?

No.




As well as watching the Union Jack fluttering down, and sounding the 'Last Post' over a lifetime of distinguished scholarship, Ornamentalism offers a spirited riposte to, and critique of, Edward Said's celebrated Orientalism. Never mind Said's identification of the racism at the heart of the 'civilising mission', in Cannadine's imperium, in which 'analogues of hierarchy' rule OK, status is far more important than race.

Pace Said, Cannadine claims it as 'a substantial, a significant and a neglected truth' that 'the British did regard the dark-skinned members of their empire as more admirable, more important and more noble than white men'. Since this is a top-down examination of the sources, paying special attention to the captains and the kings, not their batmen or valets, this claim is hard to verify, except by a repetition of the Englishman's fascination with the toys of empire.

Not all his evidence is unequivocal. Cannadine cites the story of King Kalakaua's visit to England in 1881 as evidence of an obsession with hierarchy. When the Hawaiian king, a friend of RL Stevenson's, attended a society do, the Prince of Wales (the future Edward VII) insisted on his guest's precedence over the future Kaiser Wilhelm II with the words: 'Either the brute is a king or he's a common-or-garden nigger; and if the latter, what's he doing here?' Presumably, Professor Said would interpret this gruesome court scene differently.
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« Last Edit: Mar 25th, 2023 at 5:07pm by Frank »  

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1319 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 5:01pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 11:25am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 11:24am:
Gnads wrote on Mar 24th, 2023 at 6:38pm:
[quote author=The_Grappler link=1664785669/1297#1297 date=1679646745]I was always of the belief that on this issue the elephant in the room is and always will be separate treatment under our constitution.

All the side issues need a different approach, given that all pretty much agree any voice will not resolve them or materially assist them in any way.

Stick to the real issue - division of the nation by colour and race.



I think that's beyond TGD he's too busy with sikaflexing the gap, the Job guarantee & MMT.


See my previous post (#1312)

What are your policies to close the gap - voice or no voice - after the referendum?


Let's imagine that the Voice achieves the 'closing of the gap' ( yes, an absurd fantasy, I know).

What happens to the Voice in the constitution then? 

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