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Poll closed Poll
Question: Will the referendum be voted in?
*** This poll has now closed ***


No    
  42 (75.0%)
Yes    
  14 (25.0%)




Total votes: 56
« Last Modified by: Redmond Neck on: Feb 25th, 2023 at 11:17am »

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The Aboriginal Voice referendum (Read 91143 times)
thegreatdivide
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1335 - Mar 26th, 2023 at 12:07pm
 
Gnads wrote on Mar 26th, 2023 at 11:55am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 26th, 2023 at 11:34am:
Gnads wrote on Mar 26th, 2023 at 10:53am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 25th, 2023 at 11:20am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 24th, 2023 at 6:32pm:
I was always of the belief that on this issue the elephant in the room is and always will be separate treatment under our constitution.


Ok....and when the voice goes down - as is likely, given growing division over the voice referendum - a new 'elephant in the room' will emerge.

Looking forward (after the referendum), that's the one I am addressing, since the nation will still be faced with closing the gap.   

Quote:
All the side issues need a different approach, given that all pretty much agree any voice will not resolve them or materially assist them in any way.

Stick to the real issue - division of the nation by colour and race.


Ok....and after the referendum?


Yeah? ... what will that "new" elephant be?


The current dysfunctional neoliberal economic system which is overseeing soaring inequality amidst entrenched poverty, and failing government services like health and education.


That's not "new".

It's been happening across both political parties for decades.


Indeed, since the adoption of Thatcherite neoliberalism by both parties in the 80s.

But the resulting soaring inequality amidst entrenched poverty has finally caught up with the deplorable RW; they are now unelectable, while Labor is talking about ending privatizations and ending super concessions for the wealthy etc etc., small steps in the right direction (ie back to the Keynesian 'welfare state').

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1336 - Mar 26th, 2023 at 12:21pm
 
The new elephant in the room will be the war on the streets that Albo, in his sociopathic and megalomaniac pursuit of his place in history as a great statesman, will have created out of absolutely nothing.

Whichever way this ridiculous referendum goes - it will only be the start - never the finish.... so finish it NOW!  Start by voting NO.

Footnote:-  Ah, yes - the hate squad will be back tomorrow - out of money and partying after 'pick up the rent' day on Centrelink Thursday... they've been quiet since the murder in Darwin and a few other things.... of course their puny excuse will be that they can't hold their end of any argument with a 'bunch of racists' .....  but never let real life interfere with a good slagging... they'll be back.....

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« Last Edit: Mar 26th, 2023 at 12:27pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

Mau_Mau_004.jpg (37 KB | 5 )
Mau_Mau_004.jpg

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1337 - Mar 26th, 2023 at 12:26pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 26th, 2023 at 12:02pm:
I think, rather than being concerned with 'closing' any gaps - those can be addressed by other ways etc and have nothing to do with constitutional change - this nation will be caught up in massive civil unrest and possibly civil war.


Well ...with housing ownership rates falling, the 'millennials' are becoming restive, that's one reason why the Coalition was turfed out last night.

Now..... the polies who can promise to oversee an increase in public housing and/or housing ownership will obviously find favour with the electorate and hence assist in avoiding civil war. [You should have heard Trump in full demagogic flight this morning - blaming "communists" for turning America into a "3rd world banana republic"...correct description of the reality, but incorrect assignation of cause]. 

Quote:
Once that is over - I doubt there will be many gaps left to fill.  Best to move on with Aborassic Park immediately, and ship all the dissidents there and leave them to sort it out 'their way'..... give 'em a homeland ... let them return to their idyllic pre-colonisation paradise, and leave them to it.

In two years we'll check on the survivors.


Impractical.

Quote:
Close the gaps in abusing and bashing women and children and men v one another, the rampant crime ....


How?

Quote:
arrest public figures who call for a war against this country,


Hyperbole; wanting a voice is not declaring war, though the voice misses the real cause of the gap ie economic issues and excessive commitment to 'culture'.


Quote:
and chop away all the dead wood in all those countless Aboriginal only structures that are standing in the way of closing any gaps.  If they stop abusing, fighting and neglecting one another they might even live longer.


The poverty industry is a major culprit behind the gap and associated social dysfunction.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1338 - Mar 26th, 2023 at 12:40pm
 
So attack the poverty industry at its source... one fortress at a time.... you can't spread too thin.... you are flogging a dead horse trying to undermine the basic structure on which most economies worldwide operate - so start with a simple 'one at a time'.... so start addressing the specific Aboriginal problem of over-governance accompanied by negative action from their own paid handsomely to look after their interests.

Remember that this 'voice' will not take over the functions of any of those organisations - just add another layer of overpaid bloated bureaucracy to cater to Aboriginal whims and whines while actually achieving nothing but the planned disruption of government.

You don't seriously think those who consider themselves the Crown Princes and Princesses for the top slots in the Voice Corporation will be doing any actual work - they'll need an enormous staff ... ALL Aboriginal so no hint of any other view ever enters their dark reasonings ... and all massively overpaid.  Do you seriously imagine that will solve any real problems?  They'll employ city porchies - those Out Back and On The Streets will continue to wallow in a haze of alcohol and abuse and violence.

One of the excellent arguments raised is that this is the only 'referendum' in our history that has not had the input of the entire community and was openly discussed by ALL stakeholders - but in which all discussion was hoarded by and handed to a small self-appointed elite of one side.

If that alone doesn't raise red flags for you - I cannot help you.... but as part of the problem, you will be equally responsible for what happens when this nonsense is sent to hell and the civil War begins.

I advise you to be prepared - when this insanity fails at the ballot box, be prepared for armed gangs seeking to get at you or yours.... in the first strikes they will 'win' by virtue of surprise and numbers - you can at least remove surprise from the equation and go find yourself an Equaliser (no coincidence that Denzel is Black)... get some good doors etc .... school yourself to knock the first one through a window on the head with a bat etc....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Brian Ross
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1339 - Mar 26th, 2023 at 1:31pm
 
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Frank
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1340 - Mar 26th, 2023 at 1:33pm
 
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1341 - Mar 26th, 2023 at 1:36pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 26th, 2023 at 1:33pm:



And THAT is the entire point.... an advisory only body does not need to be enshrined in the Constitution.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Brian Ross
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1342 - Mar 26th, 2023 at 2:15pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 26th, 2023 at 1:36pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 26th, 2023 at 1:33pm:


And THAT is the entire point.... an advisory only body does not need to be enshrined in the Constitution.


Depends on how long you expect it to last, Graps.  Outside the constitution  it will only last as long as labor is in power.  In the constitution it will take another referendum to remove it.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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« Last Edit: Mar 26th, 2023 at 4:07pm by Brian Ross »  

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1343 - Mar 26th, 2023 at 2:49pm
 
NO
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Life's Journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting,
"Holy Sh!t ... What a Ride!"
 
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Frank
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1344 - Mar 26th, 2023 at 3:16pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 26th, 2023 at 2:15pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 26th, 2023 at 1:36pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 26th, 2023 at 1:33pm:


And THAT is the entire point.... an advisory only body does not need to be enshrined in the Constitution.


Depends on how long you expect it to last, Graps.  Outside the constitution  it will only last as long as labor is in power.  In th constitution it will take another referendum to remove it.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

You are lying, Bbwian, as usual.

Who was in power in 2019 when NIAA was established, snivelling fathead?
https://www.niaa.gov.au/our-business#:~:text=The%20NIAA%20was%20established%20in...
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Brian Ross
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1345 - Mar 26th, 2023 at 4:08pm
 
Oh, dearie, dearie, me, then we have ATSIC and its sorry history...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
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Frank
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1346 - Mar 26th, 2023 at 6:21pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 26th, 2023 at 4:08pm:
Oh, dearie, dearie, me, then we have ATSIC and its sorry history...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


... of nepotism, corruption, tribal rivalry, sexual assault, embezzlement and so on and so forth.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1347 - Mar 26th, 2023 at 6:28pm
 
So WHEN it is clear it is not doing its job - you want it to remain forever and require another referendum to get rid of it?  A government must retain the absolute right to disband or remove a body created by government fiat that is clearly not doing its appointed job or is causing far too much trouble or is misbehaving.

No thanks.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Brian Ross
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1348 - Mar 26th, 2023 at 8:13pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 26th, 2023 at 6:21pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 26th, 2023 at 4:08pm:
Oh, dearie, dearie, me, then we have ATSIC and its sorry history...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


... of nepotism, corruption, tribal rivalry, sexual assault, embezzlement and so on and so forth.


One man's offences are not those of an entire organisation, Soren.  Oh, dearie, dearie, me, tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
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Frank
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1349 - Mar 26th, 2023 at 8:50pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 26th, 2023 at 8:13pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 26th, 2023 at 6:21pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 26th, 2023 at 4:08pm:
Oh, dearie, dearie, me, then we have ATSIC and its sorry history...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


... of nepotism, corruption, tribal rivalry, sexual assault, embezzlement and so on and so forth.


One man's offences are not those of an entire organisation, Soren.  Oh, dearie, dearie, me, tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

You ARE a mindless moron, cockwomble, that's your role in life. Keep it up, we NEED to see what moron looks like - an eternal reminder.



Successors
Ministerial Taskforce on Indigenous Affairs

On 28 May 2004 the Ministerial Taskforce on Indigenous Affairs (MTF) was established for the purpose of "driving the delivery of improved services and outcomes for Indigenous Australians".[12] It was chaired by Mal Brough, Minister for Families, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs and Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for Indigenous Affairs.[13]

Office of Indigenous Policy Coordination

Main article: Office of Indigenous Policy Coordination
The Office of Indigenous Policy Coordination was created within the Department of Immigration and Multicultural and Indigenous Affairs on 1 July 2004 "to coordinate and drive the Government's new arrangements in Indigenous affairs",[14] and took on ATSIC's responsibilities upon its abolition. Following machinery of government changes, that office was transferred to the Department of Families, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs on 27 January 2006.[15]

National Indigenous Council

Main article: National Indigenous Council
On 6 November 2004 a government-appointed advisory body, the National Indigenous Council, was announced by the former Minister for Indigenous Affairs, Senator Vanstone, who said that the National Indigenous Council would "provide expert advice to the Australian Government on policy, program and service-delivery issues affecting Aboriginal people and Torres Strait Islanders". It would act as an advisory body only, to support the work of the Ministerial Taskforce on Indigenous Affairs.[16]

At the time the government announced its dismantling, Bob Collins, who had served in the Hawke ministry when ATSIC was established, said that the organisation had let down Indigenous people by deciding that "looking after Geoff Clark was more important than looking after ATSIC".[8]

Following an Inquiry, the 2005 report by its Select Committee said that while there had been widespread support for instituting changes to the way that ATSIC was structured as well as how it operates, there was also "overwhelming" support for the continued existence of a national Indigenous representative body. Most witnesses had suggested that regional operations could be improved, but they were strongly in favour of having a national, elected Indigenous representative body. Deep concerns were expressed about the disempowerment of Indigenous peoples. One of the recommendations was that the government "give active support and funding to the formation of a national Indigenous elected representative body, and provide it with ongoing funding".[17]

The dismantling of ATSIC was seen by many commentators as harmful to Aboriginal people in Australia.[18] In 2009, Lowitja O'Donoghue expressed her opinion that reform of the agency would have been better than establishing a new agency which has been costly and might suffer similar problems as its predecessor, such as nepotism.[19]

ATSIC was criticised by a government advisory panel in 2009 for having been dominated by males.[20]
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