Australian Politics Forum - The Aboriginal Voice referendum

Karnal

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1350 - Mar 27^th, 2023 at 1:11am

Frank wrote on Mar 26^th, 2023 at 11:07am:

Karnal wrote on Mar 25^th, 2023 at 6:48pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 25^th, 2023 at 6:13pm:

issuevoter wrote on Mar 25^th, 2023 at 6:01pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 25^th, 2023 at 9:17am:

Recognition should be in the Constitution.

Voice should just be legislated and then the hundred government bodies which exist solely for ATSI can be audited and scrapped where overlapping exists.

I don't agree with constitutional amendments based on race. When the Commonwealth got around to including Aboriginals as citizens, the idea was one people, and multiculturalism, as an ideal, was supposed to clarify citizenship for others also.

The 1967 referendum WAS about race c- not treating the Aboriginal race differently but making laws for them as necessary.

A race based political Voice is different. It is about Aborigines making laws for everyone else: co-sovereignty, repossession, treaty, rent, diktat.

I think he's got it.

Took you a while, dear chap, but you are a New Australian.

A constitutional voice is about establishing a federal body that can't be disbanded by certain, ahem, political currents. I'm sure you know what I mean.

Don't like it? Don't vote.

Cunning, no?

So a "diversity" of power by race will be "our" strength.

Not you, old boy, you'll be voting for Mette, you silly old thing.

We'll vote how we choose. Rich multicultural, all that.

You feel free to vote on Bachelor Wants A Wife, mkay?

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Bias_2012

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1351 - Mar 27^th, 2023 at 1:38am

Muslims will want a Voice after this Abo one ... Islam is not just a religion, it's a way of life. They want special time intervals at work to pray to Allah ... workplaces to become mosques

Traditional Aussies in the bush will have to get their Voice also, living in the bush is vastly different to living in the big cities

Who else needs a Voice? probably quite a few

My village needs a Voice, it has no curb & guttering, no footpaths, no stormwater drainage, no sealed street roads, not enough street lighting, no mobile reception, no Council slashing of tall grass, no flood mitigation, no working Telstra public phone booth (it takes your money but doesn't ring through). My village needs government grants, our local government is skint. Many other villages need basic infrastructure also

We can't let the Aboriginals be the only ones to get a Voice, that would only discriminate against everyone else

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 83830 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum Reply #1352 - Mar 27^th, 2023 at 9:53am White Australia demands a Voice NOW!!
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Gnads

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1353 - Mar 27^th, 2023 at 10:35am

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 26^th, 2023 at 1:31pm:

SA becomes first Australian jurisdiction to create First Nations Voice to Parliament as historic bill passes Cool

Yeah SA is full of far left woke wankers ..... you being a typical example.

Sth Aust has the least Aboriginal Parliamentarian with 1 Kyam Maher( sounds Jewish) & he's the Attorney General so it's not hard to see where the push is coming from ......

& you're all feeling guilty. Grin

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Gnads

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1354 - Mar 27^th, 2023 at 10:37am

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 26^th, 2023 at 2:15pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 26^th, 2023 at 1:36pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 26^th, 2023 at 1:33pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 26^th, 2023 at 1:31pm:

SA becomes first Australian jurisdiction to create First Nations Voice to Parliament as historic bill passes Cool

Without changing the SA constitution.

And THAT is the entire point.... an advisory only body does not need to be enshrined in the Constitution.

Depends on how long you expect it to last, Graps. Outside the constitution it will only last as long as labor is in power. In the constitution it will take another referendum to remove it. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

The very reason why it shouldn't be there. Roll Eyes

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Bias_2012 Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 10742 Gender:	Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum Reply #1355 - Mar 27^th, 2023 at 11:38am Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 27^th, 2023 at 9:53am: White Australia demands a Voice NOW!! That's right, and we demand it now, we've lost enough rights already, there has to be a "Great Restoration"
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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1356 - Mar 27^th, 2023 at 11:49am

Frank wrote on Mar 26^th, 2023 at 1:33pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 26^th, 2023 at 1:31pm:

SA becomes first Australian jurisdiction to create First Nations Voice to Parliament as historic bill passes Cool

Without changing the SA constitution.

Heard the SA premier say today: "we don't expect any "quick" (sic!) changes for blacks...maybe the vote will have an effect in..... decades".

Now there's a premier with ambition.....

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Karnal

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1357 - Mar 28^th, 2023 at 12:05am

Bias_2012 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2023 at 1:38am:

Muslims will want a Voice after this Abo one ... Islam is not just a religion, it's a way of life. They want special time intervals at work to pray to Allah ... workplaces to become mosques

Traditional Aussies in the bush will have to get their Voice also, living in the bush is vastly different to living in the big cities

Who else needs a Voice? probably quite a few

My village needs a Voice, it has no curb & guttering, no footpaths, no stormwater drainage, no sealed street roads, not enough street lighting, no mobile reception, no Council slashing of tall grass, no flood mitigation, no working Telstra public phone booth (it takes your money but doesn't ring through). My village needs government grants, our local government is skint. Many other villages need basic infrastructure also

We can't let the Aboriginals be the only ones to get a Voice, that would only discriminate against everyone else

Boongs are not a race!

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1358 - Mar 28^th, 2023 at 3:25pm

Bias_2012 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2023 at 11:38am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 27^th, 2023 at 9:53am:

White Australia demands a Voice NOW!!

That's right, and we demand it now, we've lost enough rights already, there has to be a "Great Restoration"

You mean the "rights" to decent government services (lack of which you complained about in a previous post)?

Note, neoliberal free markets won't provide those services.

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Captain Caveman Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6211 Gender:	Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum Reply #1359 - Mar 28^th, 2023 at 3:53pm Don't let the corporate gov fkkk with the constitution. They do it once, they'll expect to do it all the time. The constitution recognises everyone already. Tell the corporate government to farrkkk off.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1360 - Mar 28^th, 2023 at 4:04pm

Captain Caveman wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 3:53pm:

Don't let the corporate gov fkkk with the constitution.
They do it once, they'll expect to do it all the time.
The constitution recognises everyone already.

Since the 1967 referendum, at least...

Quote:

Tell the corporate government to farrkkk off.

The issue is good governance...

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Frank

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1361 - Mar 28^th, 2023 at 9:06pm

A bunch of toxic idiots.

Hiding legal advice on Voice is untenable
The government is refusing to release the advice of the Commonwealth solicitor-general on the Indigenous Voice, but the public is unlikely to buy its argument.

The government’s refusal to release the advice of the Commonwealth solicitor-general on the Indigenous Voice to parliament is untenable – and it has only itself to blame.

Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus has tried over the past week to explain why the public won’t get to see what the government’s chief legal adviser thinks of the legal impact of enshrining the advisory body in the Constitution.

Dreyfus has been doing a terrible job, getting on a high horse about “the way things are done” and splitting hairs in response to reasonable questions about comparisons with advice provided on Scott Morrison’s secret ministries.

The AG says we can’t see the advice from Solicitor-General Stephen Donaghue, KC, on the Voice because it would be “inconsistent with long-standing practice of successive governments, including the government for the last nine years”.

But every inquisitor on either radio or TV has pointed out that Prime Minister Anthony Albanese was very happy to release the advice from Donaghue that skewered Morrison’s five secret portfolios as having “fundamentally undermined” principles of responsible government.

Dreyfus’ best line – that Morrison operated in secret while the Voice is “public” – demonstrates the weakness of his argument. It’s not, as he insisted to Neil Mitchell of 3AW on Monday, “a very, very, very different situation”.

The government might have to find a way to get Solicitor-General Stephen Donaghue on the record. Alex Ellinghausen

When the government wanted to make a political point on the Morrison ministries it was happy to release the advice.

As Mitchell said: “You have secret advice, which we can’t hear, that has been released – advice has been released by your government in the past as recently as a few months ago. This is even more in the public interest than what Scott Morrison did.”

The most notable change in the Voice wording is in the third clause of the constitutional amendment. The words have been reordered and “including” added to list its powers, to underline that parliament will control how the Voice operates and the legal effect of its representations.

The original clause said parliament would have “power to make laws with respect to the composition, functions, powers and procedures”. Now it says it will have “power to make laws with respect to matters relating to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice, including its composition, functions, powers and procedures”.

The government might have to find a way to get Donaghue on the record if it is to make a convincing case to voters that this won’t lead to 10 years of litigation – and untold disruption to the public service as decisions are held up waiting for representations by the Voice.
AFR

Écrasez l’Infame

. This infamous referendum must be crushed.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1362 - Mar 28^th, 2023 at 9:29pm

Frank wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 9:06pm:

Écrasez l’Infame. This infamous referendum must be crushed.

well..ok, the quicker the better; and then the nation will have to face up to the causes of entrenched poverty: "poverty is the worst type of violence": M. Gandhi.

Gandhi was talking about the violence of the British Empire manifested in the loss of the home garments industry in India - suppressed by the British cotton mill owners.

In the case of Oz blacks, the violence is systemic, as blacks are forced onto the unemployment scrap heap by a dysfunctional economic system.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1363 - Mar 28^th, 2023 at 10:50pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 4:04pm:

Captain Caveman wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 3:53pm:

Don't let the corporate gov fkkk with the constitution.
They do it once, they'll expect to do it all the time.
The constitution recognises everyone already.

Since the 1967 referendum, at least...

Quote:

Tell the corporate government to farrkkk off.

The issue is good governance...

The constitution and poor governance are two separate issues - just like recognition and a Voice are two totally separate issues.

Oh - ONLY since 1967? 56 years of (gasps) full recognition. Longer than most Aborigines around have been alive ... just a gleam in their mum's gin bottle and their dad's beer, eh? Jeez - who'd 've thunk that the Aborigines still need some voice outside of being citizens like everyone else, and that so many useless tools would think that was perfectly all right and provided equality and 'justice'.

You are so difficult to train in the simple things.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Frank

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1364 - Mar 29^th, 2023 at 9:52am

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 9:29pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 9:06pm:

Écrasez l’Infame. This infamous referendum must be crushed.

well..ok, the quicker the better; and then the nation will have to face up to the causes of entrenched poverty: "poverty is the worst type of violence": M. Gandhi.

Gandhi was talking about the violence of the British Empire manifested in the loss of the home garments industry in India - suppressed by the British cotton mill owners.

In the case of Oz blacks, the violence is systemic, as blacks are forced onto the unemployment scrap heap by a dysfunctional economic system.

They are not forced by anyone but their own families, communities, 'elders' who not only tolerate but model self-degrading behaviour, dropping out of school, negligence, sloth, violence, brutality, alcoholism, rape, crime, lawlessness. These are ALL acts entirely within the power of Aboriginal individuals and communities. What is happening to Aborigines in remote communities is ENTIRELY their own making. It is entirely about Aborigines brutalising themselves.

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Poll
Question: Will the referendum be voted in?
* This poll has now closed *
No 42 (75.0%) Yes 14 (25.0%) Total votes: 56 « Last Modified by: Redmond Neck on: Feb 25^th, 2023 at 11:17am »