Australian Politics Forum - The Aboriginal Voice referendum

thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1365 - Mar 29^th, 2023 at 10:55am

Frank wrote on Mar 29^th, 2023 at 9:52am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 9:29pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 9:06pm:

Écrasez l’Infame. This infamous referendum must be crushed.

well..ok, the quicker the better; and then the nation will have to face up to the causes of entrenched poverty: "poverty is the worst type of violence": M. Gandhi.

Gandhi was talking about the violence of the British Empire manifested in the loss of the home garments industry in India - suppressed by the British cotton mill owners.

In the case of Oz blacks, the violence is systemic, as blacks are forced onto the unemployment scrap heap by a dysfunctional economic system.

They are not forced by anyone but their own families, communities, 'elders' who not only tolerate but model self-degrading behaviour, dropping out of school, negligence, sloth, violence, brutality, alcoholism, rape, crime, lawlessness. These are ALL acts entirely within the power of Aboriginal individuals and communities. What is happening to Aborigines in remote communities is ENTIRELY their own making. It is entirely about Aborigines brutalising themselves.

Your narrative is disproved by one simple fact: there are c. 1.25 million involuntary un/underemployed whites in Oz.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 83829 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum Reply #1366 - Mar 29^th, 2023 at 11:26am
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Frank

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1367 - Mar 29^th, 2023 at 12:48pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 29^th, 2023 at 10:55am:

Frank wrote on Mar 29^th, 2023 at 9:52am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 9:29pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 9:06pm:

Écrasez l’Infame. This infamous referendum must be crushed.

well..ok, the quicker the better; and then the nation will have to face up to the causes of entrenched poverty: "poverty is the worst type of violence": M. Gandhi.

Gandhi was talking about the violence of the British Empire manifested in the loss of the home garments industry in India - suppressed by the British cotton mill owners.

In the case of Oz blacks, the violence is systemic, as blacks are forced onto the unemployment scrap heap by a dysfunctional economic system.

They are not forced by anyone but their own families, communities, 'elders' who not only tolerate but model self-degrading behaviour, dropping out of school, negligence, sloth, violence, brutality, alcoholism, rape, crime, lawlessness. These are ALL acts entirely within the power of Aboriginal individuals and communities. What is happening to Aborigines in remote communities is ENTIRELY their own making. It is entirely about Aborigines brutalising themselves.

Your narrative is disproved by one simple fact: there are c. 1.25 million involuntary un/underemployed whites in Oz.

Bollocks on stilts, stupid parrot.

Why aren't ALL unemployed people, throughout the ages, drunken, lawless, violent criminals with all their children dropping out of school and afraid to go home because of the bedlam there?

Because it has nothing to do with socio economics and everything to do with personal dignity and responsibility - or the total and utter abnegation of it, which is what you are parrotting mindlessly at every opportunity.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1368 - Mar 29^th, 2023 at 1:20pm

Frank wrote on Mar 29^th, 2023 at 12:48pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 29^th, 2023 at 10:55am:

Frank wrote on Mar 29^th, 2023 at 9:52am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 9:29pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 9:06pm:

Écrasez l’Infame. This infamous referendum must be crushed.

well..ok, the quicker the better; and then the nation will have to face up to the causes of entrenched poverty: "poverty is the worst type of violence": M. Gandhi.

Gandhi was talking about the violence of the British Empire manifested in the loss of the home garments industry in India - suppressed by the British cotton mill owners.

In the case of Oz blacks, the violence is systemic, as blacks are forced onto the unemployment scrap heap by a dysfunctional economic system.

They are not forced by anyone but their own families, communities, 'elders' who not only tolerate but model self-degrading behaviour, dropping out of school, negligence, sloth, violence, brutality, alcoholism, rape, crime, lawlessness. These are ALL acts entirely within the power of Aboriginal individuals and communities. What is happening to Aborigines in remote communities is ENTIRELY their own making. It is entirely about Aborigines brutalising themselves.

Your narrative is disproved by one simple fact: there are c. 1.25 million involuntary un/underemployed whites in Oz.

Bollocks on stilts, stupid parrot.

Well... at least there is more to come - hopefully debate; let's read on:

Quote:

Why aren't ALL unemployed people, throughout the ages, drunken, lawless, violent criminals with all their children dropping out of school and afraid to go home because of the bedlam there?

because we all have different strengths, and different external supports. Understand?

Quote:

Because it has nothing to do with socio economics and everything to do with personal dignity and responsibility - or the total and utter abnegation of it,

Too 'black and white': grey is the mixture in the real world.

Quote:

which is what you are parrotting mindlessly at every opportunity.

refuted abo...oh, never mind.

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Frank

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1369 - Mar 29^th, 2023 at 3:38pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 29^th, 2023 at 1:20pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 29^th, 2023 at 12:48pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 29^th, 2023 at 10:55am:

Frank wrote on Mar 29^th, 2023 at 9:52am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 9:29pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 9:06pm:

Écrasez l’Infame. This infamous referendum must be crushed.

well..ok, the quicker the better; and then the nation will have to face up to the causes of entrenched poverty: "poverty is the worst type of violence": M. Gandhi.

Gandhi was talking about the violence of the British Empire manifested in the loss of the home garments industry in India - suppressed by the British cotton mill owners.

In the case of Oz blacks, the violence is systemic, as blacks are forced onto the unemployment scrap heap by a dysfunctional economic system.

They are not forced by anyone but their own families, communities, 'elders' who not only tolerate but model self-degrading behaviour, dropping out of school, negligence, sloth, violence, brutality, alcoholism, rape, crime, lawlessness. These are ALL acts entirely within the power of Aboriginal individuals and communities. What is happening to Aborigines in remote communities is ENTIRELY their own making. It is entirely about Aborigines brutalising themselves.

Your narrative is disproved by one simple fact: there are c. 1.25 million involuntary un/underemployed whites in Oz.

Bollocks on stilts, stupid parrot.

Well... at least there is more to come - hopefully debate; let's read on:

Quote:

Why aren't ALL unemployed people, throughout the ages, drunken, lawless, violent criminals with all their children dropping out of school and afraid to go home because of the bedlam there?

because we all have different strengths, and different external supports. Understand?

Oh, so not socio economic but different character and personality.

You are parrotting total crap, excusing Aborigines for things you would find intolerable in your own circle. You are the real race baiting racist for relentlessly making excuses for behaviour you would never exhibit yourself and would not tolerate in your own circle.

Poverty is a stupid and lazy excuse moral degeneracy, for raping your niece, beating your wife and neglecting your children and getting shitfaced by non every day. It is in EVERYONE'S power NOT to behave like that, no matter what socio economic crispy excuses you try to make for them.

Are you not raping your niece, beating your wife and neglecting your children simply because you have more money and a job? That would be monstrous but that is the crap you are parrotting.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1370 - Mar 29^th, 2023 at 4:48pm

Frank wrote on Mar 29^th, 2023 at 3:38pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 29^th, 2023 at 1:20pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 29^th, 2023 at 12:48pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 29^th, 2023 at 10:55am:

Frank wrote on Mar 29^th, 2023 at 9:52am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 9:29pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 9:06pm:

Écrasez l’Infame. This infamous referendum must be crushed.

well..ok, the quicker the better; and then the nation will have to face up to the causes of entrenched poverty: "poverty is the worst type of violence": M. Gandhi.

Gandhi was talking about the violence of the British Empire manifested in the loss of the home garments industry in India - suppressed by the British cotton mill owners.

In the case of Oz blacks, the violence is systemic, as blacks are forced onto the unemployment scrap heap by a dysfunctional economic system.

They are not forced by anyone but their own families, communities, 'elders' who not only tolerate but model self-degrading behaviour, dropping out of school, negligence, sloth, violence, brutality, alcoholism, rape, crime, lawlessness. These are ALL acts entirely within the power of Aboriginal individuals and communities. What is happening to Aborigines in remote communities is ENTIRELY their own making. It is entirely about Aborigines brutalising themselves.

Your narrative is disproved by one simple fact: there are c. 1.25 million involuntary un/underemployed whites in Oz.

Bollocks on stilts, stupid parrot.

Well... at least there is more to come - hopefully debate; let's read on:

Quote:

Why aren't ALL unemployed people, throughout the ages, drunken, lawless, violent criminals with all their children dropping out of school and afraid to go home because of the bedlam there?

because we all have different strengths, and different external supports. Understand?

Oh, so not socio economic but different character and personality.

all of the above......

Quote:

You are parrotting total crap, excusing Aborigines for things you would find intolerable in your own circle. You are the real race baiting racist for relentlessly making excuses for behaviour you would never exhibit yourself and would not tolerate in your own circle.

Certainly I would find the behaviours we are talking about intolerable...

Quote:

Poverty is a stupid and lazy excuse moral degeneracy, for raping your niece, beating your wife and neglecting your children and getting shitfaced by non every day. It is in EVERYONE'S power NOT to behave like that, no matter what socio economic crispy excuses you try to make for them.

You are denying the association between poverty and crime (which however doesn't mean a direct causation in all cases, as noted above).

https://digitalcommons.bryant.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1052&context=eeb#:...

The Relationship Between Poverty and Crime:
A Cross Section Analysis
Luke Fleming
Abstract:
This paper compares the crime rates, poverty rates, and other economic statistics to determine if there is a relationship amongst the variables. The highest crime rates per capita in the world exist in developing countries; these countries also have very high rates of poverty. Is it a coincidence, or is there actually some substance to these facts? Crime is a complicated issue, and other variables like education, healthcare, and housing have to be taken into consideration.
The results indicate that there is a relationship between certain types of crime and poverty, and
that income inequality is significant to all types of crime.

Quote:

Are you not raping your niece, beating your wife and neglecting your children simply because you have more money and a job? That would be monstrous but that is the crap you are parrotting.

incorrect on all counts; and certainly a job and more money can assist in avoiding dysfunctional behaviour, as suggested by the article (ie, more poverty, more of "certain types of crime").

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« Last Edit: Mar 29^th, 2023 at 4:59pm by thegreatdivide »

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Gnads

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1371 - Mar 29^th, 2023 at 5:36pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 29^th, 2023 at 10:55am:

Frank wrote on Mar 29^th, 2023 at 9:52am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 9:29pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 9:06pm:

Écrasez l’Infame. This infamous referendum must be crushed.

well..ok, the quicker the better; and then the nation will have to face up to the causes of entrenched poverty: "poverty is the worst type of violence": M. Gandhi.

Gandhi was talking about the violence of the British Empire manifested in the loss of the home garments industry in India - suppressed by the British cotton mill owners.

In the case of Oz blacks, the violence is systemic, as blacks are forced onto the unemployment scrap heap by a dysfunctional economic system.

They are not forced by anyone but their own families, communities, 'elders' who not only tolerate but model self-degrading behaviour, dropping out of school, negligence, sloth, violence, brutality, alcoholism, rape, crime, lawlessness. These are ALL acts entirely within the power of Aboriginal individuals and communities. What is happening to Aborigines in remote communities is ENTIRELY their own making. It is entirely about Aborigines brutalising themselves.

Your narrative is disproved by one simple fact: there are c. 1.25 million involuntary un/underemployed whites in Oz.

That has nothing to do with remote Aboriginal communities .... nothing.

That has everything to do with employer groups & what the govt of the day allows them to do regarding employment.

There's nothing stopping Aboriginals in remote communities shifting to become numbers in those statistics.

They are apart because of their choices.

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Frank

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1372 - Mar 29^th, 2023 at 9:27pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 29^th, 2023 at 10:55am:

Frank wrote on Mar 29^th, 2023 at 9:52am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 9:29pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 28^th, 2023 at 9:06pm:

Écrasez l’Infame. This infamous referendum must be crushed.

well..ok, the quicker the better; and then the nation will have to face up to the causes of entrenched poverty: "poverty is the worst type of violence": M. Gandhi.

Gandhi was talking about the violence of the British Empire manifested in the loss of the home garments industry in India - suppressed by the British cotton mill owners.

In the case of Oz blacks, the violence is systemic, as blacks are forced onto the unemployment scrap heap by a dysfunctional economic system.

They are not forced by anyone but their own families, communities, 'elders' who not only tolerate but model self-degrading behaviour, dropping out of school, negligence, sloth, violence, brutality, alcoholism, rape, crime, lawlessness. These are ALL acts entirely within the power of Aboriginal individuals and communities. What is happening to Aborigines in remote communities is ENTIRELY their own making. It is entirely about Aborigines brutalising themselves.

Your narrative is disproved by one simple fact: there are c. 1.25 million involuntary un/underemployed whites in Oz.

And there are 13.4 million who are employed.
How did they manage? 10 times more than your grossly inflated number. How did SO many more manage if the 'system's stacked against them?

Why are they pouring in from every corner of the globe if it is such a hell hole in Australia?

Your mindless, idiotic rhetoric is invariably running away with you, parrot.

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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 40938	Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum Reply #1373 - Mar 30^th, 2023 at 12:27pm Bill to trigger Voice referendum introduced to parliament
Back to top	Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... IP Logged

Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1374 - Mar 30^th, 2023 at 12:35pm

How did Bill get into it? Not Bill Posters? I thought he was being prosecuted....

Isn't that nice - they managed to get as far as saying - 'hey, people ... we've put it up for discussion in Parlie now - we might even get a vote on it some time soon! In Parlie, I mean - the big vote - of youse lot - might take a little longer..."

Anyway - by the time it hits the streets it will be a shot duck. Only a total fool would vote for such a thing.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1375 - Mar 30^th, 2023 at 12:49pm

With the ABC news put out - I've learned to first read the lies and then find the truth half way down the page....

"The bill already has the support needed for it to pass the house and later the senate." + motherhood statements ad nauseum - as ad nauseum as welcomes to our own country by now + statements about how this miracle of social engineering will close all the gaps - sure - it will close any gaps in the wallets of the fat cats promoting it.

Many a dope would confuse that with the referendum having all the support it needs..... so let's move on to the truth here:-

Now we move to the good oil:-

"The legislation will enable a referendum to be held for Australians to vote on whether to enshrine a proposed Voice to Parliament into the constitution, and formally recognise Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the First Peoples of Australia.

Mr Dreyfus outlined the purpose of the Voice to Parliament, which would be a body made up of Indigenous people, represented by local Indigenous communities, which could provide advice on issues that affect Indigenous people differently.

The body would be "proactive" and would not have to wait to be asked for its views on an issue, but the parliament would also not be obliged to follow its advice."

'formally'recognise? Why bother - it's accepted in the real world, and no special rights accrue to it.... UNLESS some dope gives those to them... there is no schoolyard:- "I was here first!".. times are way different now and you cannot retro-colonialise a nation when you are a small minority.

"differently"?? First time I've heard that word in the wording..... does it exist in the actual wording (NO! so that is a lie.)? What EXACTLY affects Indigenous people differently? Well - sure - demands for reparations (LMFAO) affect only Indigenous - they're the only ones demanding those...... but I'm sure others will get on board.... the sheilas, the poofs... jeez - not the men though who did all the hard yards and the dying, etc eh?

And it will be proactive - in other words an endless stream of demands put to government across the board on any and every subject, present, past, or future, and though the government doesn't have to accept it - the door is open to lawfare endless, and since it is enshrined in the constitution, only a war or a fresh referendum can remove it.

Wait until the current is passed through that barbed wire..... and this nonsense fails.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1376 - Mar 30^th, 2023 at 2:11pm

Frank wrote on Mar 29^th, 2023 at 9:27pm:

And there are 13.4 million who are employed.

Correct, so let's see what you've got for the 1.25 million who can't find work.

Quote:

How did they manage? 10 times more than your grossly inflated number. How did SO many more manage if the 'system's stacked against them?

The system's stacked against those who are the least competitive in the available job market, hence are involuntarily unemployed.

The employed managed because they successfully competed in the available job market.

Quote:

Why are they pouring in from every corner of the globe if it is such a hell hole in Australia?

Because poverty is relative, especially when war and social unrest are thrown into the mix.

Quote:

Your mindless, idiotic rhetoric is invariably running away with you, parrot.

Refuted above....

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Frank

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1377 - Mar 30^th, 2023 at 3:24pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 30^th, 2023 at 2:11pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 29^th, 2023 at 9:27pm:

And there are 13.4 million who are employed.

Correct, so let's see what you've got for the 1.25 million who can't find work.

Quote:

How did they manage? 10 times more than your grossly inflated number. How did SO many more manage if the 'system's stacked against them?

The system's stacked against those who are the least competitive in the available job market, hence are involuntarily unemployed.

The employed managed because they successfully competed in the available job market.

Quote:

Why are they pouring in from every corner of the globe if it is such a hell hole in Australia?

Because poverty is relative, especially when war and social unrest are thrown into the mix.

Quote:

Your mindless, idiotic rhetoric is invariably running away with you, parrot.

Refuted above....

Yeah, a semi illiterate Arab with two wives and 8 kids or an illiterate Aborigine with 3 kids would get more in social security than he could earn.

What jobs would you guarantee for them? Would they turn up for it?

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« Last Edit: Mar 30^th, 2023 at 9:22pm by Frank »

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1378 - Mar 30^th, 2023 at 4:15pm

All positions are flexible hours and optional conditions to suit..... salaries are dependent on performance of duties and not on actual presentation for work at specific times in accordance with local conditions and traditional terms of employment ....loadings may apply for working in hot or isolated conditions or other extremes ... remote area income tax concessions apply .....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1379 - Mar 30^th, 2023 at 8:44pm

Frank wrote on Mar 30^th, 2023 at 3:24pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 30^th, 2023 at 2:11pm:

Frank wrote on Mar 29^th, 2023 at 9:27pm:

And there are 13.4 million who are employed.

Correct, so let's see what you've got for the 1.25 million who can't find work.

Quote:

How did they manage? 10 times more than your grossly inflated number. How did SO many more manage if the 'system's stacked against them?

The system's stacked against those who are the least competitive in the available job market, hence are involuntarily unemployed.

The employed managed because they successfully competed in the available job market.

Quote:

Why are they pouring in from every corner of the globe if it is such a hell hole in Australia?

Because poverty is relative, especially when war and social unrest are thrown into the mix.

Quote:

Your mindless, idiotic rhetoric is invariably running away with you, parrot.

Refuted above....

Yeah, a semi illiterate Arab with two wives and 8 kids of an illiterate Aborigine with 3 kids would get more in social security than he could earn.

Under the present poverty industry arrangements, yes.

But a JG system would have different arrangements for such family units. eg, lower support payments for below working age kids, since the working parent(s) will receive a better pay than the dole.

Quote:

What jobs would you guarantee for them? Would they turn up for it?

An above poverty wage is a much more attractive option than poverty-level dole.

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Poll
Question: Will the referendum be voted in?
* This poll has now closed *
No 42 (75.0%) Yes 14 (25.0%) Total votes: 56 « Last Modified by: Redmond Neck on: Feb 25^th, 2023 at 11:17am »