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Poll closed Poll
Question: Will the referendum be voted in?
*** This poll has now closed ***


No    
  42 (75.0%)
Yes    
  14 (25.0%)




Total votes: 56
« Last Modified by: Redmond Neck on: Feb 25th, 2023 at 11:17am »

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The Aboriginal Voice referendum (Read 91076 times)
Frank
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1395 - Apr 1st, 2023 at 9:34am
 
Parliament will not be able to “shut the voice up” and the Indigenous body will speak to “all parts of the government” including the cabinet, ministers, public servants as well as statutory offices and agencies from the Reserve Bank to Centrelink, according to top referendum working group member Megan Davis.

A key architect of the Uluru Statement From the Heart and one of six members of the working group that negotiated the final wording of the constitutional amendment with the government, Professor Davis said parliament could not stop the voice from making representations or “shut the voice up”.

The clarification on the broad remit of the Indigenous voice comes after Anthony Albanese this week argued that parliament would have primacy over “what the voice will consider” – a remark that was corrected by legal experts who explained this would be ­beyond the reach of politicians.

Professor Davis and fellow constitutional law expert ­Gabrielle Appleby from UNSW, writing in The Weekend Australian, argue that the new body will not be “limited to matters specifically or directly related to ­Aboriginal and Torres Strait ­Islander peoples” and it will have the power to “speak on a broad range of ­matters”.

“That is the point,” the professors write.


“The voice will be able to speak to all parts of the government, ­including the cabinet, ministers, public servants, and independent statutory offices and agencies – such as the Reserve Bank, as well as a wide array of other agencies including, to name a few, ­Centrelink, the Great Barrier Marine Park Authority and the Ombudsman – on matters relating to ­Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people.

“This isn’t to be feared.”

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/politicians-told-you-wont-shut-...

Modest change, eh, sneaky Albo?

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
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Captain Nemo
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1396 - Apr 1st, 2023 at 10:32am
 


Grin
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The 2025 election could be a shocker.
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The Heartless Felon
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1397 - Apr 1st, 2023 at 10:38am
 
Frank wrote on Apr 1st, 2023 at 9:34am:
Parliament will not be able to “shut the voice up” and the Indigenous body will speak to “all parts of the government” including the cabinet, ministers, public servants as well as statutory offices and agencies from the Reserve Bank to Centrelink, according to top referendum working group member Megan Davis.

A key architect of the Uluru Statement From the Heart and one of six members of the working group that negotiated the final wording of the constitutional amendment with the government, Professor Davis said parliament could not stop the voice from making representations or “shut the voice up”.

The clarification on the broad remit of the Indigenous voice comes after Anthony Albanese this week argued that parliament would have primacy over “what the voice will consider” – a remark that was corrected by legal experts who explained this would be ­beyond the reach of politicians.

Professor Davis and fellow constitutional law expert ­Gabrielle Appleby from UNSW, writing in The Weekend Australian, argue that the new body will not be “limited to matters specifically or directly related to ­Aboriginal and Torres Strait ­Islander peoples” and it will have the power to “speak on a broad range of ­matters”.

“That is the point,” the professors write.


“The voice will be able to speak to all parts of the government, ­including the cabinet, ministers, public servants, and independent statutory offices and agencies – such as the Reserve Bank, as well as a wide array of other agencies including, to name a few, ­Centrelink, the Great Barrier Marine Park Authority and the Ombudsman – on matters relating to ­Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people.

“This isn’t to be feared.”

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/politicians-told-you-wont-shut-...

Modest change, eh, sneaky Albo?



Told ya!
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1398 - Apr 1st, 2023 at 11:54am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 31st, 2023 at 9:44pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 31st, 2023 at 1:36pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 31st, 2023 at 12:06pm:
A JG is not the answer - that is a totally unproven idea and without work there are no jobs.

Star Counter....


"Without work there are no jobs"?

A statement of the bleeding obvious? (my turn...)

That's why we need government to act as employer of last resort.


But it's not too late to learn, google the 'Powell Manifesto' (1971) and its determination - and success - to put corporations back in charge of US capitalism, by reducing union power and government intervention in the free-market economy.


Jesus, lad - employer to do what? 


To create jobs  - determined as useful by the local council, when the private sector fails to employ all the available labour. 

Quote:
Everything has been pointed out to you time and again about how things have been tried over and over, and how giving someone a few hours work is less than useless.


Yes, but your lack of imagination,  or refusal to consider the amount of useful work in any community which is NOT done by the private sector, is the reason why I rejected your application (sic)  to the Alice Springs Town Council for position of JG officer.

Quote:
You will not get some people to come to work when they can do better not coming to work,


they can't, by definition: the dole is poverty level  subsistence, whereas a full time above poverty wage engenders personal growth, personal responsibility, and personal agency.   

Quote:
and my experience is that some will see this as a golden opportunity to go on compo and DSP for life.


Your experience is in the current poverty industry environment, maintained by the current dysfunctional neoliberal orthodoxy.
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Brian Ross
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1399 - Apr 1st, 2023 at 1:08pm
 
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Valkie
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1400 - Apr 1st, 2023 at 1:22pm
 
We already waste billions of dollars  by throwing it at these worthless individuals every year.

They cannot even manage themselves, as seen in the latest Alice Springs saga.
A saga repeated in every country town in Australia.

This voice will be nothing but yet another junket for whit abbos to suck even more money from people who actually work for a living.

It's so sad that this "Nation" is totally and exclusively funded by those who they hate.
How every cent they have or get comes from them BEGGING for money from white people.
It's a "Nation" that survives on begging, impossible for it to stand alone, knowing all the while that it's the whites who hold their lives in our hands.
No wonder they hate themselves.

Even the rag they use as a flag wasn't designed or even made by them.
The smoking ceremony is a farce perpetrated by parasites looking for yet another handout.
The lies of stolen generations, in reality children saved from abuse and starvation from their worthless parents.
The lies of sacred ground, which once handed over is sold and the money wasted.

What a culture to hold allegiance to.
Lies, begging, destitute, incapable of working for a living and of course begging.

What sort of moron would vote to give this worthless kultcha a voice?

Not me, that's for sure.
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« Last Edit: Apr 1st, 2023 at 5:08pm by Valkie »  

I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1401 - Apr 1st, 2023 at 1:27pm
 
Oh, Matty, Matty, you lost a bet and promised to leave forever.  You seem to have been resurrected.  Oh, dearie, dearie, me, what a WOFTAM.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1402 - Apr 1st, 2023 at 1:31pm
 
"To create jobs  - determined as useful by the local council, when the private sector fails to employ all the available labour."

So the 'authorities' just get to create these jobs, real or not, deem them as 'useful' without so much as a by your leave from the constituency, pay for them out of the consolidated revenue and holdings of that constituency, and simply give them tho whoever they wish?

Do you not see the inherent danger in this?  Of government at any level getting to make all the decisions without reference to the people?  It's called dictatorship or despotism.

Do you not see yet that sound economics depends on disparities in incomes, whether that be national or international?  How many times must I explain to you that the moment the cost of labour worldwide is the same - the alleged working man communist dream - all trade will cease since there is nothing to be gained, and we will be back to trading fish for vegetables at the market.  If every worker at Forlden Cars in Thailand or whatever earned the same as a car builder in Australia - what use is there in shifting to Thailand at all, since all the buyer here would do is pay for freight extra and profit as well while national income levels actually decrease and only the thieves and bandits earn heaps, and only a fool would enter such a deal?  How can you not see that these very things - by increasing demand for wages to keep up, and for incomes to keep up in those countries from which these industries have shifted just to continue to live and buy - lead to massive and never-ending rises in costs of living compared to incomes = inflation to the max - for the simple reason that the local money unit of each and every country will have the exact same demands  placed upon it - for more and more to buy less and less?

I told you in your incredibly right wing despotic governance style that the global economy is failing as we speak and yet you persist with silly ideas such as the individual here - who you simultaneously want to have zero personal sovereignty - is somehow responsible for the endemically poor via adherence to some mythical 'right wing ideology'.  You demand that the soul-less individual held in thrall to the state somehow change that state..... and yet you crush the very soul of individuality out of those individuals.

FASCIST!!
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« Last Edit: Apr 1st, 2023 at 1:53pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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Valkie
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1403 - Apr 1st, 2023 at 5:13pm
 
Look out Africa.
Look what happened when the turfed out all the white people, starvation, destruction millions dying.

But some Africans can actually work and know how to succeed, still the place fell apart.

Now without mob, none have any idea of what work is.
POut them in charge and they will think the money just magically appears, like their dole cheque.

We would be broke in 12 months.
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I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
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Jasin
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1404 - Apr 1st, 2023 at 5:24pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Apr 1st, 2023 at 1:27pm:
Oh, Matty, Matty, you lost a bet and promised to leave forever.  You seem to have been resurrected.  Oh, dearie, dearie, me, what a WOFTAM.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Oh shut up you closet gay with a freddy moustache and little 'love you long time' girlfriend.
He's a lot more entertaining a read than you'll ever achieve.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1405 - Apr 1st, 2023 at 5:32pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Apr 1st, 2023 at 1:31pm:
"To create jobs  - determined as useful by the local council, when the private sector fails to employ all the available labour."

So the 'authorities' just get to create these jobs, real or not, deem them as 'useful' without so much as a by your leave from the constituency, pay for them out of the consolidated revenue and holdings of that constituency, and simply give them tho whoever they wish?


These issues have been covered in the Job Guarantee thread, begun by Freediver (... he hoped to expose the impracticality of the JG, but was unable to do so...haven't heard from him since).

the JG is organized at the local council level, with local unemployed presenting for work deemed useful by the local community, with wages funded by the central (national) government.


Quote:
Do you not see the inherent danger in this? 


No, I see the social catastrophe emanating from  the current poverty industry with its poverty level dole.

Quote:
Of government at any level getting to make all the decisions without reference to the people?  It's called dictatorship or despotism.


Addressed above; local communities addressing local needs via the local council (ie local government)  is not despotism.

Quote:
Do you not see yet that sound economics depends on disparities in incomes, whether that be national or international?


I see it quite clearly: what I am requiring of a functional economy is an above poverty minimum wage.  Understand?  

Quote:
How many times must I explain to you that the moment the cost of labour worldwide is the same - the alleged working man communist dream - all trade will cease since there is nothing to be gained, and we will be back to trading fish for vegetables at the market.


Addressed and refuted above; I hope you can now see your error.

As for the world, there exists  sufficient food and materials to eradicate poverty - the neoliberal distribution and reward system is f**ked.

Quote:
If every worker at Forlden Cars in Thailand or whatever earned the same as a car builder in Australia - what use is there in shifting to Thailand at all, since all the buyer here would do is pay for freight extra and profit as well while national income levels actually decrease and only the thieves and bandits earn heaps, and only a fool would enter such a deal?  How can you not see that these very things - by increasing demand for wages to keep up, and for incomes to keep up in those countries from which these industries have shifted just to continue to live and buy - lead to massive and never-ending rises in costs of living compared to incomes = inflation to the max - for the simple reason that the local money unit of each and every country will have the exact same demands  placed upon it - for more and more to buy less and less?


Poorly managed, profit maximising  globalisation has indeed been a source of much suffering around the globe, even in the US (hence Trump's MAGA and "America First" policies).

Classical economist Ricardo's concept of "comparative advantage" is partly responsible. Indeed Oz ought to be able to make it's own PVs even if they are dearer than Chinese ones....or at least some mechanism to shield Oz - and all nations -  from unfair competition by the most advantaged nations, is necessary.      

Quote:
I told you in your incredibly right wing despotic governance style that the global economy is failing as we speak and yet you persist with silly ideas such as the individual here -


Addressed and refuted above; the least competitive  individuals (and nations)  must be supported by government, including international law.

Quote:
who you simultaneously want to have zero personal sovereignty - is somehow responsible for the endemically poor via adherence to some mythical 'right wing ideology'.
 

See how you have it all back to front?  

I want personal responsibility - and the right to above poverty employment (as stated in UNUDHR, Article 23) -  protected by national government and international law.

Quote:
You demand that the soul-less individual held in thrall to the state somehow change that state..... and yet you crush the very soul of individuality out of those individuals.


No individual is soul-less, but systemic poverty can strip him of self esteem, and channel him into crime. (did you see the link I provided, showing the association of crime  with poverty and extreme inequality?)

Quote:
FASCIST!!


Poor Graps - as always,  led astray by his delusional Libertarianism.

"All must obey rule of law, if all are to be free": Cicero.

ie, Law instituted by government.
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« Last Edit: Apr 1st, 2023 at 5:42pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1406 - Apr 1st, 2023 at 5:35pm
 
Then why do you persist with the 'job guarantee' furphy here, over and over?  Just to annoy people? Then leave it in the job guarantee thread and discuss the voice referendum instead of referring people to that strand in which they have zero interest because it will simply not work in any meaningful way.

If YOU wish to discuss it here - you respond HERE.  OK?  More twists than a barrel full of eels.

The 'voice' will NOT give a 'job guarantee' - it will pursue free money and endless perks and totally unwarranted control over natural features such as beaches and mountains and water course etc, for all Aborigines for doing nothing.  Wake up.

It is a recipe for civil war.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Gnads
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1407 - Apr 1st, 2023 at 5:48pm
 
Captain Nemo wrote on Apr 1st, 2023 at 10:32am:


Grin



Grin Grin So ironically funny.
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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Gnads
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1408 - Apr 1st, 2023 at 5:51pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Apr 1st, 2023 at 1:27pm:
Oh, Matty, Matty, you lost a bet and promised to leave forever.  You seem to have been resurrected.  Oh, dearie, dearie, me, what a WOFTAM.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


No.... that was Peccary you woke SJW dipstick.
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Black Orchid
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1409 - Apr 1st, 2023 at 5:58pm
 
New Zealands 'voice' to parliament has created immense racial separatism and violence and has deeply divided the country, which is what it is meant to do.
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