thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 17^th, 2023 at 9:56pm:

Not upset at all.
You are an idiot, parrotting crap.

You are oblivious, closed minded, dogmatic, idiotic. A parrot.
F off is correct.

Frank wrote on Apr 17^th, 2023 at 10:05pm:


er...you forgot to refute my argument

Please don't look in your mirrorrs, your wife won't be pleased......

Frank wrote on Apr 18^th, 2023 at 9:24am:


Sheridan and Albrechtsen are only concerned about the effects a yes vote will have on their own sorry asses, without saying how to close the gap.

They are probably as ideologically blind as you, content to say 'go get a job'  without offering the assistance required. Graps offered a method tonight .....but it will cost $billions, and he didn't say who would pay for it...

And Price is mainly pointing to child abuse as the problem to be fixed, presumably by identifying and locking up the trangressors.

But the Alice Springs Police Commissioner has identified  systemic, generational welfare dependency as a major part of the problem.

Quote:


Simplistic understanding of systemic, generational welfare dependency. .

Mundine is a fool trying to protect his own pockets.  It hasn't been established what form the voice will take. Each govt will be free to change the set up of the voice as it sees fit.  That is the very reason the proposed changes to the constitution only allow for a voice, and why it doesn't go into specifics of how it is to be set up.

John Smith wrote on Apr 19^th, 2023 at 8:41am:



The Calma Langton report outlines the structure of the voice to parliament as existing on three levels. Regional voices choose members of the national voice. And there are local voices that suddenly occur in the document without any introduction or explanation. I’m still not sure who the local voices will be or their function. Perhaps they will somehow make up the regional voices, but it’s not clear how this will happen, except to say they will be constructed around a process and principles.

It will be a long journey to get there. The process involves formal commitments from governments that translate into expected legislative processes at the state and territory, and also local government, levels.

Those of you who thought that some commonwealth legislation after the referendum was the end of it, think again. What’s proposed isn’t just legislation to establish a national voice. It is a “whole of government” co-ordination and collaboration with local and regional voices that will involve even more legislation.

A key purpose of this legislation is to set out “the recognition process and assessment criteria”.

This is legislation we currently know nothing about.

But it doesn’t stop there. There will be “a joint process between a prospective Local & Regional Voice and relevant governments to prepare for recognition, followed by an independent party verification of the assessment”. Who is this unknown “independent party”, or indeed many unknown relevant parties, that will guide ministers in their decision-making over the legislation that provides this recognition? And for a process so all-encompassing who’ll be left that’s independent?

The regions for the regional voice structures have yet to be determined. The original recommendation was for an arbitrary 35 regions, now reduced to 22 entirely new artificial regions imposed on Indigenous Australia. Each will appoint one member of the national voice, with the government appointing the remaining two.

Communities and governments will work together to negotiate the breakdown of the regions, “based on agreed parameters and guidance”. Is this bureaucratese for being dictated to? I can tell you now there’s no easy way for agreement over the boundaries of these regions or among the groups actually expected to coexist within them.

These regions bear absolutely no resemblance to the traditional owner groups and first nations and each contains a huge number of Aboriginal organisations. In a scathing observation in its submission to the Calma-Langton co-design group, Ngaanyatjarra Council said this could “effectively nullify authentic Indigenous voices, rendering them meaningless”.

The process also includes what is referred to as “transition to voice structures” with each regional voice and local voice to “build on existing arrangements”. What existing arrangements? No arrangement exists for appointing a representative in Canberra. Where there are none there will be a process of “designing the arrangements” by community-led “design groups”. Are we to have 22 more of these turgid design reports that take years and cost millions to produce?

Communities across each region (are these the same as the local voices?) will be supported to establish their own arrangements. Arrangements for what? Is this a means to choose the regional representatives to go to Canberra to sit on the national voice? Some other things this tome had no space for.

The report continues: “There will be structured, documented and transparent partnership arrangement between a Local & Regional Voice and governments, consistent with the principles. This includes agreed dispute resolution processes, including third party mediation as needed.” I can tell you now the disputes and mediation part of this function is going to be very busy.

Each local and regional voice will be supported by a secretariat or “backbone” team in each region. All have their own relationships with government agencies and departments that Anthony Albanese has promised will “need to seek written advice from the voice early in the development of proposed laws and policies”.

The mind boggles. Nine principles will dictate the implementation. All are complex and multilayered. The local voices and regional voices – not to mention the departments and agencies – will need to have more than a PowerPoint introduction to these principles. Perhaps another 300-page report?

The voice won’t just be some grand, meaningless gesture. It will be enormously costly and complex, and there’ll be chaos and confusion in its development. And to what end? Aboriginal people need less bureaucracy in their lives, not more. A 24-member advisory body is just the tip of a very large iceberg that Australia is hurtling towards like the Titanic.

Boris wrote on Apr 19^th, 2023 at 8:44am:


What about the mental retards like you? When will the government help you?

John Smith wrote on Apr 19^th, 2023 at 8:57am:


How many languages can you speak?

“I always think it’s a sign of victory when they move onto the Ad Hominem” — Christopher Hitchens

John Smith wrote on Apr 19^th, 2023 at 8:56am:


Well - just sign here and we'll make it up for you as we go....

How many contracts have you signed in your life that say exactly that, John-o?  Your mortgage? Car purchase?  Bank loan for business?



(of course Tovarish wants to go home and see the end of all this and freedom is just beyond the door- it's just that he never will see those, da?  Beware of the politically motivated bearing grift ... you need to watch and interpret every word they say.... next is coming show trial, Tovarish - where honest trial followed by honest bullet to back of head) ...........................

I've warned you that Albo and Co are sociopaths, delusional, and frankly megalomaniac..... not that they are any different from the general run of way out of touch politicians of all stamps  ....yet you never listen.... you just continue to delude yourselves that somehow all their lies and fantasies will turn out and it won't cause too much harm......

They've been causing harm for all of my adult life.... but good luck.  Albo wants to go down in the history books as the Next Abraham Lincoln, freeing the Blacks etc and creating a brand new Nirvana for them (but nobody else) ...