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Question: Will the referendum be voted in?
*** This poll has now closed ***


No    
  42 (75.0%)
Yes    
  14 (25.0%)




Total votes: 56
« Last Modified by: Redmond Neck on: Feb 25th, 2023 at 11:17am »

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The Aboriginal Voice referendum (Read 90852 times)
thegreatdivide
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1710 - May 25th, 2023 at 11:44am  
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 24th, 2023 at 11:39pm:
.... and yet what this poor fellow - my country - needs more than anything else is people who can rise from the floor of society and win election on the merit of their platform of a fair go for all...


The problem being that "a fair go for all" to conservatives means 'equality before the law', not fair outcomes for all - ie, a fair outcome, by definition (in a rich country), being above poverty employment for all, for the simple reason we all have to work to prosper.


Quote:
The longer the platforms of the government of two parties acting in lockstep go on, this becomes less likely, since they both agree on flooding the country with clueless immigrants who will instantly, once citizens, vote against any such sensible move as stopping immigration for 2-5 years until the country is back on its feet and actually has a plan for its future outside of building ticky-tacky shacks on the hillsides to crowd more and more people into until they collapse or the cities drown in their own excrement .......


Agreed; two parties signed up to a system which requires a level of unemployment to contol inflation - hello..we  have a systems problem....

Quote:
Then there is the constant drive to divide all Australians into smaller and smaller groups, and pit them against one another (starting with the women v men debacle - jeez - even that sheila who torpedoed Rolf Harris STILL insists they are victims of the patriarchy and are viewed by many men as merely good for 'pregnant, barefoot and in the kitchen' - what a load of utter cock as they say in the transgender community - and she says THEY are out of touch with the times), and promoting the silly grievances of minorities over the real interests of the majority and of the country as a whole (as opposed to the hole it is becoming) so as to create a country divided against itself along all lines and thus with a populace easy to conquer and control.....


Yes; Polanski's case was discussed on PK's ABC show  this morning; did he really rape an underage actress; or was it  pleasurable for both parties? Ditto for Woody Allen and Farrow's daughter.

Quote:
Danger lurks on every side when your country is run by lunatics....... and none have the balls to call it treason......
 

See the latest post in the MMT thread; a good economic system would not pit us against one-another, over false government 'debt' concerns.

Quote:
I told yez all that AbbotCo would be a watershed in politics in this country - and that AlboCorp would be another watershed in politics in this country... one such prediction is a done deal... the other is developing like a huge cancer as we speak...... and Albo is quite mad and thinks he is sane.... as are all his followers and those who hold his balls in a rabbit trap and force him to obey their wishes.... the pussy whippers.... all victims, too.... just ask them..... FFS ......


Less to do about 'pussy',  and more to do about money.....
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1711 - May 25th, 2023 at 11:59am  
Gnads wrote on May 25th, 2023 at 7:13am:
She sees herself as an individual with an individual’s right to tell government what she thinks. She sees Aboriginal people as a homogenous group needing a single national homogenous body to speak to government.


She's making that mistake BECAUSE blacks as a group are suffering the egregious stats aka 'the gap'.

Quote:
The idea Aboriginal people don’t currently have a voice is a lie. The Voice will take away our voices.

Nyunggai Warren Mundine AO



Mundine's error is to fail to recognise the system** is stacked against aboriginal voices who are locked out of employment relative to non-black voices.

**note:  most countries in the world have some arrangement for unemployment benefits ...just to dispel the conservative notion that "go get a job" is the answer to  unemployment.
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« Last Edit: May 25th, 2023 at 12:14pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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UnSubRocky
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1712 - May 25th, 2023 at 12:44pm  
Just reading the one-page "Uluru statement from the heart" and the two-page "design principles", it seems that the proposal for the constitutional amendment is nothing more than emotive garbage designed to establish more of apartheid than to be something that will help relieve problems in indigenous society.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1713 - May 25th, 2023 at 12:55pm  
Gotta love the perpetual 'motherhood' statements - 'the voice is designed to make things better for our people'... yeah, sure...

HOW??


... followed by silence or mumbles .....
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1714 - May 25th, 2023 at 12:58pm  
thegreatdivide wrote on May 25th, 2023 at 11:44am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 24th, 2023 at 11:39pm:
.... and yet what this poor fellow - my country - needs more than anything else is people who can rise from the floor of society and win election on the merit of their platform of a fair go for all...


The problem being that "a fair go for all" to conservatives means 'equality before the law', not fair outcomes for all - ie, a fair outcome, by definition (in a rich country), being above poverty employment for all, for the simple reason we all have to work to prosper.


Quote:
The longer the platforms of the government of two parties acting in lockstep go on, this becomes less likely, since they both agree on flooding the country with clueless immigrants who will instantly, once citizens, vote against any such sensible move as stopping immigration for 2-5 years until the country is back on its feet and actually has a plan for its future outside of building ticky-tacky shacks on the hillsides to crowd more and more people into until they collapse or the cities drown in their own excrement .......


Agreed; two parties signed up to a system which requires a level of unemployment to contol inflation - hello..we  have a systems problem....

Quote:
Then there is the constant drive to divide all Australians into smaller and smaller groups, and pit them against one another (starting with the women v men debacle - jeez - even that sheila who torpedoed Rolf Harris STILL insists they are victims of the patriarchy and are viewed by many men as merely good for 'pregnant, barefoot and in the kitchen' - what a load of utter cock as they say in the transgender community - and she says THEY are out of touch with the times), and promoting the silly grievances of minorities over the real interests of the majority and of the country as a whole (as opposed to the hole it is becoming) so as to create a country divided against itself along all lines and thus with a populace easy to conquer and control.....


Yes; Polanski's case was discussed on PK's ABC show  this morning; did he really rape an underage actress; or was it  pleasurable for both parties? Ditto for Woody Allen and Farrow's daughter.

Quote:
Danger lurks on every side when your country is run by lunatics....... and none have the balls to call it treason......
 

See the latest post in the MMT thread; a good economic system would not pit us against one-another, over false government 'debt' concerns.

Quote:
I told yez all that AbbotCo would be a watershed in politics in this country - and that AlboCorp would be another watershed in politics in this country... one such prediction is a done deal... the other is developing like a huge cancer as we speak...... and Albo is quite mad and thinks he is sane.... as are all his followers and those who hold his balls in a rabbit trap and force him to obey their wishes.... the pussy whippers.... all victims, too.... just ask them..... FFS ......


Less to do about 'pussy',  and more to do about money.....


Not even going to argue 'equal treatment before the law' and 'equal outcomes' - not 'fair outcomes' - EQUAL outcomes.

That's a sheila's argument.... there is no right to get a job and expect to be promoted exactly the same as someone else.... it doesn't work that way.... and to do so is treating people as robots .. de-humanising them .... and that is the strong suit of the so-called left, and is nothing but another way of imposing their power on all others.

Keep thinking... every time I see progress in you you take four steps backwards ...
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1715 - May 25th, 2023 at 12:59pm  
UnSubRocky wrote on May 25th, 2023 at 12:44pm:
Just reading the one-page "Uluru statement from the heart" and the two-page "design principles", it seems that the proposal for the constitutional amendment is nothing more than emotive garbage designed to establish more of apartheid than to be something that will help relieve problems in indigenous society.


True (or at least arguable) ; but as to "relieving problems in black society", can you address my point:

Mundine's error is to fail to recognise the system** is stacked against aboriginal voices who are locked out of employment relative to non-black voices.

**note:  most countries in the world have some arrangement for unemployment benefits ...just to dispel the conservative notion that "go get a job" is the answer to unemployment.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1716 - May 25th, 2023 at 1:10pm  
Anyone who wants to see the perfect storm of the utter failure of the push for 'equal outcomes' and 'quotas' that read "at least 50% (specify group)" needs only look at the public service, teaching and higher education these days..... and the ACTIVE DISCRIMINATION still goes on.... and every fool thinks it is just normal....

Look at any foreign owned business or immigrant owned business - do they have a quota of Australians born and bred - yet we enforce quotas and AA for them....

The root cause of the malaise is feminism .... it has destroyed equality in every way... and again - the fools think it is normal .....

The only consolation is knowing that any country controlled by women has fallen.......

Look at this in the context of the meek surrenders time after time to those who lost their war against modern Australia and now are being allowed to dictate the terms of the peace....

Australia - the Dopey Country Lead by Lunatics.

Start Learning To Say NO!
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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UnSubRocky
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1717 - May 25th, 2023 at 1:15pm  
thegreatdivide wrote on May 25th, 2023 at 12:59pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on May 25th, 2023 at 12:44pm:
Just reading the one-page "Uluru statement from the heart" and the two-page "design principles", it seems that the proposal for the constitutional amendment is nothing more than emotive garbage designed to establish more of apartheid than to be something that will help relieve problems in indigenous society.


True (or at least arguable) ; but as to "relieving problems in black society", can you address my point:

Mundine's error is to fail to recognise the system** is stacked against aboriginal voices who are locked out of employment relative to non-black voices.

**note:  most countries in the world have some arrangement for unemployment benefits ...just to dispel the conservative notion that "go get a job" is the answer to unemployment.


That is rubbish. Jobs are prioritised so that indigenous Australians get first preference in the job market. The number of "first nations people encouraged to apply" references in job descriptions is conspicuous.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1718 - May 25th, 2023 at 1:15pm  
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 25th, 2023 at 12:58pm:
Not even going to argue 'equal treatment before the law' and 'equal outcomes' - not 'fair outcomes' - EQUAL outcomes.


What's wrong with a fair outcome in a rich country (ie, above-poverty participation - at a minimum - for all), versus an "equal outcome" which IS ridiculous.

Quote:
That's a sheila's argument.... there is no right to get a job and expect to be promoted exactly the same as someone else....


The words after "expect' are your strawman argument; see my defintion of a fair outcome above.

And as to a "right" , see the UN UDHR, article 23.   

Quote:
it doesn't work that way.... and to do so is treating people as robots .. de-humanising them .... and that is the strong suit of the so-called left, and is nothing but another way of imposing their power on all others.


Your GIGO conclusion, we all have to work to prosper.

Quote:
Keep thinking... every time I see progress in you you take four steps backwards ...


The great divide continues...because conservatives are (erroneously) worried about the consequences for themselves, if poverty is eradicated.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1719 - May 25th, 2023 at 1:23pm  
UnSubRocky wrote on May 25th, 2023 at 1:15pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on May 25th, 2023 at 12:59pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on May 25th, 2023 at 12:44pm:
Just reading the one-page "Uluru statement from the heart" and the two-page "design principles", it seems that the proposal for the constitutional amendment is nothing more than emotive garbage designed to establish more of apartheid than to be something that will help relieve problems in indigenous society.


True (or at least arguable) ; but as to "relieving problems in black society", can you address my point:

Mundine's error is to fail to recognise the system** is stacked against aboriginal voices who are locked out of employment relative to non-black voices.

**note:  most countries in the world have some arrangement for unemployment benefits ...just to dispel the conservative notion that "go get a job" is the answer to unemployment.


That is rubbish. Jobs are prioritised so that indigenous Australians get first preference in the job market.


Preference is one thing: outcomes is another.

(quick google)

"The (black) unemployment rate was 16% in major cities, and 23% in regional areas. A high number of Aboriginal people was not participating in the labour force (44.1%), double the figure for non-Aboriginal people (23.6%).23 Jan 2022"

Quote:
The number of "first nations people encouraged to apply" references in job descriptions is conspicuous.


Addressed above.
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UnSubRocky
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1720 - May 25th, 2023 at 1:27pm  
The unemployment rate for Australia is 3.6%. If 23% of indigenous people are unemployed, they need to up the ante and find work. If they are doing nothing for 6 months (including not doing job training), they should lose their benefits. If I have to abide by those rules, so should they.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1721 - May 25th, 2023 at 1:35pm  
UnSubRocky wrote on May 25th, 2023 at 1:27pm:
The unemployment rate for Australia is 3.6%. If 23% of indigenous people are unemployed, they need to up the ante and find work. If they are doing nothing for 6 months (including not doing job training), they should lose their benefits. If I have to abide by those rules, so should they.


All this, after I explained to you every first world country on the planet has arrangements for the dole - for a reason.
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1722 - May 25th, 2023 at 1:36pm  
thegreatdivide wrote on May 25th, 2023 at 1:35pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on May 25th, 2023 at 1:27pm:
The unemployment rate for Australia is 3.6%. If 23% of indigenous people are unemployed, they need to up the ante and find work. If they are doing nothing for 6 months (including not doing job training), they should lose their benefits. If I have to abide by those rules, so should they.


All this, after I explained to you every first world country on the planet has arrangements for the dole - for a reason.


Uh, yeah. It is documented here on OzPol that I am a recipient of JobSeeker. But, at the very least, I work part-time hours to relieve the burden on the welfare system (and my own poverty).
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1723 - May 25th, 2023 at 1:44pm  
"A high number of Aboriginal people was not participating in the labour force (44.1%)"



Four out of ten prefer to lolly-gag in the warm sun..... catching fish on the evening tide.... sandy beaches, drinking rum every night.... home for a piece of pussy or two .. wait for your fortnightly cargo cult dollars to arrive in the account for your ten kids who don't eat much and don't need to go to school etc so no costs ..... then wait for your unearned rent money to pour in after the Unequal Treaties are signed off on by stupid White people with no brains...

Only a white man or a yellow man would set out to destroy such an idyllic lifestyle by forcing work on them ..... how would the young ones find the energy to pillage and plunder all night and raise mayhem with stolen cars and such?

Did you ever notice how you ambush yourself time after time when the facts are on the table, dividie?

Now launch into calling me some neo-con oppressor again with a belief in some antiquated system that you have no idea how to change or fix but which we all have to live by to get by .... forget the facts.. a decent serve of rhetoric will always win the day...
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1724 - May 25th, 2023 at 1:48pm  
UnSubRocky wrote on May 25th, 2023 at 1:36pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on May 25th, 2023 at 1:35pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on May 25th, 2023 at 1:27pm:
The unemployment rate for Australia is 3.6%. If 23% of indigenous people are unemployed, they need to up the ante and find work. If they are doing nothing for 6 months (including not doing job training), they should lose their benefits. If I have to abide by those rules, so should they.


All this, after I explained to you every first world country on the planet has arrangements for the dole - for a reason.


Uh, yeah. It is documented here on OzPol that I am a recipient of JobSeeker. But, at the very least, I work part-time hours to relieve the burden on the welfare system (and my own poverty).


Again: talking about yourself. Blacks as a group experience much higher unemployment AND non-particpation:  "The number...of Aboriginal people (which) was not participating in the labour force (44.1%) cf non-blacks (23%)..."
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