Australian Politics Forum - The Aboriginal Voice referendum

JC Denton Gold Member Offline Posts: 5470 Gender:	Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum Reply #1740 - May 26^th, 2023 at 3:47pm Quote: Indigenous people of the year 2023 do not participate in the workforce as much as non-indigenous Australians because indigenous Australians get paid just as much on welfare as they would working a 38-hour week. lol you got proof of that? sounds made up af to me
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UnSubRocky

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1741 - May 26^th, 2023 at 4:10pm

JC Denton wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 3:47pm:

Quote:

Indigenous people of the year 2023 do not participate in the workforce as much as non-indigenous Australians because indigenous Australians get paid just as much on welfare as they would working a 38-hour week.

lol you got proof of that? sounds made up af to me

When you hear it from the horse's mouth about getting benefits that non-indigenous people do not get, you tend to hold that view as true.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1742 - May 26^th, 2023 at 4:17pm

JC Denton wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 3:47pm:

Quote:

Indigenous people of the year 2023 do not participate in the workforce as much as non-indigenous Australians because indigenous Australians get paid just as much on welfare as they would working a 38-hour week.

lol you got proof of that? sounds made up af to me

It is made up.

It's complete and utter bullshit.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74257 Gender:	Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum Reply #1743 - May 26^th, 2023 at 4:18pm UnSubRocky wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 4:10pm: When you hear it from the horse's mouth about getting benefits that non-indigenous people do not get, you tend to hold that view as true. and what if that horse is a jackass?
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UnSubRocky

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1744 - May 26^th, 2023 at 4:21pm

John Smith wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 4:18pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 4:10pm:

When you hear it from the horse's mouth about getting benefits that non-indigenous people do not get, you tend to hold that view as true.

and what if that horse is a jackass?

I would not call this 17-year-old girl a "jackass". Especially when she was admitting to my father that the reason why she was able to avoid poverty was because her aboriginality gave her privileges that other Australians do not get. And she spoke candidly to my father (a known racist) that her life was on the mend because people helped her avoid impoverishment.

But, that is only one example. I would assume that you meant that I provide citations to government services that admit this type of special treatment. That won't be on the record.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1745 - May 26^th, 2023 at 4:57pm

UnSubRocky wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 4:21pm:

John Smith wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 4:18pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 4:10pm:

When you hear it from the horse's mouth about getting benefits that non-indigenous people do not get, you tend to hold that view as true.

and what if that horse is a jackass?

I would not call this 17-year-old girl a "jackass".

You still trying to understand macoeconomic realities re employment and unemployment from the experiences of individuals. Your ongoing mistake....aka 'the fallacy of composition'.

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Gnads

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1746 - May 26^th, 2023 at 5:41pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 25^th, 2023 at 1:23pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on May 25^th, 2023 at 1:15pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 25^th, 2023 at 12:59pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on May 25^th, 2023 at 12:44pm:

Just reading the one-page "Uluru statement from the heart" and the two-page "design principles", it seems that the proposal for the constitutional amendment is nothing more than emotive garbage designed to establish more of apartheid than to be something that will help relieve problems in indigenous society.

True (or at least arguable) ; but as to "relieving problems in black society", can you address my point:

Mundine's error is to fail to recognise the system** is stacked against aboriginal voices who are locked out of employment relative to non-black voices.

**note: most countries in the world have some arrangement for unemployment benefits ...just to dispel the conservative notion that "go get a job" is the answer to unemployment.

That is rubbish. Jobs are prioritised so that indigenous Australians get first preference in the job market.

Preference is one thing: outcomes is another.

(quick google)

"The (black) unemployment rate was 16% in major cities, and 23% in regional areas. A high number of Aboriginal people was not participating in the labour force (44.1%), double the figure for non-Aboriginal people (23.6%).23 Jan 2022"

Quote:

The number of "first nations people encouraged to apply" references in job descriptions is conspicuous.

Addressed above.

Meaning what exactly? That they don't bother to apply?

What is it you exactly want? I have a fair idea & that is to run after them like 2 years olds & give them the job, take them to work everyday, pick them up & take them home, give them lunch money or pack them a lunch, dress them in correct PPE? etc etc etc.

Just patronising bullshyte all the way. Roll Eyes

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1747 - May 26^th, 2023 at 5:46pm

UnSubRocky wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 12:29pm:

Gnads wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 7:24am:

UnSubRocky wrote on May 25^th, 2023 at 1:27pm:

The unemployment rate for Australia is 3.6%. If 23% of indigenous people are unemployed, they need to up the ante and find work. If they are doing nothing for 6 months (including not doing job training), they should lose their benefits. If I have to abide by those rules, so should they.

If you believe that figure to be accurate then you're very gullible.

With the experiences of my working life, there is a high underemployment rate. Not gullible at all.

So the 3.6% unemployment rate is in reality bullshit ... yes?

Working 1.5 hrs a week is not employed is it?

Rubbery figures is what that is.

The true rate would be double plus on 3.6%.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1748 - May 26^th, 2023 at 5:49pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 2:33pm:

Australian sporting organisations band together to support a Voice to Parliament Cool

They should have nothing to do with it/stay out of it ..... it's not what they exist for, to be involved in politics of the nation trying to be woke.

Sounds like they're imposing their ideals on every individual registered to play that sport.

They have no right to do that...... the same applies to their sticking their noses into the Gay Pride issue.

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« Last Edit: May 26^th, 2023 at 5:54pm by Gnads »

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Brian Ross

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1749 - May 26^th, 2023 at 6:04pm

Gnads wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 5:49pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 2:33pm:

Australian sporting organisations band together to support a Voice to Parliament Cool

They should have nothing to do with it/stay out of it ..... it's not what they exist for, to be involved in politics of the nation trying to be woke.

Sounds like they're imposing their ideals on every individual registered to play that sport.

They have no right to do that...... the same applies to their sticking their noses into the Gay Pride issue.

Their members think otherwise. Who should they obey? Their members or you, Gnads? I think you lose out, thankfully. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Gnads

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1750 - May 26^th, 2023 at 6:17pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 6:04pm:

Gnads wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 5:49pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 2:33pm:

Australian sporting organisations band together to support a Voice to Parliament Cool

They should have nothing to do with it/stay out of it ..... it's not what they exist for, to be involved in politics of the nation trying to be woke.

Sounds like they're imposing their ideals on every individual registered to play that sport.

They have no right to do that...... the same applies to their sticking their noses into the Gay Pride issue.

Their members think otherwise. Who should they obey? Their members or you, Gnads? I think you lose out, thankfully. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

It has absolutely not an ounce of credibility for you to say anything about "obeying me". A total wank comment.

Just who are you calling members? Club executives? or every individual player? The players Associations aka Unions?

Besides that dipstick ... these sports survive on their fan base/ supporters ...... are they all on board with this political involvement?

I bet they aren't.

Will they threaten players who disagree like they did to the Manly players who refused to wear Gay Pride jerseys during a round that was specifically in honour of women in the sport.

Were they then suggesting all women in sport are Lesbians?

This isn't a tick for the "Voice" .... it's an indication of how stupid the executive bodies of these clubs are .... along with the corporate businesses going woke today.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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UnSubRocky

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1751 - May 27^th, 2023 at 9:26am

Gnads wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 5:46pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 12:29pm:

Gnads wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 7:24am:

UnSubRocky wrote on May 25^th, 2023 at 1:27pm:

The unemployment rate for Australia is 3.6%. If 23% of indigenous people are unemployed, they need to up the ante and find work. If they are doing nothing for 6 months (including not doing job training), they should lose their benefits. If I have to abide by those rules, so should they.

If you believe that figure to be accurate then you're very gullible.

With the experiences of my working life, there is a high underemployment rate. Not gullible at all.

So the 3.6% unemployment rate is in reality bullshit ... yes?

Working 1.5 hrs a week is not employed is it?

Rubbery figures is what that is.

The true rate would be double plus on 3.6%.

I work a minimum of 10 hours a week. The most I have done in the last 8 years is about 30 hours. The range of hours I mostly do is about 15 to 25 hours a week. There are a lot of people in the underemployment category that have similar situations to me.

Unemployment rates are for those people without a job who are registered as looking for work. So, it we discount figures of those like me who work half or even one-third the number of full time hours in part-time or casual jobs, 3.6% unemployment might seem about right. But, we should be starting to look at underemployment figures -- which is far higher than unemployment figures.

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UnSubRocky

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1752 - May 27^th, 2023 at 9:37am

thegreatdivide wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 4:57pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 4:21pm:

John Smith wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 4:18pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 4:10pm:

When you hear it from the horse's mouth about getting benefits that non-indigenous people do not get, you tend to hold that view as true.

and what if that horse is a jackass?

I would not call this 17-year-old girl a "jackass".

You still trying to understand macoeconomic realities re employment and unemployment from the experiences of individuals. Your ongoing mistake....aka 'the fallacy of composition'.

I felt like I just read an autoresponder message. My point was that a 17-year-old girl/woman, who, being of indigenous heritage, managed to avoid an impoverished upbringing because she could rely on her racial background as an excuse to claim extra benefits. When you see her today, she has grown up to be a decent young lady, and an example of money well spent. Educated, polite, social. I could imagine her on drugs and probably pregnant or a mother by now, had she not had assistance.

So, when you had earlier stated that we should be funding indigenous communities to not fall into impoverishment -- I know these are not your words -- I figure that there is some credibility there. But, I do not see how urban indigenous Australians, having the services and privileges afforded to every other Australian, need to have extra funding that leaves them to not contribute to the construction of Australia.

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UnSubRocky

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1753 - May 27^th, 2023 at 9:39am

Brian Ross wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 6:04pm:

Gnads wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 5:49pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 26^th, 2023 at 2:33pm:

Australian sporting organisations band together to support a Voice to Parliament Cool

They should have nothing to do with it/stay out of it ..... it's not what they exist for, to be involved in politics of the nation trying to be woke.

Sounds like they're imposing their ideals on every individual registered to play that sport.

They have no right to do that...... the same applies to their sticking their noses into the Gay Pride issue.

Their members think otherwise. Who should they obey? Their members or you, Gnads? I think you lose out, thankfully. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

I have yet to watch the linked video you posted. But, sport has been an influential way that the indigenous communities have shown themselves as integrated members of Australian society, for over half a century. It does not surprise me that sporting organisations have taken that route in supporting the Voice to Parliament.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #1754 - May 27^th, 2023 at 1:42pm

UnSubRocky wrote on May 27^th, 2023 at 9:37am:

I felt like I just read an autoresponder message.

That's because the blind 'individual sovereignty'/ 'freedom values' brain can't cope with macroeconomic realities; that's why you can't understand the fallacy of composition.

Quote:

My point was that a 17-year-old girl/woman,.....

I know what your point was - and it's irrelevant to the reality of employment/unemployment stats.

Quote:

So, when you had earlier stated that we should be funding indigenous communities to not fall into impoverishment -- I know these are not your words -- I figure that there is some credibility there.

Good; indeed that's what most people who support the Yes case think - without understanding HOW to reverse the current egregious impoverishment measured by the gap stats.

Quote:

But, I do not see how urban indigenous Australians, having the services and privileges afforded to every other Australian, need to have extra funding that leaves them to not contribute to the construction of Australia.

I agree that should not be the case, if it were true.

But it's not; urban blacks also suffer higher rates of unemployment and non-participation in paid work.

And if they are getting paid more NOT to work (as you asserted), that is the fault of the system, not the blacks.

[It would be interesting to know the relative contribution of urban versus regional/remote blacks, to the awful gap stats.]

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