UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2023 at 3:20pm:


Relevant to what? Obviously not all impoverished blacks can replicate her family circumstances.

Some families are dysfunctional, some are not.  Apparently some can make a go of living on extra dole money (your claim), some cannot. The ones which cannot will need case management at the micro (individual) level.

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See my above sentence; despite your diffuculties you have had the (internal) resources to prosper, with support from the state; whereas many blacks are mired in particular sociological  problems rooted in historical circumstances.

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Refuted above. Unless we do something differently, the gap won't close. 

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Sociologists disagree with you.

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Ok you are not a war monger, you just think war is an acceptable means of dispute settlement. 

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..like Roberts; both of them likely brutalized by war - unless Roberts is indeed merely a murderous psychopath who was in his element in war.

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And yet we are all complicit so long as the veto remains in the UNSC  - the 'Security' council which was supposed to "remove the scourge of war afflicting mankind" (preamble to the UN Charter) 

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But not to blacks who have known nothing other than social dysfunction.

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Do I have to keep saying it - stop talking about yourself, the topic is black dysfunction and the resulting gap.
(Nevertheless, good to hear you are going to TAFE).

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Thanks; now about closing that gap...

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Addressed above. Sociologists know there are many causes of poverty, some beyond the control of some individuals in particular circumstances.

And there aren'y enough jobs to employ everyone in a NAIRU system, by definition.

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Your mistake again, sociologists would laugh you out of court.

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No, I loathe NAIRU entrenched poverty. We will need to change the system, to close the gap.

quick google

Is it possible to break out of poverty?

For those born into poverty, breaking free from the cycle is nearly impossible. Poverty still exists for a number of reasons. Economics, cost of living, education, wages, health insurance, housing, transportation, and mental health all have an impact.11 Oct 2022

In the case of blacks, add on sociological/cultural/dysfunctional/generational reasons, to complete the picture.

issuevoter wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2023 at 1:39pm:


Yes; so get back to this board when the referendum fails,  (or succeeds)...and we can talk about resourcing the effort required to case-manage dysfunctional families.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2023 at 1:35pm:


You can make a go of living on $45,000 a year. I have seen families do it. I have to live on less than $30,000 with work and welfare money. But, the only way my financial situation will improve is if I get a better job with more hours, or I get another job.

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Unless the historical circumstances involved having broken bones or other medical misadventure, I can say that the historical problems can be limited to about 2 weeks prior. Otherwise, it is irrelevant. The whole "grandma and granddad were caught up in the settler wars" does not cut it. Should I go on about myself suffering PTSD because my great uncle fought in Papua New Guinea?

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No. Unless indigenous people do something differently, they won't catch up with non-indigenous Australians. What is the old saying? "You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink". 30 years is a long time to be pampered as a racial group. If someone indigenous gets that kind of leniency for several decades in terms of more money, more job offers, free training, low-interest rates, less likely to be arrested for minor offences and less likely to be convicted, I see no reason why the blame cannot be upon indigenous themselves for their own circumstances.

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I would say that I know more about psychology and sociology than sociologists themselves. Having an attitude problem in regard to being upwardly mobile in socioeconomic lifestyles is what prevents people from succeeding. Any sociologist that disagrees with that assertion should really consider a career change.

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I think war is the last resort to resolving a dispute. You said something along the lines of having diplomacy settle disputes. That is correct. But, sometimes wars are needed.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2023 at 1:35pm:


The movie of Breaker Morant depicted Morant being told to have Boer prisoners of war executed as a means not to drain the resources of the British and Commonwealth allies. I have only read the first chapter of George Whitton's book "Scapegoats of the Empire". But, the general idea is that Morant and his fellow officers have been found guilty of murdering prisoners.

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They can collect trolleys, wash dishes, mow lawns, etc. Jobs that are available to people with little to no skills. And if social dysfunction is the problem, it is time to get socially functional.

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You can keep saying it for as long as you want. But, my life is very relevant to this topic. Just because I am not black, it does not mean my socioeconomic circumstances are irrelevant to the topic.

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No matter what the circumstances of the economy, you cannot stay unemployed for so long that you don't know the meaning of the word "work". Long-term unemployed people in today's economy are completely at fault for their circumstances. Just think about the last 3 years. We had a period where hardly anyone was migrating to Australia. And there were those that were moving out of Australia. We had tens of thousands fewer people in Australia in the year 2022 than we did in the year 2021. Many industries were crying out for workers, as foreigners had to stay in their home countries. And now, with hundreds of thousands of people coming back to Australia, you might be right to argue that jobs will be in short supply. But, not when we needed people to work. No excuses.

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I don't care that I am talking about my circumstances again. You made it about me. And for that, I might as well tell you that I have had a harder life than most people in Australia, including the dysfunctional indigenous people. I have had death threats against me. I have nearly been killed. I have been bashed a bunch of times. I have been shot. I have been poisoned, drugged, and sedated. I have been robbed, defamed, sexually harassed, associated with religious organisations that I have no interest in, etc., etc. It is a wonder that I am still here.

And despite all of these things, the PTSD, physical and mental issues, and financial circumstances have not driven me to being socially dysfunctional. So cut. the. crap in regards to these being an excuse to indigenous people not succeeding in life. Spoiling a racial demographic only turns them into layabouts.

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We need to shut down racially exclusive programs so that the indigenous people develop a sense of need to earn their living. Keep an eye on other forum topics about vigilantes. They have been making a big impact on the region, since people have had a gutful of the softly-softly approach the government has on indigenous affairs. You might start seeing race riots take place that make the Cronulla Riots seem like a beachside noise complaint.

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Work 40 hours a week at $20/hr. You will break free of poverty. If that is not enough, find another job that you can do for another 20 hours of your week. And if the pay rate of $20/hr is too low, you can find a better job with better pay rates, when you earn the right through training and education.

UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2023 at 2:41pm:


That is because they were.  Military justice must be seen to have been done and the evidence all substantiated the guilt of Morant, despite what romantics believe.  He was as guilty as charged and proved.  His case was the prime reason why the Australian military moved to develop it's own legal system.  He was a member of the British Army and as such subject to the British Military legal system.  We didn't exist as a nation yet and didn't have a military legal system under which he could be tried.

Indigenous Voice to Parliament among topics at annual Saltwater Freshwater festival