Australian Politics Forum - The Aboriginal Voice referendum

Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #195 - Nov 24^th, 2022 at 9:03am

Frank wrote on Nov 24^th, 2022 at 8:48am:

Already the idea that the voice will merely be an advisory body on legislation has been shown up as a lie. The Prime Minister has conceded only a “brave” government would go against its recommendations, meaning it will have a virtual veto over what the government and parliament does. But it’s Burney who has belled the cat on its real work with her admission last weekend that the voice would play a leading role in any negotiations for a treaty or series of treaties between the commonwealth and Australia’s 500-plus Indigenous tribes or clans. This is already happening in Victoria, which has created a First Peoples’ Assembly to be a voice to government and to “design a framework for future treaty negotiations”. The assembly was set up in 2019, although fewer than 8 per cent of Victoria’s 30,000 eligible Indigenous voters cast a vote.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/lets-hear-it-for-equality-instead-of-avoice/news-story/b498c3592e01f0d7491460fed754f31d

Can you link us to that statement? The Oz is paywalled.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 84542 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum Reply #196 - Nov 24^th, 2022 at 9:25am Let's try this one:-
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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #197 - Nov 24^th, 2022 at 5:16pm

Frank wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2022 at 2:52pm:

03 | The First Game Changer: A Job Guarantee For The Bottom Million

In his third lecture, Noel Pearson argues that Indigenous Australians have become trapped in the 'bottom million' of the nation when it comes to economic development.

A remarkable and correct observation.

Quote:

He describes the ongoing effect of welfare dependency, or 'passive welfare', which he says is not just a problem afflicting Indigenous communities, it's a human problem.

An extremely important observation, in this era when mainstream economists are content to let the unemployed rot on the 'unemployment scrap heap', while patting themselves on the back for the 'generosity' of the dole.

Quote:

https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/boyerlectures/the-first-game-chang...

As usual with Noel Pearson, his Boyer Lectures are very much worth listening to.

Absolutely agree. He takes analysis of the problem to a deeper level.

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He advocates for both the Voice and job guarantee and I disagree with him on both points. Still, he makes a lot of sense as a diagnostician even if his solutions are wrong.

Well, I might agree his solution re the voice is wrong, but what about the JG?

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On the voice - it would be better called the Cacophony. It is not just different tribes have different interests but different clans within tribes do. See the latest yeah-but-no-but around the proposed Alice Springs Aboriginal Art Centre on sacred women's business site in the very centre of town. Undecided

Yes, I agree; and the voice is a diversion - aided and abetted by 'culture vultures' among both white and black. Pearson can be forgiven because he is naturally defending the black community.

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Job guarantee: what do you do with people who do not want to work?

We all want to work, because we all have to work, to maintain any self-esteem AND capacity for an independent, above poverty existence.

Stop using your lame assertion accusing large numbers of people - eg, the 1 million identified by Pearson - of not wanting to work.

Quote:

The lumpen, the lazy, drunk, dishonest, work shy? Keep them in the 'job'even if they do not turn up or do more damage than good when they do turn up?

The vicious neoliberal TINA/NAIRU policy of permanent, entrenched unemployment to control wages and inflation, causes inestimable long term psychological damage and demoralization. You are merely describing the manifestation of that systemic viciousness.

Quote:

There are about 490 thousand job vacancies and 550 thousand unemployed people. That looks to me as close to a job for anyone who wants one as you can get.

yes...well, the Libs defunded TAFE, in favour of stealing qualified workers from overseas. Now that the overseas pool has dried up (due to the pandemic), we see the figures you outlined.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 84542 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum Reply #198 - Nov 24^th, 2022 at 7:15pm Right, lads! We've got that bit straight - NOW!!! What are the solid solutions? Let's start that merry-go-round again...
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Frank

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #199 - Nov 24^th, 2022 at 7:43pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 24^th, 2022 at 5:16pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2022 at 2:52pm:

The lumpen, the lazy, drunk, dishonest, work shy? Keep them in the 'job'even if they do not turn up or do more damage than good when they do turn up?

The vicious neoliberal TINA/NAIRU policy of permanent, entrenched unemployment to control wages and inflation, causes inestimable long term psychological damage and demoralization. You are merely describing the manifestation of that systemic viciousness.

You are avoiding the question and parroting sideways, as usual. You address nothing, above or otherwise, but parrot crap regardless.

You exemplify the zealous bureaucrats who recite the central planning mantra and the facts on the ground be damned. The party and thd apparatchiks - that's you - always know best, even when they know FA - you with bells on.

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John Smith

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #200 - Nov 24^th, 2022 at 8:07pm

Frank wrote on Nov 24^th, 2022 at 7:24am:

John Smith wrote on Nov 24^th, 2022 at 7:18am:

Frank wrote on Nov 24^th, 2022 at 6:59am:

John Smith wrote on Nov 24^th, 2022 at 6:13am:

Bad news for racists like crappler . .... saw a poll this morning on tele that showed 80% approval for some form off aboriginal voice in parliament.

Must suck to see all the pent up hatred go to waste

We ALREADY have Aboriginal voice in parliament. They are called Members of Parliament.

Liberal Senator Kerrynne Liddle claims the long-accepted test to establish whether a person is an Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander Australian is being “tinkered with” in favour of self-identification.

Senator Liddle, an Arrernte woman from Alice Springs, told parliament on Wednesday she was concerned that an “astonishing” increase in the number of Australians who consider themselves Indigenous would have consequences for government policies and programs and the people who needed them most.

The South Australian senator made her remarks as a regional NSW land council pushes for Labor’s proposed National Anti-Corruption Commission to investigate what it says is the scandal of non-Indigenous people and organisations claiming contracts, jobs and benefits intended for Aboriginal Australians.

You should worry more about the parliament in that poo hole you come from and leave Australia's parliament for Aussies.

Senator Mehreen Faruqi

https://aijac.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/E1KhWimVkAAM3EQ.jpe

And still she's more of an Aussie than you are Cheesy

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #201 - Nov 24^th, 2022 at 8:11pm

[quote author=The_Grappler link=1664785668/191#191 date=1669239426][quote author=John_Smith link=1664785668/187#187 date=1669234436]Bad news for racists like crappler . .... saw a poll this morning on tele that showed 80% approval for some form off aboriginal voice in parliament.

Must suck to see all the pent up hatred go to waste [/quote]

That's not the word on the streets... NOBODY supports it..... there's nothing racist about opposing an utterly stupid idea.

You'll work it out one day, Smith... just remember - I TOLD YOU SO!
[/quote]

The echo chamber you frequent isn't 'the street '

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 84542 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum Reply #202 - Nov 24^th, 2022 at 11:48pm The Aboriginal Voice referendum is a shot duck.......
Back to top	“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams IP Logged

mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 35453 Gender:	Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum Reply #203 - Nov 25^th, 2022 at 5:32am John Smith wrote on Nov 24^th, 2022 at 6:13am: Bad news for racists like crappler . .... saw a poll this morning on tele that showed 80% approval for some form off aboriginal voice in parliament. Must suck to see all the pent up hatred go to waste LOL!
Back to top	If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning. IP Logged

Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #204 - Nov 25^th, 2022 at 7:07am

mothra wrote on Nov 25^th, 2022 at 5:32am:

John Smith wrote on Nov 24^th, 2022 at 6:13am:

Bad news for racists like crappler . .... saw a poll this morning on tele that showed 80% approval for some form off aboriginal voice in parliament.

Must suck to see all the pent up hatred go to waste

LOL!

Polls - lies, damned lies, statistics, and rigged polls...

'some form of voice' - well - it's all settled then - they already have more than enough voice...

So the question asked wasn't about The Voice PROPOSAL - it was 'do you think Abos should have some kind of voice in Parliament' ... sure - everyone does - - now we should all be lining up for OUR Voice Direct!! Youfools DO see the difference, don't you?

Another shot duck - I was considering another word, but duck will have to do for now... don;t want to offend anyone ... Grin

You people are good for a laugh............... every day of the week.

The vote is going to be NO....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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mothra

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #205 - Nov 25^th, 2022 at 7:12am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Nov 25^th, 2022 at 7:07am:

mothra wrote on Nov 25^th, 2022 at 5:32am:

John Smith wrote on Nov 24^th, 2022 at 6:13am:

Bad news for racists like crappler . .... saw a poll this morning on tele that showed 80% approval for some form off aboriginal voice in parliament.

Must suck to see all the pent up hatred go to waste

LOL!

Polls - lies, damned lies, statistics, and rigged polls...

'some form of voice' - well - it's all settled then - they already have more than enough voice...

So the question asked wasn't about The Voice PROPOSAL - it was 'do you think Abos should have some kind of voice in Parliament' ... sure - everyone does - - now we should all be lining up for OUR Voice Direct!! Youfools DO see the difference, don't you?

Another shot duck - I was considering another word, but duck will have to do for now... don;t want to offend anyone ... Grin

You people are good for a laugh............... every day of the week.

The vote is going to be NO....

Did you say that about gay marriage too?

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #206 - Nov 25^th, 2022 at 7:17am

mothra wrote on Nov 25^th, 2022 at 7:12am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Nov 25^th, 2022 at 7:07am:

mothra wrote on Nov 25^th, 2022 at 5:32am:

John Smith wrote on Nov 24^th, 2022 at 6:13am:

Bad news for racists like crappler . .... saw a poll this morning on tele that showed 80% approval for some form off aboriginal voice in parliament.

Must suck to see all the pent up hatred go to waste

LOL!

Polls - lies, damned lies, statistics, and rigged polls...

'some form of voice' - well - it's all settled then - they already have more than enough voice...

So the question asked wasn't about The Voice PROPOSAL - it was 'do you think Abos should have some kind of voice in Parliament' ... sure - everyone does - - now we should all be lining up for OUR Voice Direct!! Youfools DO see the difference, don't you?

Another shot duck - I was considering another word, but duck will have to do for now... don;t want to offend anyone ... Grin

You people are good for a laugh............... every day of the week.

The vote is going to be NO....

Did you say that about gay marriage too?

No - I laid out a learned and considered view of what it was all about, said that essentially 'gay marriage' as a separate institution in society caused no real harm... but then said I would vote NO to the kind of hysterical ravings that were taking the place of open discussion of the issue .... same as the madness of the early suffragettes succeeded in delaying the introduction of Universal Suffrage in some countries due to their instability and violence.

I wouldn't expect you to understand the difference. Grin

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #207 - Nov 25^th, 2022 at 7:24am

Now just for you, dear old mothra .... your very own use of the term 'gay marriage' shows that even you, an alleged proponent of aformalised union between same sex people, do not consider it Marriage, as indeed it is not - it is Gay Marriage by your own words, and is clearly a 'separate but equal' sop thrown to a group to keep them happy and so a culture/society/government could look kind, inclusive and progressive.

As I said - even you acknowledge that in your own choice of words....

MARRIAGE

Gay Marriage

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #208 - Nov 25^th, 2022 at 1:12pm

Frank wrote on Nov 24^th, 2022 at 7:43pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 24^th, 2022 at 5:16pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2022 at 2:52pm:

The lumpen, the lazy, drunk, dishonest, work shy? Keep them in the 'job'even if they do not turn up or do more damage than good when they do turn up?

The vicious neoliberal TINA/NAIRU policy of permanent, entrenched unemployment to control wages and inflation, causes inestimable long term psychological damage and demoralization. You are merely describing the manifestation of that systemic viciousness.

You are avoiding the question and parroting sideways, as usual. You address nothing, above or otherwise, but parrot crap regardless.

No; you are avoiding WHY "The lumpen, the lazy, drunk, dishonest, work shy" exist at all.

Answer, society's copout 'safety net' of demoralizing 'sit-down money' (the dole), the consequence of the vicious neoliberal TINA/NAIRU economy designed to maximize the claims of the most competitive on the nation's output.

Quote:

You exemplify the zealous bureaucrats who recite the central planning mantra and the facts on the ground be damned.

Central planning? LOL, the vicious 'invisible hand' market-based economy - with CB control of inflation by entrenched unemployment - is the opposite of central planning.

Quote:

The party and thd apparatchiks - that's you - always know best, even when they know FA - you with bells on.

as opposed to the 'invisible hand'....which definitely knows FA...

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Frank

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #209 - Nov 25^th, 2022 at 3:13pm

Ythegreatdivide wrote on Nov 25^th, 2022 at 1:12pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 24^th, 2022 at 7:43pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 24^th, 2022 at 5:16pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2022 at 2:52pm:

The lumpen, the lazy, drunk, dishonest, work shy? Keep them in the 'job'even if they do not turn up or do more damage than good when they do turn up?

The vicious neoliberal TINA/NAIRU policy of permanent, entrenched unemployment to control wages and inflation, causes inestimable long term psychological damage and demoralization. You are merely describing the manifestation of that systemic viciousness.

You are avoiding the question and parroting sideways, as usual. You address nothing, above or otherwise, but parrot crap regardless.

No; you are avoiding WHY "The lumpen, the lazy, drunk, dishonest, work shy" exist at all.

Answer, society's copout 'safety net' of demoralizing 'sit-down money' (the dole), the consequence of the vicious neoliberal TINA/NAIRU economy designed to maximize the claims of the most competitive on the nation's output.

They existed before capitalism, they exist in socialism - they have ALWAYS been with us.
You try, idotically, to make them a recent, neoliberal invention. That's how ignorant and stupid you are, parrot.

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Poll
Question: Will the referendum be voted in?
* This poll has now closed *
No 42 (75.0%) Yes 14 (25.0%) Total votes: 56 « Last Modified by: Redmond Neck on: Feb 25^th, 2023 at 11:17am »