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Poll closed Poll
Question: Will the referendum be voted in?
*** This poll has now closed ***


No    
  42 (75.0%)
Yes    
  14 (25.0%)




Total votes: 56
« Last Modified by: Redmond Neck on: Feb 25th, 2023 at 11:17am »

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The Aboriginal Voice referendum (Read 89637 times)
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4425 - May 22nd, 2024 at 11:58am
 
Gnads wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 11:04am:
Incorrect ..... any so called "crying" is about the fact that despite the result of the referendum ... the Labor states are pushing ahead with state based a "Voice" and Treaties ....

As there are 7 out of 8 States& Territories under Labor administration that would present as an introduction of a Voice by stealth.

Yet Sth Australia who were the 1st state to run an election for an Aboriginal Voice saw less than 10% of eligible Aboriginals turn out.

30,000 people were eligible to vote, but only 2,583 formal ballots were counted.

Seems that even Sth Australian Aboriginals, many of whom also had a vote in the national referendum & voted "no" as did the state on a whole at 60% NO .... don't want a State Voice to Parliament either.

Any hatred that has been engendered as a result of the Voice propaganda has been directed towards the Aboriginal activists and supporters of this divisive campaign.

A similar hatred is being engendered towards all these pro-Palestinian activists protesting and breeding unfettered anti-Semitism and Jew hating on our streets & University campuses.

People like you support politics of division and hatred.
Hypocrites writ large.


Got  him (and them) in one.  None so blind as those who choose to remove their own eyes.

Nobody hates on Palestinians - everyone despises these prancing virtue signaling activists who are supporting the most vile murderers on earth.  Same with the Abestinians - nobody is 'punching down on them' - it is their self-appointed aristocracy who are attempting a putsch to gain control, Nazi-like, over this country.  In Victoria someone said 1% of the population - and they want to hold the rest to ransom via control over 'land, water and resources' - what's left then?  And the arse kissing has already begun down there with some gold mining company giving them a share of the profits as if they always knew about all that gold there under the ground and how to market it etc.

It's called appeasement and it has never worked yet.  It will only encourage them to demand more while giving nothing in return.... and most of them are whiter than I am anyway, same as here, where I constantly run into classic Gaelic/Celtic women etc wearing 'the shirts' "proudly" .... what the Eld Gel calls 'the one percenters'.
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« Last Edit: May 22nd, 2024 at 12:06pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

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thegreatdivide
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4426 - May 22nd, 2024 at 1:03pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 11:58am:
Gnads wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 11:04am:
Incorrect ..... any so called "crying" is about the fact that despite the result of the referendum ... the Labor states are pushing ahead with state based a "Voice" and Treaties ....

As there are 7 out of 8 States& Territories under Labor administration that would present as an introduction of a Voice by stealth.

Yet Sth Australia who were the 1st state to run an election for an Aboriginal Voice saw less than 10% of eligible Aboriginals turn out.

30,000 people were eligible to vote, but only 2,583 formal ballots were counted.

Seems that even Sth Australian Aboriginals, many of whom also had a vote in the national referendum & voted "no" as did the state on a whole at 60% NO .... don't want a State Voice to Parliament either.

Any hatred that has been engendered as a result of the Voice propaganda has been directed towards the Aboriginal activists and supporters of this divisive campaign.

A similar hatred is being engendered towards all these pro-Palestinian activists protesting and breeding unfettered anti-Semitism and Jew hating on our streets & University campuses.

People like you support politics of division and hatred.
Hypocrites writ large.


Got  him (and them) in one.  None so blind as those who choose to remove their own eyes.


You being a classic example, we all need to work to prosper. 

Quote:
Nobody hates on Palestinians


Except the Israeli defence minister who was caught on camera saying "Palestinians are animals, therefore we must cut the water supply to Gaza"....the ICC prosecutor is very interested.... 


Quote:
- everyone despises these prancing virtue signaling activists who are supporting the most vile murderers on earth. 
 

Wrong, they are supporting justice for Palestinians "from the river to the sea", which fyi means Palestinians in  both Israel and the yet to be created Palestinian state.

Quote:
   Same with the Abestinians - nobody is 'punching down on them' - it is their self-appointed aristocracy who are attempting a putsch to gain control, Nazi-like, over this country.


Again, you have to remove the injustice of the gap, regardless of activists with confused 'sovereingty' motivations.


Quote:
Its called appeasement


That's what activists seek when you don't remove the original cause of injustice, and the gap.   
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4427 - May 22nd, 2024 at 1:20pm
 
.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4428 - May 22nd, 2024 at 1:37pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 1:20pm:
.


Careful, that's what the black activists are saying in Oz....
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4429 - May 22nd, 2024 at 1:50pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 1:37pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 1:20pm:
.


Careful, that's what the black activists are saying in Oz....


..
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Frank
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4430 - May 23rd, 2024 at 7:57am
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 11:04am:
Frank wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 10:59am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 10:35am:
Displacement and dispossession of an ethnicity and ethnoculture by a foreign. dominant ethnicity/ethnoculture necessarily creates an underclass of the displaced and dispossessed.

We all derive our sense of well-being and place in the world primarily through the status of our ethnoculture relative to those it can be compared to, or against those it must compete.

One of the effects of nation-states' hard borders is the capacity for ethnic myths and propaganda to grow and create a sense of relative ethnocultural superiority within those borders.




Oh...!? Is that your own idea?

Is THAT what makes some Aborigines drunken, violent layabouts and others ministers of the crown, doctors, senators and university professors??

How many Aboriginal ministers of the crown, doctors, senators and university professors are also multi-ethnic?

If your thesis were true immigrant nations like Australia, NZ,  Canada, US wouldn't be so successful since they are filled with, built by,  a variety of 'displaced and dispossessed ' Europeans.

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MeisterEckhart
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4431 - May 23rd, 2024 at 8:32am
 
Frank wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 7:57am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 11:04am:
Frank wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 10:59am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 10:35am:
Displacement and dispossession of an ethnicity and ethnoculture by a foreign. dominant ethnicity/ethnoculture necessarily creates an underclass of the displaced and dispossessed.

We all derive our sense of well-being and place in the world primarily through the status of our ethnoculture relative to those it can be compared to, or against those it must compete.

One of the effects of nation-states' hard borders is the capacity for ethnic myths and propaganda to grow and create a sense of relative ethnocultural superiority within those borders.




Oh...!? Is that your own idea?

Is THAT what makes some Aborigines drunken, violent layabouts and others ministers of the crown, doctors, senators and university professors??

How many Aboriginal ministers of the crown, doctors, senators and university professors are also multi-ethnic?

If your thesis were true immigrant nations like Australia, NZ,  Canada, US wouldn't be so successful since they are filled with, built by,  a variety of 'displaced and dispossessed ' Europeans.


Notwithstanding the dramatic ethnic tensions within the early Anglosphere between the likes of the English and Irish, and those among religious/class subcultures of the British Isles, immigrants very quickly adopted new ethnocultures - the notion of being American, Australian, Canadian and NZer - which they strived to become.

These new ethnocultures almost universally excluded the geo-native populations from participation, or included them at the cost of abandoning their geo-native cultures including languages, for a new (Anglo-Euro-centric) identity, and become effectively underclasses within the new ethnocultures
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4432 - May 23rd, 2024 at 10:06am
 
Dispossession and displacement are features of all expanding dominant cultures - with all of them justifying their actions by claiming cultural and moral superiority.

Winston Churchill infamously said of the plight of Australian Aboriginals that he did not apologise for the dispossession and displacement of the native Australian populations nor did he respect any claims for compensation as they were conquered by culturally and morally superior people.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4433 - May 23rd, 2024 at 10:31am
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 10:06am:
Dispossession and displacement are features of all expanding dominant cultures - with all of them justifying their actions by claiming cultural and moral superiority.

Winston Churchill infamously said of the plight of Australian Aboriginals that he did not apologise for the dispossession and displacement of the native Australian populations nor did he respect any claims for compensation as they were conquered by culturally and morally superior people.



For thousands of years the Aborigines themselves lived by the same standards - one little group would come along, see a nice spot, fight it out by ambush and massacre, then claim it as their own.  THAT is why 'land claims' are actually impossible to work out - they've been stolen by force back and forth so many times nobody knows who's who in their 'ownership' of any land they walked over.  apart from that, since they did not use the land, they could only claim the spot they camped on for a while.... and NOBODY camped on places like Mt warning where there is no water etc .... and THAT is why their claims should only be met with a gifting of a plot of land big enough to build on - that's more than any other young couple starting out gets.

Still waiting on a reply from the government over my land claim to that beach in return for walking across it to the surf.... taking a long time.... then there's all my ancestral travels - I'll have to turf a lot of people out of huge parts of Australia.... or make 'em pay rent ....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4434 - May 23rd, 2024 at 10:39am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 10:31am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 10:06am:
Dispossession and displacement are features of all expanding dominant cultures - with all of them justifying their actions by claiming cultural and moral superiority.

Winston Churchill infamously said of the plight of Australian Aboriginals that he did not apologise for the dispossession and displacement of the native Australian populations nor did he respect any claims for compensation as they were conquered by culturally and morally superior people.



For thousands of years the Aborigines themselves lived by the same standards - one little group would come along, see a nice spot, fight it out by ambush and massacre, then claim it as their own.  THAT is why 'land claims' are actually impossible to work out - they've been stolen by force back and forth so many times nobody knows who's who in their 'ownership' of any land they walked over.  apart from that, since they did not use the land, they could only claim the spot they camped on for a while.... and NOBODY camped on places like Mt warning where there is no water etc .... and THAT is why their claims should only be met with a gifting of a plot of land big enough to build on - that's more than any other young couple starting out gets.

As for cultural expansionism, so too for tribal/clan expansionism.

Every square inch of accessible and useable land, wherever humans have inhabited, has been fought over, ending either in stalemate or dispossession and displacement of the vanquished.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4435 - May 23rd, 2024 at 10:44am
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 10:39am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 10:31am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 10:06am:
Dispossession and displacement are features of all expanding dominant cultures - with all of them justifying their actions by claiming cultural and moral superiority.

Winston Churchill infamously said of the plight of Australian Aboriginals that he did not apologise for the dispossession and displacement of the native Australian populations nor did he respect any claims for compensation as they were conquered by culturally and morally superior people.



For thousands of years the Aborigines themselves lived by the same standards - one little group would come along, see a nice spot, fight it out by ambush and massacre, then claim it as their own.  THAT is why 'land claims' are actually impossible to work out - they've been stolen by force back and forth so many times nobody knows who's who in their 'ownership' of any land they walked over.  apart from that, since they did not use the land, they could only claim the spot they camped on for a while.... and NOBODY camped on places like Mt warning where there is no water etc .... and THAT is why their claims should only be met with a gifting of a plot of land big enough to build on - that's more than any other young couple starting out gets.

As for cultural expansionism, so too for tribal/clan expansionism.

Every square inch of accessible and useable land, wherever humans have inhabited, has been fought over, ending either in stalemate or dispossession and displacement of the vanquished.


We agree - but this should never be translated into a permanent feature of 'humanity', a 'right' by which the 'stronger' can enforce such rule on others.... we saw that...... it's a delicate road to follow when cultures are so different - which is why a Two State Solution is best.  The majority MUST hold sway - which doesn't mean total dispossession, but proportionate sharing.

Complex issue, as I said.  What you cannot do is have two different sets of sovereignty over land etc claims competing with one another over every square inch... nor can you hand a disproportionate area of land etc over to a minority and create of them New Lords Of All They Survey and with the right to impose on all others.

That cannot last.... ever ...
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4436 - May 23rd, 2024 at 10:56am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 10:44am:
Complex issue, as I said.  What you cannot do is have two different sets of sovereignty over land etc claims competing with one another over every square inch... nor can you hand a disproportionate area of land etc over to a minority and create of them New Lords Of All They Survey and with the right to impose on all others.

No state is necessarily permanent. Will Australia exist as a single contiguous entity from coast to coast in, say, 200 years?

Why is multi-sovereignty not possible? That is exactly what was once proposed for the city of Jerusalem.
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4437 - May 23rd, 2024 at 11:31am
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 8:32am:
Frank wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 7:57am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 11:04am:
Frank wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 10:59am:
MeisterEckhart wrote on May 22nd, 2024 at 10:35am:
Displacement and dispossession of an ethnicity and ethnoculture by a foreign. dominant ethnicity/ethnoculture necessarily creates an underclass of the displaced and dispossessed.

We all derive our sense of well-being and place in the world primarily through the status of our ethnoculture relative to those it can be compared to, or against those it must compete.

One of the effects of nation-states' hard borders is the capacity for ethnic myths and propaganda to grow and create a sense of relative ethnocultural superiority within those borders.




Oh...!? Is that your own idea?

Is THAT what makes some Aborigines drunken, violent layabouts and others ministers of the crown, doctors, senators and university professors??

How many Aboriginal ministers of the crown, doctors, senators and university professors are also multi-ethnic?

If your thesis were true immigrant nations like Australia, NZ,  Canada, US wouldn't be so successful since they are filled with, built by,  a variety of 'displaced and dispossessed ' Europeans.


Notwithstanding the dramatic ethnic tensions within the early Anglosphere between the likes of the English and Irish, and those among religious/class subcultures of the British Isles, immigrants very quickly adopted new ethnocultures - the notion of being American, Australian, Canadian and NZer - which they strived to become.

These new ethnocultures almost universally excluded the geo-native populations from participation, or included them at the cost of abandoning their geo-native cultures including languages, for a new (Anglo-Euro-centric) identity, and become effectively underclasses within the new ethnocultures


Except for the ministers of the crown, professors, professionals and tradsmen.

An underclass always self-selects. Social mobility is open to all in these new anglosphere countries.  You can hardly b llama them for not imitating the primitive the bv al cultures they found here or the Americas.

Social mobility is alien to tribal  people so if they self-select to remain tribal then social mobility is out for them. It is the same for black Americans, Aborigines etc.
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4438 - May 23rd, 2024 at 12:31pm
 
Foreign cultures establishing themselves in new lands all have one thing in common - their foreignness and, by this, they have common cause to forge a new singular identity (religious and other cultural incompatibilities notwithstanding).

Native cultures are inextricably linked to the territory and history of their geographic location, which is why it is generally unacceptable for, say, a German to demand German customs prevail against the will of the French in France.

But dominant cultures are not dominant by fiat. They are dominant in that they can enforce their rule over competing cultures, native or otherwise - as Putin recently put it, they therefore have a right to sovereignty over the territory and a right to have that sovereignty respected.

Under those conditions, whether alternative or competing cultures have any right to coexist, make territorial claims, or be respected is only determinable by the dominant culture.

It is only in the very recent past that native languages were permitted by the dominant cultures to be spoken within the Anglosphere.
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4439 - May 23rd, 2024 at 6:31pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 12:31pm:
Foreign cultures establishing themselves in new lands all have one thing in common - their foreignness and, by this, they have common cause to forge a new singular identity (religious and other cultural incompatibilities notwithstanding).

Native cultures are inextricably linked to the territory and history of their geographic location, which is why it is generally unacceptable for, say, a German to demand German customs prevail against the will of the French in France.

But dominant cultures are not dominant by fiat. They are dominant in that they can enforce their rule over competing cultures, native or otherwise - as Putin recently put it, they therefore have a right to sovereignty over the territory and a right to have that sovereignty respected.

Under those conditions, whether alternative or competing cultures have any right to coexist, make territorial claims, or be respected is only determinable by the dominant culture.

It is only in the very recent past that native languages were permitted by the dominant cultures to be spoken within the Anglosphere.


The interaction of the French and the Germans is, of course, nothing like that of aborigines and Europeans.

There would NEVER be even remotely even footing for any encounter between a civilisation that had invented the steam engine and sailed across the globe - and a stone age pre-historic people who could not boil water and traveled on foot or by canoe. 

It was the most stupendous contrast between high civilisation and not even rudimentary beginnings of anything approaching civilisation.


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