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Poll closed Poll
Question: Will the referendum be voted in?
*** This poll has now closed ***


No    
  42 (75.0%)
Yes    
  14 (25.0%)




Total votes: 56
« Last Modified by: Redmond Neck on: Feb 25th, 2023 at 11:17am »

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The Aboriginal Voice referendum (Read 91962 times)
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #570 - Jan 17th, 2023 at 2:32pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 17th, 2023 at 9:51am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 17th, 2023 at 7:57am:
Well, now – let's run a few simple tests on YOUR 'analytical skills'...

If Jozefina Bloggos works 28.25 hours per week and is paid $58.02 per hour
totalling $1672.45 a week

and

Joe Bloggs works 36.1 hours per week and is paid $54.17 per hour
totalling $1955.45 per week

Why is there an earnings gap against Jozefina?


1. Because, as you noted, she works less hours - she has greater UNPAID family caring responsibilities over a lifetime.
Irrelevant


2. Are your hourly pay rates correct, on average
Yes


(quick google)

Men are twice as likely to be in the top earning bracket, and women are 1.5 times more likely to be in the lowest.12 Dec 2022
Irrelevant to the overall averages


Presumably " top" and "lowest" refers to hourly pay rates.

Quote:
If Greta Cleft states categorically that the voice proposal will NOT 'close any gaps' and will resolve no problems with Indigenous communities and individuals

Why does Greta persist in discussing the voice proposal in terms of 'closing the gaps'?


Because that is what the voice is supposed to do, ie, it's what the supporters of the voice think it WILL do.
Sot that's not what it will do - it's what they imagine it might do.
 

Quote:
If a gang of serial killers, responsible for sixteen murders including of women and children and other crimes, is tracked down by police and fourteen of the serial killers die in a shootout, while any women and children present are taken into custody pending investigation of their parts

Who then is the party guilty of massacring innocents?


Why only 14 killed by police? I wouldn't have a problem if the police took them all out, if that proved the only way to end it.  And presumably you are referring to women belonging to the gang who are to be examined?
Appin Massacre of the fabled Noble Savages put in correct context


Quote:
Just a little test of your true skills there, girlie....


Test?

A piece of cake....I'm no Ned Kelly lover.
No reference to Ned Kelly, the Noble Revolutionary.


Though the negative circumstances shaping Ned's life ought to be changed, if possible.
Correct - and they persist in some parts to this day for some.  The power of the state and its minions gone wrong.  You SHOULD study and consider Ned Kelly.


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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #571 - Jan 20th, 2023 at 9:29pm
 
.                                                                                        high speed glitch coming through... beware of sound barrier booms ..........
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #572 - Jan 20th, 2023 at 9:31pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 17th, 2023 at 2:32pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 17th, 2023 at 9:51am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 17th, 2023 at 7:57am:
Well, now – let's run a few simple tests on YOUR 'analytical skills'...

If Jozefina Bloggos works 28.25 hours per week and is paid $58.02 per hour
totalling $1672.45 a week

and

Joe Bloggs works 36.1 hours per week and is paid $54.17 per hour
totalling $1955.45 per week

Why is there an earnings gap against Jozefina?


1. Because, as you noted, she works less hours - she has greater UNPAID family caring responsibilities over a lifetime.
Irrelevant


2. Are your hourly pay rates correct, on average
Yes


(quick google)

Men are twice as likely to be in the top earning bracket, and women are 1.5 times more likely to be in the lowest.12 Dec 2022
Irrelevant to the overall averages


Presumably " top" and "lowest" refers to hourly pay rates.

Quote:
If Greta Cleft states categorically that the voice proposal will NOT 'close any gaps' and will resolve no problems with Indigenous communities and individuals

Why does Greta persist in discussing the voice proposal in terms of 'closing the gaps'?


Because that is what the voice is supposed to do, ie, it's what the supporters of the voice think it WILL do.
So that's not what it will do - it's what they imagine it might do.
 

Quote:
If a gang of serial killers, responsible for sixteen murders including of women and children and other crimes, is tracked down by police and fourteen of the serial killers die in a shootout, while any women and children present are taken into custody pending investigation of their parts

Who then is the party guilty of massacring innocents?


Why only 14 killed by police? I wouldn't have a problem if the police took them all out, if that proved the only way to end it.  And presumably you are referring to women belonging to the gang who are to be examined?
Appin Massacre of the fabled Noble Savages put in correct context


Quote:
Just a little test of your true skills there, girlie....


Test?

A piece of cake....I'm no Ned Kelly lover.
No reference to Ned Kelly, the Noble Revolutionary.


Though the negative circumstances shaping Ned's life ought to be changed, if possible.
Correct - and they persist in some parts to this day for some.  The power of the state and its minions gone wrong.  You SHOULD study and consider Ned Kelly.



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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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The Heartless Felon
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #573 - Jan 21st, 2023 at 9:00am
 
Albanese keeps door open to legislating Voice if the referendum fails


"Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has not ruled out legislating the Voice to Parliament should Australians vote to reject enshrining the body in the Constitution, prompting accusations from Opposition Leader Peter Dutton that he was being tricky with the public.

Albanese side-stepped questions on whether he intended to legislate the Voice if the referendum was lost, saying instead that he was not contemplating failure as he was pressed on the option in two interviews.

“Well, one of the things that I’m not doing is leading with a position that assumes a loss of a referendum,” Albanese told 2GB’s Ben Fordham on Wednesday. He provided a similar response on Sky News on Tuesday evening.

But he rejected the assertion that he would be ignoring the will of voters if the government proceeded to legislate the body in the wake of a failed national vote, suggesting the two outcomes were separate, likening the scenario to “confusing rugby league and rugby union”.

“If Australians say no, then there will be no constitutional change,” Albanese said."

Now, that's about as slippery as it gets...


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issuevoter
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #574 - Jan 21st, 2023 at 9:10am
 
A voice in Parliament: Yes. A race based voice in the constitution: No. Bad idea.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #575 - Jan 21st, 2023 at 9:43am
 
The Heartless Felon wrote on Jan 21st, 2023 at 9:00am:
Albanese keeps door open to legislating Voice if the referendum fails


"Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has not ruled out legislating the Voice to Parliament should Australians vote to reject enshrining the body in the Constitution, prompting accusations from Opposition Leader Peter Dutton that he was being tricky with the public.

Albanese side-stepped questions on whether he intended to legislate the Voice if the referendum was lost, saying instead that he was not contemplating failure as he was pressed on the option in two interviews.

“Well, one of the things that I’m not doing is leading with a position that assumes a loss of a referendum,” Albanese told 2GB’s Ben Fordham on Wednesday. He provided a similar response on Sky News on Tuesday evening.

But he rejected the assertion that he would be ignoring the will of voters if the government proceeded to legislate the body in the wake of a failed national vote, suggesting the two outcomes were separate, likening the scenario to “confusing rugby league and rugby union”.

“If Australians say no, then there will be no constitutional change,” Albanese said."

Now, that's about as slippery as it gets...


Interestingly the South Australian parliament  is going to legislate a voice; why can't the Australian government do the same?

"The First Nations Voice Bill 2022 proposes:
A strong, independent and direct line of communication for First Nations peoples to South Australia's Parliament.
Regions are established in South Australia, each with their own Local First Nations Voice".


Seems the nation doesn't need to change its Constitution, just introduce a bill like the above (likely to pass in SA, with Greens and Labor support).   

[The only reason I might vote yes in the proposed voice referendum is: Noel Pearson supports it - and Noel also supports a Job Guarantee].
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #576 - Jan 21st, 2023 at 9:43am
 
>
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #577 - Jan 21st, 2023 at 10:17am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 20th, 2023 at 9:31pm:
Irrelevant


Not irrelevant at all, it's why women are poorer than men, on average.

Quote:
Yes


"Estimates for average weekly ordinary time earnings for full-time adults (seasonally adjusted): Increased by 1.9% to $1,769.80 annually to May 2022. For males were $2,075.30 (public), and $1,835.60 (private). For females were $1,821.30 (public), and $1,523.60 (private)."

Note: I can't find a figure for average HOURLY wages for women: can you supply a link to that figure? 

Quote:
Irrelevant to the overall averages


Addressed above, please supply a link showing average HOURLY wages for women - which you are so concerned about differentiating with average WEEKLY earnings.

Nevertheless, it's average weekly earnings which determine your income over a week, a year and entire working life.   

Quote:
So that's not what it will do - it's what they imagine it might do.
  

Correct. 


Quote:
Appin Massacre of the fabled Noble Savages put in correct context


Ah...so your "serial killers" in fact referred to a specific group - people who might have been seeking revenge for being invaded....

See the problem?

Quote:
No reference to Ned Kelly, the Noble Revolutionary.


a cop killer and a criminal.....see the problem? 

Quote:
Correct - and they persist in some parts to this day for some.  The power of the state and its minions gone wrong.  You SHOULD study and consider Ned Kelly.


See where your delusional 'sovereignty of the individual' ideology leads you, to support a cop-killer and a criminal?

Only the law can be sovereign; you don't like the laws you can change them, starting with the law forbidding treasury/central banks from financing government.....
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #578 - Jan 21st, 2023 at 10:18am
 
>
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Frank
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #579 - Jan 21st, 2023 at 11:30am
 
What will the Voice know that we don't know already?

Thers are about a thousand Aboriginal organisation talking to every level of government. What are they NOT saying that the Voice will be able to?

Why does the Voice need to be in the constitution? Albo will legislate it anyway, dven if the referendum fails.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #580 - Jan 21st, 2023 at 12:06pm
 
>
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #581 - Jan 21st, 2023 at 12:39pm
 
Frank wrote on Jan 21st, 2023 at 11:30am:
What will the Voice know that we don't know already?

Thers are about a thousand Aboriginal organisation talking to every level of government. What are they NOT saying that the Voice will be able to?

Why does the Voice need to be in the constitution? Albo will legislate it anyway, dven if the referendum fails.



Yeah - stuff the will of the people he serves... they need to be put in their proper place of subservience and do what they're told.  A typical neo-Fascist of the 'left', and just as stupid.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #582 - Jan 21st, 2023 at 12:40pm
 
.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #583 - Jan 21st, 2023 at 12:40pm
 
.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #584 - Jan 21st, 2023 at 12:40pm
 
.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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