Australian Politics Forum - The Aboriginal Voice referendum

thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12520 Gender:	Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum Reply #600 - Jan 25^th, 2023 at 3:35pm >
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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #601 - Jan 25^th, 2023 at 3:40pm

Frank wrote on Jan 25^th, 2023 at 12:01pm:

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has dealt his leadership a catastrophic blow on Tuesday when he proved – beyond all reasonable doubt – that Australia does not need a racist clause inserted into the Constitution to listen to Indigenous voices.

Albanese was able to manage this with a quick hop on his private jet, landing in Alice Springs to meet with community leaders and elders, ‘listening to their voices’ and making a decision far quicker than any gene-tested Canberra bureaucracy.

As it turns out, all Parliament needs in order to listen to Indigenous voices is, well, a set of ears. (And maybe a private jet.)

Love it.

But it will soon become evident Albo didn't change much, since welfare dependency itself is associated with excess demand for alcohol.

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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12520 Gender:	Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum Reply #602 - Jan 25^th, 2023 at 3:41pm >
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Johnnie

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #603 - Jan 25^th, 2023 at 5:34pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 25^th, 2023 at 3:40pm:

Frank wrote on Jan 25^th, 2023 at 12:01pm:

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has dealt his leadership a catastrophic blow on Tuesday when he proved – beyond all reasonable doubt – that Australia does not need a racist clause inserted into the Constitution to listen to Indigenous voices.

Albanese was able to manage this with a quick hop on his private jet, landing in Alice Springs to meet with community leaders and elders, ‘listening to their voices’ and making a decision far quicker than any gene-tested Canberra bureaucracy.

As it turns out, all Parliament needs in order to listen to Indigenous voices is, well, a set of ears. (And maybe a private jet.)

Love it.

But it will soon become evident Albo didn't change much, since welfare dependency itself is associated with excess demand for alcohol.

Albo fixed up the Alice, when will he pay a visit to Pt. Augusta?

Why are all these stone age peoples allowed to live out in bush retreats bludging for their entire lives.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #604 - Jan 25^th, 2023 at 6:39pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 25^th, 2023 at 3:35pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 25^th, 2023 at 11:42am:

Go for it - remove their fortnightly fix and their rent payments .... find them jobs instead .... maybe they could all earn a good living as orators raving about their disadvantage and such and how everyone else did it to them.

well, there is a limitless amount of useful work to be done, and since society's necessities are produced by a small proportion of the population in the modern AI and IT enhanced economy, then govt ought to be acting as employer of last resort.

No problem then - should take a week or so....

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No voice will do that for them... only become another avenue for the same old demands for cargo cult.

Agreed, but if the voice does get up, then complex issues re culture, sovereignty, welfare dependency, and the role of government, might be more thoroughly examined than would be the case without a more prominent black voice, leading to better outcomes.

Not necessarily to better outcomes - don't use catch phrases around here.... their culture is treated well by other, but that is not reciprocated - their sovereignty is to Australia first or Outski - social security/cargo cult dependency I'll believe will change when it does for them - the role of government should properly be the same for all ....

Just might ....

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Following on from my story -

Fallacy of composition; your personal success does not negate the macro economic reality of involuntary unemployment.
If one can do it - others can - or at least try .... they could at least give it a go... remember McMurphy and the drinking fountain? No fallacy at all in any way - everyone has the right to try - there is no guarantee of success - but if you never try you will never succeed - that is the reality. You confuse, like feminists do, the right to try with the right to absolute success... and having that enforced for you if you don't make it.... that is the major problem here. There is no 'right' to equality of outcomes - therefore feminist ideology must fall for true progress.... and it will hot help the struggling Cheer out there in the Ning Nang Nong..

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #605 - Jan 26^th, 2023 at 12:52pm

Johnnie wrote on Jan 25^th, 2023 at 5:34pm:

Albo fixed up the Alice, when will he pay a visit to Pt. Augusta?

No need for sarcasm, but of course Albo's alcohol bans alone won't fix the problem of black crime.

Quote:

Why are all these stone age peoples allowed to live out in bush retreats bludging for their entire lives.

Because our current obsolete neoclassical/ Friedmanite monetary system rules out provision of jobs in the communities, settling for provision of below poverty-level dole instead.

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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12520 Gender:	Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum Reply #606 - Jan 26^th, 2023 at 12:53pm >
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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #607 - Jan 26^th, 2023 at 1:10pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 25^th, 2023 at 6:39pm:

No problem then - should take a week or so....

yes. the old CDEP can be readily consulted.

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No voice will do that for them... only become another avenue for the same old demands for cargo cult.

Not necessarily to better outcomes - don't use catch phrases around here.... their culture is treated well by other, but that is not reciprocated - their sovereignty is to Australia first or Outski - social security/cargo cult dependency I'll believe will change when it does for them - the role of government should properly be the same for all ....

I agree adherence to certain aspects of an eclipsed culture, which the voice will in part promote, and which people are trying to maintain, is unrealistic.

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If one can do it - others can - or at least try .... they could at least give it a go... remember McMurphy and the drinking fountain? No fallacy at all in any way - everyone has the right to try - there is no guarantee of success - but if you never try you will never succeed - that is the reality.

Ok, playing along: what do those who don't succeed do?

Subsist on the dole, drinking themselves to death, and generally being anti-social?

Quote:

You confuse, like feminists do, the right to try with the right to absolute success... and having that enforced for you if you don't make it.... that is the major problem here. There is no 'right' to equality of outcomes - therefore feminist ideology must fall for true progress.... and it will hot help the struggling Cheer out there in the Ning Nang Nong..

Been explained to you many times, your denseness is no excuse not to learn.

Re the highlighted ...AGAIN...listen carefully:

equality of opportunity, via provision of a job, is not the same as equality of outcome (Musk attests to that...).

Whereas subsistence on the dole - as a result of systemic inadequacy (not the individual's fault) - is very much
IN-equality of opportunity.

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« Last Edit: Jan 26^th, 2023 at 1:15pm by thegreatdivide »

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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 12520 Gender:	Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum Reply #608 - Jan 26^th, 2023 at 1:11pm >
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Steampipe

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #609 - Jan 26^th, 2023 at 1:47pm

Australia is going to create a Palestine situation for itself if we have two distinct nationalities in Australia.

My father/mother, grandfather/mother and great grandfather/mother were born in Australia and I can't see how anyone can be more Australian than me.

Is it not pure racism if I'm denied the same rights as any Australian based simply on my color.

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Johnnie

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #610 - Jan 26^th, 2023 at 3:39pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 26^th, 2023 at 12:52pm:

Johnnie wrote on Jan 25^th, 2023 at 5:34pm:

Albo fixed up the Alice, when will he pay a visit to Pt. Augusta?

No need for sarcasm, but of course Albo's alcohol bans alone won't fix the problem of black crime.

Quote:

Why are all these stone age peoples allowed to live out in bush retreats bludging for their entire lives.

Because our current obsolete neoclassical/ Friedmanite monetary system rules out provision of jobs in the communities, settling for provision of below poverty-level dole instead.

They need to go to where the work is because the work is not going to come to them, Plenty of people have to move from their home state for work or be away from their families for weeks at a time like miners but they do it for their families, the Boongs won't lift a finger to help themselves, most of them don't work and they can't even get up and get their kids to school, they just sit in the dirt and drink free VB tinnies.

Aussie Aussie Aussie, are they even Aussies.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 83852 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum Reply #611 - Jan 26^th, 2023 at 10:42pm
Back to top	“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams IP Logged

Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #612 - Jan 26^th, 2023 at 10:47pm

Johnnie wrote on Jan 26^th, 2023 at 3:39pm:

Aussie Aussie Aussie, are they even Aussies.

Well - some of them claim they never gave up their Aboriginal sovereignty - that they never had.... and as such they are not Australians since they offer allegiance to another concept .... therefore they are not entitled to any citizenship rights in Australia, and unless they take the pledge of allegiance, can receive no benefits and must hold a visa to even work or stay here...

Guess they didn't think that one through very well...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #613 - Jan 27^th, 2023 at 11:28am

Johnnie wrote on Jan 26^th, 2023 at 3:39pm:

They need to go to where the work is because the work is not going to come to them,

They can't do it while living on the dole, in dysfunctional families, with no education, and no job skills.

So, initially at least, the government will have to "make the work come to them".....so they can get job-skilled.

It's a bit like the assistance government supplied to enable unemployed youth in cities to move the country to gain low-skilled work in agriculture, etc.

ie, government assistance, beyond subsistence dole, is required.

Quote:

Plenty of people have to move from their home state for work or be away from their families for weeks at a time like miners but they do it for their families, the Boongs won't lift a finger to help themselves,

Those families are functional units, unlike the families in the camps around the Alice.

Quote:

most of them don't work and they can't even get up and get their kids to school, they just sit in the dirt and drink free VB tinnies.

aka welfare dependency: a 'chicken and egg' problem.

Quote:

Aussie Aussie Aussie, are they even Aussies.

They are victims of a vicious neoliberal job market, which only government can, and must, intervene in.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #614 - Jan 27^th, 2023 at 11:33am

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 26^th, 2023 at 10:47pm:

Johnnie wrote on Jan 26^th, 2023 at 3:39pm:

Aussie Aussie Aussie, are they even Aussies.

Well - some of them claim they never gave up their Aboriginal sovereignty - that they never had.... and as such they are not Australians since they offer allegiance to another concept .... therefore they are not entitled to any citizenship rights in Australia, and unless they take the pledge of allegiance, can receive no benefits and must hold a visa to even work or stay here...

Guess they didn't think that one through very well...

Yes, and btw, some will, or are ready to 'declare war', whether the voice gets up or not.

Might be smart for the nation to guarantee above poverty employment in useful work.

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Poll
Question: Will the referendum be voted in?
* This poll has now closed *
No 42 (75.0%) Yes 14 (25.0%) Total votes: 56 « Last Modified by: Redmond Neck on: Feb 25^th, 2023 at 11:17am »