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Poll closed Poll
Question: Will the referendum be voted in?
*** This poll has now closed ***


No    
  42 (75.0%)
Yes    
  14 (25.0%)




Total votes: 56
« Last Modified by: Redmond Neck on: Feb 25th, 2023 at 11:17am »

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The Aboriginal Voice referendum (Read 91930 times)
thegreatdivide
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #615 - Jan 27th, 2023 at 11:34am
 
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #616 - Jan 27th, 2023 at 3:00pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 27th, 2023 at 11:33am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 26th, 2023 at 10:47pm:
Johnnie wrote on Jan 26th, 2023 at 3:39pm:
Aussie Aussie Aussie, are they even Aussies.


Well - some of them claim they never gave up their Aboriginal sovereignty - that they never had.... and as such they are not Australians since they offer allegiance to another concept .... therefore they are not entitled to any citizenship rights in Australia, and unless they take the pledge of allegiance, can receive no benefits and must hold a visa to even work or stay here...

Guess they didn't think that one through very well...


Yes, and btw, some will, or are ready to 'declare war', whether the voice gets up or not.

Might be smart for the nation to guarantee above poverty employment in useful work.


Might be smart to prepare for war by having a well organised militia as stop-gap.... then arises the thorny question of the use of the armed forces within Australia's borders.

Clearly, as I've been saying for some time now, some of them consider themselves at war with the rest of us - and this should be very carefully scrutinised... remember the five years of terrorism at Mt Warning car park where visitors could come back to their cars to find smashed windows etc.... hardly coincidence... then all these unusual fires up in the Far North Coast and Hinterland area of NSW ... following on from the incredible Summer of Bushfires, where I can tell you myself there were fires freshly lit every day right near here.... on the island across the strait when a huge wind was behind it towards town ... in the nature reserve opposite the high school.... all along the hills to the east of where we lived before moving (got the waterbombing on video) started in the heart of town and spread that way with blazes starting up one after another...nearly took out an aged care facility then.... and daily fresh fires starting up across the river shortly after school close time.... funny that.... and now most of the young fullahs from town are in prisons without much reporting from the media...... funny that...

We've been in a brushfire war - a terror war - from some of them for over five years now.... and you lot have missed it.... now when Albo - The Marrickville Milquetoast - starts his surrender monkey act sans organ grinder - it will get worse, especially when the ridiculous voice idea is put to the grave for good.

The BLM movement, when the initial response from cops etc was to try to calm it down with a little taking the knee etc... only got worse and turned into a near civil war.  WHEN Albo starts the same stupidity here - all that will do is encourage them to greater and greater excess - and if the rhetoric of that crazy thorpe woman down Melbadishu is anything to go by - you'd best be ready.
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #617 - Jan 27th, 2023 at 3:04pm
 
Might be some jobs at the Aboriginal Embassy, rubber stamping their visa applications... could be a start.... but as a separate set of 'nations' they'll have to self-fund....

What makes you think offering them all jobs will solve the problems?  That's never worked anywhere else...

Here, Boys -  good Darkey!:-

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Frank
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #618 - Jan 27th, 2023 at 4:27pm
 
We need a Voice TO Aborigines, not to parliament. A Voice they listen to and heed. A Voice that says loud and clear:

"Shape The bugger Up!!"

Enough of the stupid excuses, the delinquency, crime, self-pity. Nobody MAKES Aborignes neglect theif children, let them roam and commit crimes, leg them neglect school, nobody makes Aborigines drunk by midday,  beat the hell out of each other, kill and maim each other.

You wouldn't put up with this shite for decades from anyone else - but the instant threat of 'racism, stolen generation, colonial trauma' in response to any measure to stop the destruction including of successive generations of Aboriginal children's lives at the hand of their parents and grandparents paralyses everyone. It shouldn't because the reflexive, contant arse covering cries of wacism, stolen generation, colonial trauma are total BS.

Why are we expected to "pay ouf respects to elders past and present" (and a bloody fee for the ceremonial hocus-pocus)  when they preside over total chaos, degradation and nsenseless violence, crime and abuse?? I have zero respect for the Aboriginal 'elders'. A bloodh disgrace is what they are presiding over and lead  successive generations to ruin and destruction.

Where is their Voice to their own people?  Get your own houses (provided by everyone ELSE) in order first.

Voice to Parliament?? Nuts to that. Voice to your fellow Aborigines first.
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #619 - Jan 27th, 2023 at 11:34pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 27th, 2023 at 3:04pm:
What makes you think offering them all jobs will solve the problems?  That's never worked anywhere else...


Governments since the 1980s Freidmanite horror show have fought inflation first (hence the NAIRU economy), rather than unemployment first, as in the Keynesian period 1950-1970s. 

As for blacks, they were employed as stockmen in the outback stations before equal pay legislation saw racist bosses sack them in favour of white stockmen. 

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #620 - Jan 27th, 2023 at 11:34pm
 
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Frank
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #621 - Jan 28th, 2023 at 1:54pm
 
Always central to the Enlightenment tradition, the principle that all citizens have the same constitutional rights and obligations endured as a beacon of Western thought. It is therefore no accident that Rene Cassin, the great French jurist, placed it at the heart of the UN’s 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which he co-authored in the wake of the Holocaust.

Now, spurning that tradition, we are told the key to building a fairer Australia lies in reversing the arc of democratic progress: for all citizens to eventually be equal, it seems, some citizens must be made more equal than others.

Yet that catchcry, which has always been the calling card of democracy’s worst enemies, has invariably been falsified by history; and there is little reason to believe the political inequality we are being urged to adopt will prove an exception.

In effect, rather than reducing the differences that separate us, the voice will cement them into an effectively irremovable constitutional reality.

At the same time, it is likely to engender the conviction that Indigenous Australians have some inherent trait that defines them and makes it impossible for their interests and aspirations to be fully represented by their non-Indigenous fellow citizens. And by reinforcing those stereotypes, it risks hardening the lines of division that have wreaked so much harm.

Nor do the dangers end there. If there is a lesson to be drawn from the indigenous representative bodies that have been established in the Nordic countries, it is that determining who is and who is not “Indigenous” will be intensely and perpetually controversial.

That question, which nearly toppled the Finnish government just a few months ago, inevitably draws the state into decisions that all too readily degenerate into matters of race.

Is that really what we want to leave our children and grandchildren: a country in which abhorrent distinctions based on biology are used to bestow constitutional privileges on some Australians and deny them to others?

Yes, powerful forces – such as the High Court’s ill-judged decisions in the cases of Love and Thoms – have helped push us in that direction. However, the fact those forces are already so strong only underscores the folly of stoking racial separatism’s flames.

In the end, the voice will undoubtedly make its supporters feel virtuous. Equally undoubtedly, it will create jobs: in some cases for people of good will; in others for the industry that feeds off what Peter Sutton aptly called the politics of suffering. But as the experience of its counterparts overseas has repeatedly shown, what it will not and cannot do is address that suffering’s root causes.

Rather, it smacks of the symbolic politics which, by confusing illusions for solutions, has done so much to create the mess we’re in. With Alice Springs spending the Australia Day weekend gripped in an epidemic of dystopian violence, this country’s future deserves better.

HENRY ERGAS


The Voice referendum must fail.

The paradox is that it is such a stupid and sinister idea that there will be immense damage to reconciliation whether it fails or succeeds.
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #622 - Jan 28th, 2023 at 5:02pm
 
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Frank
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #623 - Jan 28th, 2023 at 5:10pm
 
Voice of hypocrites


In response to the violence, new Country Liberal senator for the Northern Territory Jacinta Nampijinpa Price and the new member for the federal seat of Lingiari, Marion Scrymgour, both of whom represent the Alice Springs area, called for restrictions to be re-imposed. Ms Price called for the return of the bans and Ms Scrymgour called for restrictions on some days. Both were completely ignored by Mr Albanese who took his lead instead from the NT Labor government’s Chief Minister Natasha Fyles.This underlines everything that is wrong with Mr Albanese’s plan. Instead of listening to democratically elected local women with first-hand knowledge of the problems and constructive suggestions for the solution, Mr Albanese listened to a Labor leader from the left faction who also ignored the advice of local indigenous women. Mr Albanese has been more interested in talking about the Voice to parliament than protecting Aboriginal men, women and children from the scourge of crime and violence. Neither he nor Ms Fyles want ‘race-based’ solutions to alcohol abuse but are backing a race-based Voice to parliament.

Ms Price criticised the Prime Minister for being quick to provide resources to the Ukraine while turning a blind eye to the violence in the territory. And Ms Scrymgour belled the cat when she said this week that ‘the Voice couldn’t be further from people’s view’ in Alice Springs because they were ‘under siege’. They were asking why they should support the Voice if they can’t even get police to protect them while they are sleeping in their own homes?

As proof that it is impossible for an indigenous Voice to speak for all Aboriginal people, indigenous leader Noel Pearson, one of the creators of the Voice proposal, attacked both Ms Price and Greens senator Lidia Thorpe for opposing it. In return, Ms Thorpe attacked Mr Pearson, posting a photo of him with News Corp chairman Rupert Murdoch and former Liberal prime minister Tony Abbott and tweeted, ‘Noel has me holding hands with Jacinta Price lol. Who’s holding your hand, Uncle?’

Ms Thorpe has reiterated the call for Australian property owners to pay a weekly ‘rent’ tax to indigenous groups who claim to own the land. Such proposals have been around for more than 50 years. Ms Thorpe does not say whether she has paid any rent to traditional owners. It seems unlikely.

Elsewhere, Tennis Australia refused to celebrate Australia Day at the Australian Open but happily celebrates a Gay Pride day. If Gay Pride is so important to Tennis Australia, perhaps it could explain why it is happy to accept sponsorship from Emirates which is owned by the government of Dubai, when Article 177 of the Penal Code of Dubai imposes imprisonment for up to ten years for consensual sodomy. Sadly, it seems, from Darwin to Dubai, fashionable leftists are more interested in trumpeting their virtues than alleviating the suffering of marginalised people.
Spectator Australia
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #624 - Jan 28th, 2023 at 10:52pm
 
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Frank
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #625 - Jan 29th, 2023 at 7:19am
 
Australia in a is a signatory to International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination:

1. In this Convention, the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.


https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/international-conven...
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #626 - Jan 29th, 2023 at 2:05pm
 
Frank wrote on Jan 28th, 2023 at 1:54pm:
The paradox is that it is such a stupid and sinister idea that there will be immense damage to reconciliation whether it fails or succeeds.


Reconciliation of the two cultures is impossible.

The voice will do no harm, and may hasten an understanding that a reconciliation of the two cultures is impossible, which would be a good thing.


Like Thomas Paine in the 'rights' ferment of the 18th century, Noel Pearson recognises we are all men first, separate cultures second, so there is hope for a better future. 
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #627 - Jan 29th, 2023 at 2:06pm
 
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #628 - Jan 29th, 2023 at 3:09pm
 
Lidia Thorpe in the last few days is a good example of why we needn't dismiss phrenology out of hand.
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #629 - Jan 30th, 2023 at 1:15am
 
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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