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Poll closed Poll
Question: Will the referendum be voted in?
*** This poll has now closed ***


No    
  42 (75.0%)
Yes    
  14 (25.0%)




Total votes: 56
« Last Modified by: Redmond Neck on: Feb 25th, 2023 at 11:17am »

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The Aboriginal Voice referendum (Read 91655 times)
Captain Caveman
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #810 - Feb 22nd, 2023 at 5:08am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 22nd, 2023 at 4:00am:
.



Gee, I hope you're correct.
People will still vote yes.
I could name the numpties on here that will vote yes.
They seem to fit in that (against normality) category on nearly every subject.
A lot of us here agree on an umbrella of normality, those jokers are always out in the rain trying to rip the umbrella out of the hands of the stronger women and men.
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Gnads
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #811 - Feb 22nd, 2023 at 7:35am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 20th, 2023 at 11:23am:
Gnads wrote on Feb 19th, 2023 at 6:46pm:
You've got nothing but ideologue waffle.


And your arguments to defend that assertion?

There are plenty of  ideas in my post for you to refute; pick one and have a go at refutation.



You've got nothing except ideologue waffle & the insistence that the CDEP should be re-introduced & it will solve all the problems that billions of dollars & other programs have failed to do in the last 50 years.
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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Gnads
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #812 - Feb 22nd, 2023 at 7:38am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 19th, 2023 at 4:08pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 19th, 2023 at 2:24pm:
You need to get off that one horse - your saddle sores are making you stick to the saddle.... and you are interfering with the free flow of discussion ON the point....


Interfering? I think you'll find Voltaire would not accuse me of that....

Quote:
You go give the Abos your economic solutions and how they can participate in them willingly....


I worked because I had to, like most of us (unlike Mozart who had a direct line to the infinite all his life...and yet his widow couldn't afford to pay for his funeral....understand?) 

Quote:
they'll line up as long as the free funding is there, they won't show up but will expect to be paid, idiots will pay them for that, then they'll dry up like the Todd River once the cash is gone, leaving behind not one trace of skill or motivation to improve their own community in the bush......


Participating - and being paid - for useful work is NOT "free funding".

And you need more than one generation to change a culture.

Quote:
Seventeen out of Nineteen initiatives to close gaps have failed in the last thrust..... gone backwards.... why do you imagine that is?  Whartey got his knee on their necks in the streets of the Alice or something?


No: whartey is confusing real resources with money, and hence cancelling successful participatory schemes like the CDEP, because "it cost too much"... showing a complete lack of understanding of how money is created....


Quote:
Now watch the evasion, people ........ economic models... failed stuff long dead..... no change ....


No evasion: "it's the economy, stupid".

You don't believe it? That's a problem you must deal with.

And begin by learning the difference between real resources, and money: real resources (inc. labour) are finite, but not limited by money, which means the issue is resource allocation), NOT money which is created out of thin air.

But by all means carry on with your 'anti voice' crusade, if you think 'NO" will achieve something positive.


And what are the positives of a "Yes" vote?

Note I haven't edited your post but quoted the full thing & highlighted what I wanted to respond to?

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #813 - Feb 22nd, 2023 at 11:14am
 
Gnads wrote on Feb 22nd, 2023 at 7:38am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 19th, 2023 at 4:08pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 19th, 2023 at 2:24pm:
You need to get off that one horse - your saddle sores are making you stick to the saddle.... and you are interfering with the free flow of discussion ON the point....


Interfering? I think you'll find Voltaire would not accuse me of that....

Quote:
You go give the Abos your economic solutions and how they can participate in them willingly....


I worked because I had to, like most of us (unlike Mozart who had a direct line to the infinite all his life...and yet his widow couldn't afford to pay for his funeral....understand?) 

Quote:
they'll line up as long as the free funding is there, they won't show up but will expect to be paid, idiots will pay them for that, then they'll dry up like the Todd River once the cash is gone, leaving behind not one trace of skill or motivation to improve their own community in the bush......


Participating - and being paid - for useful work is NOT "free funding".

And you need more than one generation to change a culture.

Quote:
Seventeen out of Nineteen initiatives to close gaps have failed in the last thrust..... gone backwards.... why do you imagine that is?  Whartey got his knee on their necks in the streets of the Alice or something?


No: whartey is confusing real resources with money, and hence cancelling successful participatory schemes like the CDEP, because "it cost too much"... showing a complete lack of understanding of how money is created....


Quote:
Now watch the evasion, people ........ economic models... failed stuff long dead..... no change ....


No evasion: "it's the economy, stupid".

You don't believe it? That's a problem you must deal with.

And begin by learning the difference between real resources, and money: real resources (inc. labour) are finite, but not limited by money, which means the issue is resource allocation), NOT money which is created out of thin air.

But by all means carry on with your 'anti voice' crusade, if you think 'NO" will achieve something positive.


And what are the positives of a "Yes" vote?

Note I haven't edited your post but quoted the full thing & highlighted what I wanted to respond to?



A communication to the black community that the nation cares about closing the egregious gap (ie, the 3rd world poverty among blacks).
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #814 - Feb 22nd, 2023 at 12:56pm
 
Nothing then?  Not at the cost of Parliamentary elected democracy.... thanks for coming Adolph.

It's been explained over and over - they need to come to the party on closing gaps etc...
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #815 - Feb 22nd, 2023 at 1:01pm
 
"You got flagon Gubba?" Huh
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #816 - Feb 22nd, 2023 at 1:04pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 22nd, 2023 at 12:56pm:
Nothing then?  Not at the cost of Parliamentary elected democracy.... thanks for coming Adolph.

It's been explained over and over - they need to come to the party on closing gaps etc...


Gnads asked for a positive, I gave him one, I didn't say the voice would actually succeed in closing the gap (as believed/hoped by its supporters). 

Whereas we KNOW a no vote won't close the gap, though it may have positives (eg avoiding disputes over constitutional "sovereignty").   
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Agnes.
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #817 - Feb 22nd, 2023 at 1:17pm
 
I think they ought to have the power to decide which ungrateful/insulting/asshole on internet forums ought to be exposed for who they really are rather than  have the priviledge of hiding behind fake  names that protect them from  the horrible things they would never have the guts to say the face of a single black man in person- they should have the right to cancel assholes and ruin them forever!

A voice should have some power behind it !
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #818 - Feb 22nd, 2023 at 2:26pm
 
Agnes. wrote on Feb 22nd, 2023 at 1:17pm:
I think they ought to have the power to decide which ungrateful/insulting/asshole on internet forums ought to be exposed for who they really are rather than  have the priviledge of hiding behind fake  names that protect them from  the horrible things they would never have the guts to say the face of a single black man in person- they should have the right to cancel assholes and ruin them forever!

A voice should have some power behind it !


That is precisely the problem - it was never intended to have any power - but to be an ADVISORY body ONLY!  To have power means it is destroying our form of democratic elected government... and that.... little darling...means civil war.  Nobody said our current form of elected democratic government was perfect and didn't need some tweaking - but NEVER along lines of handing additional power and control to some modern-day Neo-Fascist minority body of ANY colour!

If White supremacists made up 3% of the population, would you be howling down the road of handing them power and control over our parliament - as Marcia Langton admitted the black supremacists want?

Capisce?

Clearly you are part of the problem and not of the solution...
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #819 - Feb 22nd, 2023 at 2:28pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 22nd, 2023 at 1:04pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 22nd, 2023 at 12:56pm:
Nothing then?  Not at the cost of Parliamentary elected democracy.... thanks for coming Adolph.

It's been explained over and over - they need to come to the party on closing gaps etc...


Gnads asked for a positive, I gave him one, I didn't say the voice would actually succeed in closing the gap (as believed/hoped by its supporters). 

Whereas we KNOW a no vote won't close the gap, though it may have positives (eg avoiding disputes over constitutional "sovereignty").   



So destroying democracy here will send a message that some gap might possibly be closed?  Steep price to pay for a fairy tale.

Just admit it, O Ye Of Little Thought - the voice was dead, cremated and its ashes scattered the moment 'professor' Langton made that utterly revealing statement that they expected and demanded that it have real power to slow, stop or change the course of elected Parliament.

The voice proposal is goneski..... adios, muchacho... hasta la vista, baby....
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #820 - Feb 22nd, 2023 at 2:36pm
 
The Voice will be in charge of Australia and will tell the Cabinet what it can and cannot do

Screw that

Anyone who votes yes for this is craze
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #821 - Feb 22nd, 2023 at 3:26pm
 
Here are Marcia Langton's own words:-

“If a decision is made without listening to the Voice it could be challenged in the High Court and potentially stopped from being implemented until the Voice has been heard.  That's a possibility and why wouldn't we want that to be the case.  If nothing that the Voice says is subject to the ordinary laws – in other words it's completely gutted and has no safe standing, if you like, then the government can ignore all of the Voice's decisions with impunity.  And I think that's what Craven's aiming for, he's aiming for... you know.. a toothless tiger.”



Plenty of real meat there for discussion, children..... let's hear it by start of class tomorrow morning.
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #822 - Feb 22nd, 2023 at 4:06pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 22nd, 2023 at 3:26pm:
Here are Marcia Langton's own words:-

“If a decision is made without listening to the Voice it could be challenged in the High Court and potentially stopped from being implemented until the Voice has been heard.  That's a possibility and why wouldn't we want that to be the case.  If nothing that the Voice says is subject to the ordinary laws – in other words it's completely gutted and has no safe standing, if you like, then the government can ignore all of the Voice's decisions with impunity.  And I think that's what Craven's aiming for, he's aiming for... you know.. a toothless tiger.”



Plenty of real meat there for discussion, children..... let's hear it by start of class tomorrow morning.


Oh?

Quote:
Marcia Langton warns of risk of ‘nasty, eugenicist’ debate about race ahead of voice referendum

“We have to take these matters seriously. This is too important to play nasty electoral politics about … it would be terribly unfortunate for all Australians if the debate sinks into a nasty, eugenicist, 19th century-style of debate about the superior race versus the inferior race.”


https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/dec/05/indigenous-voice-to-parli...
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thegreatdivide
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #823 - Feb 22nd, 2023 at 4:44pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 22nd, 2023 at 2:28pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 22nd, 2023 at 1:04pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 22nd, 2023 at 12:56pm:
Nothing then?  Not at the cost of Parliamentary elected democracy.... thanks for coming Adolph.

It's been explained over and over - they need to come to the party on closing gaps etc...


Gnads asked for a positive, I gave him one, I didn't say the voice would actually succeed in closing the gap (as believed/hoped by its supporters). 

Whereas we KNOW a no vote won't close the gap, though it may have positives (eg avoiding disputes over constitutional "sovereignty").   



So destroying democracy here will send a message that some gap might possibly be closed?  Steep price to pay for a fairy tale.

Just admit it, O Ye Of Little Thought -


Well, I already agreed (some posts back) the voice is dead if Langton's views indeed require the cabinet to act on the voice.

Albo will have to take control of the narrative, and confirm cabinet can act without consulting the voice, or/and can ignore its advice.

Prof Craven will have some more  talking to do, if he still supports the voice.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #824 - Feb 22nd, 2023 at 5:57pm
 
The voice is dead - only a total fool would take that chance.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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