Australian Politics Forum - The Aboriginal Voice referendum

mothra

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #840 - Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 8:20am

Gnads wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 8:16am:

mothra wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 8:10am:

Gnads wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 8:08am:

mothra wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 7:51am:

Gnads wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 7:47am:

Karnal wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 4:06pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 3:26pm:

Here are Marcia Langton's own words:-

“If a decision is made without listening to the Voice it could be challenged in the High Court and potentially stopped from being implemented until the Voice has been heard. That's a possibility and why wouldn't we want that to be the case. If nothing that the Voice says is subject to the ordinary laws – in other words it's completely gutted and has no safe standing, if you like, then the government can ignore all of the Voice's decisions with impunity. And I think that's what Craven's aiming for, he's aiming for... you know.. a toothless tiger.”

Plenty of real meat there for discussion, children..... let's hear it by start of class tomorrow morning.

Oh?

Quote:

Marcia Langton warns of risk of ‘nasty, eugenicist’ debate about race ahead of voice referendum

“We have to take these matters seriously. This is too important to play nasty electoral politics about … it would be terribly unfortunate for all Australians if the debate sinks into a nasty, eugenicist, 19th century-style of debate about the superior race versus the inferior race.”

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/dec/05/indigenous-voice-to-parli...

What a load of BS.

No one is doing that.

Typical Langton - saying something controversial to distract from the issue....... you?

No-one is doing that? Have you read these threads?

Literally, they are over-laden with people doing precisely that. You too, if i'm not mistaken. At least you've defended it.

No-one is doing that my arse.

Rubbish. What Langton said is also rubbish.

Playing the race card because people don't agree with this "voice" is weak as piss.... & I know you are.

While i concede you may understand more than Crappler (and don't get too puffed up over that, it's not hard), you're still completely oblivious.

There is no "race card" being played because people aren't being agreed with. And this "race card" is not any sort of veto.

Really? Langton bringing in statements warning of eugenics & the superior man vs the inferior man hypothesis into the voice debate is doing exactly that... playing the race card.

And when she openly states that the "Voice" should have power to access the High Court over matters the Govt may not want to entertain she's saying that it will have a form of veto.....

all at taxpayers expense.

Firstly, that first comment was directed at you lot/ How does it fit?

Secondly, there is no form of veto. Finite. End.

What there is is an expectation that the Voice be "listened to" in regards to ATSI affairs.

How you lot begrudge this is utterly beyond me.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Boris Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3977 Gender:	Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum Reply #841 - Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 8:24am Watch this
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #842 - Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 8:25am

mothra wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 8:17am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 8:15am:

mothra wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 8:10am:

While i concede you may understand more than Crappler (and don't get too puffed up over that, it's not hard), you're still completely oblivious.

There is no "race card" being played because people aren't being agreed with. And this "race card" is not any sort of veto.

So Langton's hysterical comment on eugenics has no relevance? If the voice doesn't get up - and it won't - the Abos will be wiped out?

I somehow doubt that... BTW I love it when you try to hate on me - you are such a child..... and your views are laughable.... Grin

I take it you have no points to make about Langton's faux pas there apart from just refusing to engage with it at all?

An advisory only body for 3% of the population at most that must have the right to stop government at its whim..... what a hoot!!!

Again, you're in no position to be accusing anyone else of being hysterical.

You're grasping again.... nothing to say about Langton's faux pas piled on faux pas, eh? So to you a free and open discussion of a move to alter our constitution is hysteria?

Houso, as I said.... no idea... **chortles** a purely advisory body must have the absolute right to stop government over any issue that it feels is warranted **chortles** ... bet you wouldn't say that about any mining lobby group....

Albo, like Abbot - is a watershed in Australian politics.... the public get to see in full panoply, the utter stupidity and cupidity of both sides of The Tag Team and how they have betrayed Australia... and the issues long buried that need open discussion are now being discussed - and don't you petty houso zealots hate it!!! Just when you thought this voice nonsense was a walk-up start......

Now then - about that corruption in ATSI organisations.... you haven't answered that yet..... nothing to say? I mean - you did claim it wasn't ATSI people who were corrupt in those organisations ..... of course not ... so when asked who was then... YOU RAN WEEPING LIKE A MASTURBATING BONOBO IN HEAT!!

See how they run like pigs from a gun.....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #843 - Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 8:31am

Love the way Langton leaps to this:-

"it would be terribly unfortunate for all Australians if the debate sinks into a nasty, eugenicist, 19th century-style of debate about the superior race versus the inferior race.”

Pure hysteria... so open and free discussion of any issue raised by or on behalf of any Aboriginal is always, in her eyes, a 19th century debate about the superior race versus the inferior race?

This is bordering on pure insanity..... just another chidlish way of trying to stifle discussion and open fact-finding.... how much is she pulling as deputy chair of this 'committee' to oversee this madness?

My god how the money rolls int when you are part of some populist insanity.... Roll Eyes

nah then - what about those starving Abo kids out there, Marcia?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Gnads

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #844 - Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 8:50am

mothra wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 8:20am:

Gnads wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 8:16am:

mothra wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 8:10am:

Gnads wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 8:08am:

mothra wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 7:51am:

Gnads wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 7:47am:

Karnal wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 4:06pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2023 at 3:26pm:

Here are Marcia Langton's own words:-

“If a decision is made without listening to the Voice it could be challenged in the High Court and potentially stopped from being implemented until the Voice has been heard. That's a possibility and why wouldn't we want that to be the case. If nothing that the Voice says is subject to the ordinary laws – in other words it's completely gutted and has no safe standing, if you like, then the government can ignore all of the Voice's decisions with impunity. And I think that's what Craven's aiming for, he's aiming for... you know.. a toothless tiger.”

Plenty of real meat there for discussion, children..... let's hear it by start of class tomorrow morning.

Oh?

Quote:

Marcia Langton warns of risk of ‘nasty, eugenicist’ debate about race ahead of voice referendum

“We have to take these matters seriously. This is too important to play nasty electoral politics about … it would be terribly unfortunate for all Australians if the debate sinks into a nasty, eugenicist, 19th century-style of debate about the superior race versus the inferior race.”

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/dec/05/indigenous-voice-to-parli...

What a load of BS.

No one is doing that.

Typical Langton - saying something controversial to distract from the issue....... you?

No-one is doing that? Have you read these threads?

Literally, they are over-laden with people doing precisely that. You too, if i'm not mistaken. At least you've defended it.

No-one is doing that my arse.

Rubbish. What Langton said is also rubbish.

Playing the race card because people don't agree with this "voice" is weak as piss.... & I know you are.

While i concede you may understand more than Crappler (and don't get too puffed up over that, it's not hard), you're still completely oblivious.

There is no "race card" being played because people aren't being agreed with. And this "race card" is not any sort of veto.

Really? Langton bringing in statements warning of eugenics & the superior man vs the inferior man hypothesis into the voice debate is doing exactly that... playing the race card.

And when she openly states that the "Voice" should have power to access the High Court over matters the Govt may not want to entertain she's saying that it will have a form of veto.....

all at taxpayers expense.

Firstly, that first comment was directed at you lot/ How does it fit?

Secondly, there is no form of veto. Finite. End.

What there is is an expectation that the Voice be "listened to" in regards to ATSI affairs.

How you lot begrudge this is utterly beyond me.

And what is beyond me is your failure to grasp the reality that they have Parliamentary representation & many many other Aboriginal lobby groups & organisations that "get listened to" now ...or should.

& that amending the constitution(something they are already part of as Australian citizens) based on race is a bad idea ... & it is a big deal.

One would ask that "if" this Voice got up .... would all that other representation be scrapped?

And how are Voice members to be selected?

And why should they be able to bypass the systems in place for every other Australian so they get an ear direct to Parliament based on their race?

As Jacinta Price said - not all Aboriginals are marginalised.

The voice idea is duplicitous & divisive.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Pedro Curevo

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #845 - Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 9:43am

Colonialisation right from the start with Capt. Cook under command to call Australia Terra Nullius, which was unlawful at the time as obviously there were people in Australia before white colonialist, immediately this placed Aboriginal people at a disadvantage creating intergenerational social issues from inequality and prejudice.....they didn't exist and came under flora and fauna depts.

It is now the responsibility of governments to right the wrongs and swing the pendulum in the Aboriginal people's favour to close the gap in equality.

Began with the right to vote in the 60's, Whitlam and native land rights, and Kevin Rudd's sorry, and when Turnbull funded a report into how to close the gap, the Aboriginal people concluded that a Voice to parliament and self-determination over their lives is the solution.

The voice has no effect on non-indigenous Australian lives, it does impact Aboriginal lives and self-determination over what effects them, such as miners abusing sacred sites, housing, health and education....the RW are running an ill minded fear campaign to protect the mining lobby that is against the Voice.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 83844 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum Reply #846 - Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 9:44am Well - it WAS lawful at the time... no need to go further.
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mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 35268 Gender:	Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum Reply #847 - Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 9:46am Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 9:44am: Well - it WAS lawful at the time... no need to go further. \\ There you have it, boys, girls and other.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #848 - Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 9:55am

Pedro Curevo wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 9:43am:

Colonialisation right from the start with Capt. Cook under command to call Australia Terra Nullius, which was unlawful at the time as obviously there were people in Australia before white colonialist, immediately this placed Aboriginal people at a disadvantage creating intergenerational social issues from inequality and prejudice.....they didn't exist and came under flora and fauna depts.

It is now the responsibility of governments to right the wrongs and swing the pendulum in the Aboriginal people's favour to close the gap in equality.

Began with the right to vote in the 60's, Whitlam and native land rights, and Kevin Rudd's sorry, and when Turnbull funded a report into how to close the gap, the Aboriginal people concluded that a Voice to parliament and self-determination over their lives is the solution.

The voice has no effect on non-indigenous Australian lives, it does impact Aboriginal lives and self-determination over what effects them, such as miners abusing sacred sites, housing, health and education....the RW are running an ill minded fear campaign to protect the mining lobby that is against the Voice.

How were they and are they at any greater disadvantage than they were pre-Civilisation?

Name the 'wrongs' and say how these are supposed to be set right, and then explain to us why current generations should bear the burden of the past. Everyone is equal in rights now....

How does the voice have no effect on all others when every single issue in society applies to all?

I've always opposed, as do so many Australians, abuse of genuine sacred sites etc, housing is under the direct control of Aboriginal councils, health is provided at huge cost everywhere including in the majority of free flights for treatment going to Aboriginals in the Outback, special clinics and such all at huge cost. They have educational opportunities.

They have the same right to self-determination within the same boundaries of civilised behaviour and law as everyone else. No person or group is Entitled™ to special privileges or special self-determination outside of the overall apparatus, and none is permitted under our democratic system to have a separate but equal governance = Apartheid and racism.

Thank you for coming... stick around - you might learn something.

You'd all be a lot better off paying a hell of a lot less to the likes of Langton and Calma etc and putting it where it really makes a difference.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Gnads

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #849 - Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 10:06am

Pedro Curevo wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 9:43am:

Colonialisation right from the start with Capt. Cook under command to call Australia Terra Nullius, which was unlawful at the time as obviously there were people in Australia before white colonialist, immediately this placed Aboriginal people at a disadvantage creating intergenerational social issues from inequality and prejudice.....they didn't exist and came under flora and fauna depts.

It is now the responsibility of governments to right the wrongs and swing the pendulum in the Aboriginal people's favour to close the gap in equality.

Began with the right to vote in the 60's, Whitlam and native land rights, and Kevin Rudd's sorry, and when Turnbull funded a report into how to close the gap, the Aboriginal people concluded that a Voice to parliament and self-determination over their lives is the solution.

The voice has no effect on non-indigenous Australian lives, it does impact Aboriginal lives and self-determination over what effects them, such as miners abusing sacred sites, housing, health and education....the RW are running an ill minded fear campaign to protect the mining lobby that is against the Voice.

Bullshyte - altering the constitution affects all Australians

and whether or not you're just naïve or stupid is up for debate.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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mothra

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #850 - Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 10:16am

Gnads wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 10:06am:

Pedro Curevo wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 9:43am:

Colonialisation right from the start with Capt. Cook under command to call Australia Terra Nullius, which was unlawful at the time as obviously there were people in Australia before white colonialist, immediately this placed Aboriginal people at a disadvantage creating intergenerational social issues from inequality and prejudice.....they didn't exist and came under flora and fauna depts.

It is now the responsibility of governments to right the wrongs and swing the pendulum in the Aboriginal people's favour to close the gap in equality.

Began with the right to vote in the 60's, Whitlam and native land rights, and Kevin Rudd's sorry, and when Turnbull funded a report into how to close the gap, the Aboriginal people concluded that a Voice to parliament and self-determination over their lives is the solution.

The voice has no effect on non-indigenous Australian lives, it does impact Aboriginal lives and self-determination over what effects them, such as miners abusing sacred sites, housing, health and education....the RW are running an ill minded fear campaign to protect the mining lobby that is against the Voice.

Bullshyte - altering the constitution affects all Australians

and whether or not you're just naïve or stupid is up for debate.

Of course it doesn't. Most Australians would likely never even notice.

Except they're all being frightened by you lot at Murdoch inc. and the shock jocks at Sky "News".

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Pedro Curevo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 500 Nth Coast NSW Gender:	Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum Reply #851 - Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 10:19am Gnads your all fear mongering with no substance other than one line statements...changing the constitution effects no one except the Aboriginal people.
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Lisa Jones

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #852 - Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 10:21am

Pedro Curevo wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 9:43am:

Colonialisation right from the start with Capt. Cook under command to call Australia Terra Nullius, which was unlawful at the time as obviously there were people in Australia before white colonialist, immediately this placed Aboriginal people at a disadvantage creating intergenerational social issues from inequality and prejudice.....they didn't exist and came under flora and fauna depts.

It is now the responsibility of governments to right the wrongs and swing the pendulum in the Aboriginal people's favour to close the gap in equality.

Began with the right to vote in the 60's, Whitlam and native land rights, and Kevin Rudd's sorry, and when Turnbull funded a report into how to close the gap, the Aboriginal people concluded that a Voice to parliament and self-determination over their lives is the solution.

The voice has no effect on non-indigenous Australian lives, it does impact Aboriginal lives and self-determination over what effects them, such as miners abusing sacred sites, housing, health and education....the RW are running an ill minded fear campaign to protect the mining lobby that is against the Voice.

Not you again “Pedro”. You never finished school. And it shows. Irrespective of the fake id you drop by with.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum Reply #853 - Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 10:23am Pedro Curevo wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 10:19am: Gnads your all fear mongering with no substance other than one line statements...changing the constitution effects no one except the Aboriginal people. 👆 No education .... no idea.
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Gnads

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #854 - Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 10:35am

mothra wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 10:16am:

Gnads wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 10:06am:

Pedro Curevo wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2023 at 9:43am:

Colonialisation right from the start with Capt. Cook under command to call Australia Terra Nullius, which was unlawful at the time as obviously there were people in Australia before white colonialist, immediately this placed Aboriginal people at a disadvantage creating intergenerational social issues from inequality and prejudice.....they didn't exist and came under flora and fauna depts.

It is now the responsibility of governments to right the wrongs and swing the pendulum in the Aboriginal people's favour to close the gap in equality.

Began with the right to vote in the 60's, Whitlam and native land rights, and Kevin Rudd's sorry, and when Turnbull funded a report into how to close the gap, the Aboriginal people concluded that a Voice to parliament and self-determination over their lives is the solution.

The voice has no effect on non-indigenous Australian lives, it does impact Aboriginal lives and self-determination over what effects them, such as miners abusing sacred sites, housing, health and education....the RW are running an ill minded fear campaign to protect the mining lobby that is against the Voice.

Bullshyte - altering the constitution affects all Australians

and whether or not you're just naïve or stupid is up for debate.

Of course it doesn't. Most Australians would likely never even notice.

Except they're all being frightened by you lot at Murdoch inc. and the shock jocks at Sky "News".

Relying on complacency & the old "she's right I'm alright Jack"?

Well it ain't happening Jack

You still can't answer the relevant questions.

Downplay it all you want ... it's still is a big deal.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Poll
Question: Will the referendum be voted in?
* This poll has now closed *
No 42 (75.0%) Yes 14 (25.0%) Total votes: 56 « Last Modified by: Redmond Neck on: Feb 25^th, 2023 at 11:17am »