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Poll Poll
Question: Will there be a conviction?

Yes    
  3 (14.3%)
No    
  17 (81.0%)
Not sure    
  1 (4.8%)




Total votes: 21
« Created by: Lisa Jones on: Oct 22nd, 2022 at 7:49am »

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Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins (Read 36696 times)
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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #390 - Oct 24th, 2022 at 7:50pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 24th, 2022 at 7:38pm:
Aussie wrote on Oct 24th, 2022 at 7:34pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 24th, 2022 at 7:13pm:
Jarryd Hayne case... but of course we are being premature about any appeal being needed:-

"The jury was given legal directions that were “flawed in almost every possible way”, Game said.

He also succeeded in convincing the appeal court it was an error to overrule a verdict from the first trial in relation to evidence he said explained the complainant’s “abiding interest in having sex with Jarryd Hayne”.

Another two appeal grounds – including that the jury’s verdict was unreasonable – were dismissed."


So the court considers more than just the directions to the jury... maybe in Deep North Queensland the M.1 Garand has two latch pins, but in the US Marines and Army they did not.


You cited three 'grounds.'

The first two were errors by a Judge, allowed.....the last.....error by Jury, dismissed.

Do you not read your own 'links?'



The last - thank you for putting your head in the noose - was dismissed - meaning that the judge(s) looked at the interpretation of the evidence given to the jury......

You carried on as if the only reason an appeal would get up is if the judge misdirected the jury... I said not so, they also look at the evidence.

Do you know what you are saying half the time these days, Aussie?

In the case of Lehrmann, he will have many MORE grounds for appeal, not least the thinness of the prosecution case and the lack of any substantive evidence.... compared to Hayne, where there was at least blood and no argument that some form of sexual activity had taken place.


List them.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #391 - Oct 24th, 2022 at 8:12pm
 
Consistent evidence.....

"Yes, I kept the dress, Monica style, for six weeks ... but then for some unknown reason decided to wash it...."

"Is this the dress in this photograph?"

"Yes."

"Do you recall when this photograph was taken?"

"No."

"Was it clean and washed at the time of this photograph?"

"Yes."

"It was two weeks after this alleged event.... at a ministerial function.  Do you recall now?"

"Uhh... yes..."

"So you washed that dress... meaning there was no reason to hold onto it in its then state, am I correct?"


Aussie, Aussie - you should never set out to hang a man on an assumption that turns out to be false that the complainant gave consistent sworn evidence....... and papering that over with an assertion that she was consistent will not wash.

We get that you miss the courts and the game playing, being disbarred and all, but seriously....

My apologies.
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« Last Edit: Oct 25th, 2022 at 1:02am by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #392 - Oct 24th, 2022 at 8:23pm
 
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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #393 - Oct 24th, 2022 at 8:23pm
 
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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #394 - Oct 24th, 2022 at 8:24pm
 
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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #395 - Oct 24th, 2022 at 8:25pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 24th, 2022 at 8:12pm:
Consistent evidence.....

"Yes, I kept the dress, Monica style, for six weeks ... but then for some unknown reason decided to wash it...."

"Is this the dress in this photograph?"

"Yes."

"Do you recall when this photograph was taken?"

"No."

"Was it clean and washed at the time of this photograph?"

"Yes."

"It was two weeks after this alleged event.... at a ministerial function.  Do you recall now?"

"Uhh... yes..."

"So you washed that dress... meaning there was no reason to hold onto it in its then state, am I correct?"


Aussie, Aussie - you should never set out to hang a man on an assumption that turns out to be false that the complainant gave consistent sworn evidence....... and papering that over with an assertion that she was consistent will not wash.

We get that you miss the courts and the game playing, being disbarred and all, but seriously....


I have no idea where you get that bullshit from Grappler......but you are quite wrong.  Explain yourself.
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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #396 - Oct 24th, 2022 at 8:35pm
 
Grappler....??????

Come on.  Where the fuq did you get that outrageous and false allegation from?
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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #397 - Oct 24th, 2022 at 9:23pm
 
I rest my case - clearly you have not been following this case from the outset....

That's what went through.... the six weeks (damn - six MONTHS) kept due to trauma dress was washed and worn two weeks after the event at a ministerial function.... that's how it was....

...
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« Last Edit: Oct 24th, 2022 at 10:03pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #398 - Oct 24th, 2022 at 9:30pm
 
Aussie wrote on Oct 24th, 2022 at 5:39pm:
Frank wrote on Oct 24th, 2022 at 5:36pm:
If convicted, he'll appeal and will be acquitted on appeal.
If acquitted young morons will start gluing themselves to things and thrown stuff on stuff.






Unless the Trial Judge has made a mistake in her instructions to the Jury, while I have no doubt he will appeal if convicted, his appeal will fail.

This is nothing like the Pell scanario.

There is no evidence for conviction  'beyond reasonable doubt'.

If the jury convicts the appeal will be about that.  There is no evidence.  An appeal court will need to assess evidence for 'beyond reasonable doubt'.
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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #399 - Oct 24th, 2022 at 9:48pm
 
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/oct/06/brittany-higgins-kept-dre...



The court was shown photos of the white dress Higgins was wearing during a night of heavy drinking and an early morning visit to Parliament House with Lehrmann, who the court has heard said he had needed to pick up documents.

Higgins was asked what she had done with the dress after the alleged rape. She told the court she had kept it in a plastic bag, unwashed and untouched, for six months.

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“I wasn’t sure because of all the party political stuff how I could proceed or whether I could proceed without losing my job,” she said. “So I kept it there. It was like this weird anchor for me.”

She has since washed it in what she described as a symbolic act, and wore it only once more and never again, the court heard.

But, under cross-examination, Higgins was forced to concede she was mistaken in her evidence about the length of time the dress sat under her bed.

Steven Whybrow, counsel for Lehrmann, showed the court a photo of Higgins wearing the dress the month following the alleged rape, at a pre-birthday event for Reynolds in Perth.

“It stayed under my bed for a period of time, I was wrong in saying it was six months,” Higgins said."
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #400 - Oct 24th, 2022 at 9:50pm
 
That do ya?  Six MONTHS - not six weeks - was the statement which was instantly disproven....

Consistent you say?
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #401 - Oct 24th, 2022 at 10:02pm
 
Aussie wrote on Oct 24th, 2022 at 8:35pm:
Grappler....??????

Come on.  Where the fuq did you get that outrageous and false allegation from?


Sounds like I've hurt you, Aussie - I apologise.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #402 - Oct 25th, 2022 at 1:01am
 
Aussie wrote on Oct 24th, 2022 at 8:25pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 24th, 2022 at 8:12pm:
Consistent evidence.....

"Yes, I kept the dress, Monica style, for six weeks ... but then for some unknown reason decided to wash it...."

"Is this the dress in this photograph?"

"Yes."

"Do you recall when this photograph was taken?"

"No."

"Was it clean and washed at the time of this photograph?"

"Yes."

"It was two weeks after this alleged event.... at a ministerial function.  Do you recall now?"

"Uhh... yes..."

"So you washed that dress... meaning there was no reason to hold onto it in its then state, am I correct?"


Aussie, Aussie - you should never set out to hang a man on an assumption that turns out to be false that the complainant gave consistent sworn evidence....... and papering that over with an assertion that she was consistent will not wash.

We get that you miss the courts and the game playing,  but seriously....


I have no idea where you get that bullshit from Grappler......but you are quite wrong.  Explain yourself.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #403 - Oct 25th, 2022 at 5:28am
 
AusGeoff wrote on Oct 23rd, 2022 at 8:04pm:
mothra wrote on Oct 23rd, 2022 at 5:35am:
AusGeoff wrote on Oct 22nd, 2022 at 9:21pm:
...Not being present at the trial makes it difficult to comment knowledgeably,
but my optimistic guess would be that Lehrmann will be acquitted, with no
case to answer.

BTW, anybody who accepts any sworn testimony as being an authentic record
of the facts it purports to represent is, to say the least, naive.

Why were her clothes off, Geoff? Why was she there, naked and alone?


The fact that she was naked, or the fact that she was alone is in
no way circumstantial evidence that she was raped.  She may
have just taken a shower in Reynold's suite, and collapsed on
the couch still suffering from her drunkenness.

You're acting like a Lisa Wilkinson clone Mothra, and also sounding
like a judge, jury and executioner who've already convicted Lehrmann.




Geoff, quite frankly, you're being hysterical. And it's a little alarming.

There is simply no talking to you if you don't calm your farm. I've at no point even begun to speculate on anyone's guilt or innocence in this case. I've simply asked a few questions to what i've considered utterly ridiculous comments.

For instance, the fact that Higgins woke was woken, naked and alone in a ministerial office is indeed circumstantial evidence. I don't think you understand what circumstantial evidence actually is if you claim it's not. But then again, you thought she may have just fancied a shower.

Circumstantial evidence is "evidence" that may sway a decision but is not in itself evidence of the fact. As in, it may cause a jury to decide a certain way but it's not in itself a smoking gun.


As to the accusation that i am acting like a "Lisa Wilkinson clone" i mean, get your hand off it. I've seen the disgusting, sexist and reactionary terms you've used to describe her in this thread. All for reporting on a piece that disclosed NO names and simply told one woman's story.

A story you seem quite unnervingly determined to discredit in the most base ways available to you.

And then you have the nerve to accuse me of being "judge, jury and executioner"? For asking a few questions?

What questions have you been asking, Geoff? Over the allegation a woman was raped.

Tell me again Geoff ... what was Brittany wearing? What time was it? How much had she been drinking? Is she a reliable witness?

We women have heard it all before. For a very, very, very long time.

And look, for even questioning you, i'm relegated to Lisa Wilkinson's adjectives.
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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.
 
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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #404 - Oct 25th, 2022 at 5:54am
 
Aussie i mean this with your best interests at heart ... there is no point. Nada. Zilch.

He not only does not read what you type for the most part, what parts he reads he does not understand.

Never have i encountered a more densely lead-lined bucket than Grappler.

He will of course accord himself the "win". Bless. And gloat unattractively some. Preen, if i may .. as a pigeon would. But there is no point.
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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.
 
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