Australian Politics Forum - Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins

aquascoot

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #420 - Oct 25^th, 2022 at 6:21pm

mothra wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 7:57am:

Belgarion wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 6:30am:

To sum up, on the balance of probability Higgins and Lehrmann had sex in the Ministers office. It's uncertain if this was consensual or not. Given the behaviour of everyone involved there is no proof of rape that is beyond reasonable doubt.

How could she give consent if she was so inebriated she couldn't remember?

i would imagine many girls and boys are drunk when they have sex.
is this 'rape'

rape to me , brings up images of a guy in a ski mask who holds a knife to someones throat and brutalises her, possibly with lifelong consequences for the victim.
such a guy deserves 25 years in prison.

a guy and a gal who are pissed and have sex and then she says she never gave valid consent, should probably be called something else.

the penalty should probably be 200 hours of community service maybe
and the guy shouldnt be put on a sex offenders register for life.
let the punishment fit the crime.

she was somewhat responsible for what happened
he was an opportunist

if she was 17, its more reprehensible.

if she was hooking up with guys on a regular basis thru tinder, its less so.

we need some nuamce in these situations because drunk sex is not going to go away

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aquascoot

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #421 - Oct 25^th, 2022 at 6:22pm

mothra wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 7:57am:

Belgarion wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 6:30am:

To sum up, on the balance of probability Higgins and Lehrmann had sex in the Ministers office. It's uncertain if this was consensual or not. Given the behaviour of everyone involved there is no proof of rape that is beyond reasonable doubt.

How could she give consent if she was so inebriated she couldn't remember?

i would imagine many girls and boys are drunk when they have sex.
is this 'rape'

rape to me , brings up images of a guy in a ski mask who holds a knife to someones throat and brutalises her, possibly with lifelong consequences for the victim.
such a guy deserves 25 years in prison.

a guy and a gal who are pissed and have sex and then she says she never gave valid consent, should probably be called something else.

the penalty should probably be 200 hours of community service maybe
and the guy shouldnt be put on a sex offenders register for life.
let the punishment fit the crime.

she was somewhat responsible for what happened
he was an opportunist

if she was 17, its more reprehensible.

if she was hooking up with guys on a regular basis thru tinder, its less so.

we need some nuance in these situations because drunk sex is not going to go away

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74173 Gender:	Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins Reply #422 - Oct 25^th, 2022 at 6:22pm Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 24^th, 2022 at 8:12pm: We get that you miss the courts and the game playing, being disbarred and all, but seriously.... My apologies. you'd do well not to listen to the crap the sewer rats tell you.
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John Smith

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #423 - Oct 25^th, 2022 at 6:25pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 10:26am:

mothra wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 8:06am:

Frank wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 8:04am:

mothra wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 7:57am:

Belgarion wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 6:30am:

To sum up, on the balance of probability Higgins and Lehrmann had sex in the Ministers office. It's uncertain if this was consensual or not. Given the behaviour of everyone involved there is no proof of rape that is beyond reasonable doubt.

How could she give consent if she was so inebriated she couldn't remember?

Two different thing. She may have consented but doesn't remember now.

If she was so inebriated that she cannot remember giving consent, in the eyes of the law, she did not give consent.

This really bugs you guys, huh.

You raving again? Please explain?

Explain what? One cannot consent if they aren't of sound mind. Being so drunk you dont remember means you're not of sound mind. It's the law.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Aussie

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #424 - Oct 25^th, 2022 at 6:28pm

Frank wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 6:15pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 4:06pm:

In tells ya.....you cannot give three/four entirely different explanations for being right at the scene of an alleged crime and right at the time it is alleged to have occurred and expect to be believed by all of 12 people who are deciding on your credibility.

I went to my office to have a nightcap.
And to collect my keys.
And to look over some notes while there for tomorrow.

GUILTY!!!!!!

And 'tomorrow' was a Saturday, not a Sitting Day.....and....he takes a pissed female with him....and leaves her there after leaving 'hurriedly.'

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Aussie

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #425 - Oct 25^th, 2022 at 6:31pm

aquascoot wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 6:21pm:

mothra wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 7:57am:

Belgarion wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 6:30am:

To sum up, on the balance of probability Higgins and Lehrmann had sex in the Ministers office. It's uncertain if this was consensual or not. Given the behaviour of everyone involved there is no proof of rape that is beyond reasonable doubt.

How could she give consent if she was so inebriated she couldn't remember?

i would imagine many girls and boys are drunk when they have sex.
is this 'rape'

rape to me , brings up images of a guy in a ski mask who holds a knife to someones throat and brutalises her, possibly with lifelong consequences for the victim.
such a guy deserves 25 years in prison.

a guy and a gal who are pissed and have sex and then she says she never gave valid consent, should probably be called something else.

the penalty should probably be 200 hours of community service maybe
and the guy shouldnt be put on a sex offenders register for life.
let the punishment fit the crime.

she was somewhat responsible for what happened
he was an opportunist

if she was 17, its more reprehensible.

if she was hooking up with guys on a regular basis thru tinder, its less so.

we need some nuamce in these situations because drunk sex is not going to go away

The Judge can take all that into account in sentencing.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #426 - Oct 25^th, 2022 at 6:34pm

aquascoot wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 6:22pm:

mothra wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 7:57am:

Belgarion wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 6:30am:

To sum up, on the balance of probability Higgins and Lehrmann had sex in the Ministers office. It's uncertain if this was consensual or not. Given the behaviour of everyone involved there is no proof of rape that is beyond reasonable doubt.

How could she give consent if she was so inebriated she couldn't remember?

i would imagine many girls and boys are drunk when they have sex.
is this 'rape'

rape to me , brings up images of a guy in a ski mask who holds a knife to someones throat and brutalises her, possibly with lifelong consequences for the victim.
such a guy deserves 25 years in prison.

a guy and a gal who are pissed and have sex and then she says she never gave valid consent, should probably be called something else.

the penalty should probably be 200 hours of community service maybe
and the guy shouldnt be put on a sex offenders register for life.
let the punishment fit the crime.

she was somewhat responsible for what happened
he was an opportunist

if she was 17, its more reprehensible.

if she was hooking up with guys on a regular basis thru tinder, its less so.

we need some nuance in these situations because drunk sex is not going to go away

Only 25 years? You softie..... I'm a softie and I say life without......

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #427 - Oct 25^th, 2022 at 6:41pm

Aussie wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 4:06pm:

In tells ya.....you cannot give three/four entirely different explanations for being right at the scene of an alleged crime and right at the time it is alleged to have occurred and expect to be believed by all of 12 people who are deciding on your credibility.

Nor can you say you kept the dress unwashed in a bag for six months and be caught on camera wearing it clean as a whistle a couple of weeks later, and waver between making a formal complaint and not, and saying you went to doctors when you did not...

This is, if anything, worse on the part of the accuser who bears the burden of proving a case...

There is no case here, Aussie.... there are bastards in it.... I don't see Higgins as an opportunist, but there is too much doubt and no hard evidence.

Hung jury, I tellz yez... they can re-try it if they want, but for the same result.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #428 - Oct 25^th, 2022 at 6:45pm

John Smith wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 6:25pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 10:26am:

mothra wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 8:06am:

Frank wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 8:04am:

mothra wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 7:57am:

Belgarion wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 6:30am:

To sum up, on the balance of probability Higgins and Lehrmann had sex in the Ministers office. It's uncertain if this was consensual or not. Given the behaviour of everyone involved there is no proof of rape that is beyond reasonable doubt.

How could she give consent if she was so inebriated she couldn't remember?

Two different thing. She may have consented but doesn't remember now.

If she was so inebriated that she cannot remember giving consent, in the eyes of the law, she did not give consent.

This really bugs you guys, huh.

You raving again? Please explain?

Explain what? One cannot consent if they aren't of sound mind. Being so drunk you dont remember means you're not of sound mind. It's the law.

As I made clear from Day One - under ACT law which governs legal issued inside PH that are not directly covered by Federal law - if any of you bothered to check - an inebriated woman cannot give consent......

WTF is the matter with you people? You have next to no idea what you are talking about, and you descend instantly into personal unwarranted abuse...

Why do so many of you repeat what I said long ago and still say while trying to put down what I say?

Is it simple insanity or simple stupidity on your parts?

And once again - if you are so drunk that you can't remember - why - long after the event - is the memory sharp and clear unlike the initial statement, and indeed, how do you remember correctly at all?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74173 Gender:	Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins Reply #429 - Oct 25^th, 2022 at 6:49pm You really are a moron you know that. Byou asked a question, I answered. Where was my abuse? You're so damned busy trying to show what a victim you are that you don't even understand what's written in front of you
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Aussie

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #430 - Oct 25^th, 2022 at 6:53pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 6:41pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 4:06pm:

In tells ya.....you cannot give three/four entirely different explanations for being right at the scene of an alleged crime and right at the time it is alleged to have occurred and expect to be believed by all of 12 people who are deciding on your credibility.

Nor can you say you kept the dress unwashed in a bag for six months and be caught on camera wearing it clean as a whistle a couple of weeks later, and waver between making a formal complaint and not, and saying you went to doctors when you did not...

This is, if anything, worse on the part of the accuser who bears the burden of proving a case...

There is no case here, Aussie.... there are bastards in it.... I don't see Higgins as an opportunist, but there is too much doubt and no hard evidence.

Hung jury, I tellz yez... they can re-try it if they want, but for the same result.

So...she fuqqed up on the dress and she was confronted with that in Court, on oath ~ something she did, something he did not do.

She explained it as best she could. She was wrong about the dress. She made a mistake. Naughty her, ey? So that makes EVERYTHING else she said a lie, a deliberate falsehood, a contrivance? No way.

That is a different Planet from telling three/four lies about why an accused was at the scene of an alleged crime.

Now Grappler, you and I have unfinished business on a personal level. You accused me of being disbarred, and if you did that in the real world, two things would happen...I would deck you. If you got up, I would then sue the arse out of you and take every cent you had.

Sure, you have apologised. Cheap and easy.

As I have said, the depth of the sincerity of that apology will be demonstrated by your being candid.

Why did you make that outrageous AND FALSE allegation that I had been disbarred?

Full disclosure Grappler, or you and I are finished.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #431 - Oct 25^th, 2022 at 6:55pm

Aussie wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 6:28pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 6:15pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 4:06pm:

In tells ya.....you cannot give three/four entirely different explanations for being right at the scene of an alleged crime and right at the time it is alleged to have occurred and expect to be believed by all of 12 people who are deciding on your credibility.

I went to my office to have a nightcap.
And to collect my keys.
And to look over some notes while there for tomorrow.

GUILTY!!!!!!

And 'tomorrow' was a Saturday, not a Sitting Day.....and....he takes a pissed female with him....and leaves her there after leaving 'hurriedly.'

None of which proves sexual activity took place.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Frank

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #432 - Oct 25^th, 2022 at 9:48pm

Aussie wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 6:28pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 6:15pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 25^th, 2022 at 4:06pm:

In tells ya.....you cannot give three/four entirely different explanations for being right at the scene of an alleged crime and right at the time it is alleged to have occurred and expect to be believed by all of 12 people who are deciding on your credibility.

I went to my office to have a nightcap.
And to collect my keys.
And to look over some notes while there for tomorrow.

GUILTY!!!!!!

And 'tomorrow' was a Saturday, not a Sitting Day.....and....he takes a pissed female with him....and leaves her there after leaving 'hurriedly.'

That's it??

Takes and hurriedly???? (she wasn't taken and he wasnt hurried).

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Captain Nemo

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #433 - Oct 25^th, 2022 at 11:10pm

**SNIP***

As I made clear from Day One - under ACT law which governs legal issued inside PH that are not directly covered by Federal law - if any of you bothered to check - an inebriated woman cannot give consent......

**Snip***

The argument from the defence is that no sexual activity took place at all.

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The 2025 election could be a shocker.

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 135998 Gender:	Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins Reply #434 - Oct 26^th, 2022 at 9:42am Fat, white, old men still defending alleged rapists rather than taking the word of the woman. The woman is always lying, and the man is always the victim. Would it be the same if it was their daughter?
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Question: Will there be a conviction?
Yes 3 (14.3%) No 17 (81.0%) Not sure 1 (4.8%) Total votes: 21 « Created by: Lisa Jones on: Oct 22^nd, 2022 at 7:49am »