Australian Politics Forum - Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins

Aussie

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #510 - Oct 26^th, 2022 at 9:29pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 26^th, 2022 at 8:44pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 26^th, 2022 at 6:05pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 26^th, 2022 at 5:25pm:

Anyway, Aussie - your idea is moot because you have no way of knowing for certain that
Britanny's purse was burgled... if you are the police, you can only investigate....

You presume way too much .... obviously you want this guy to be guilty.

If I can believe Higgins over Lehrmann, and I do, her purse was burgled by Lehrmann. She says it was under oath, he made NO denial under oath.

He also gave three/four entirely different reasons why his hand was in or anywhere near the her purse.

But in this case, the money was still there... and there was no substantial corroborating evidence to suggest it was not.

He doesn't have to make any denials under oath..... that is his Right.

I told you hung jury weeks ago.... now you agree, but argue the leg off a table.

Ferfuxsake, do you ever listen to anybody!!!

Of course he does not have to make denials. But, when it comes down to then evaluating who I am going to believe, I will take the person who swore to events under oath and was cross-examined against the person who gibbered three/four different versions NOT under oath and was never tested in cross-examination.

Can you get that into your thick head?

Sure, some days ago you 'predicted' a hung Jury. That was the easy option, the way not to come clean with a decision one way or the other, yourself.

If you were on the Jury, how would you explain away his three/four totally different reasons for being taking an inebriated subordinate to Parliament House?

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #511 - Oct 26^th, 2022 at 10:00pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 26^th, 2022 at 8:49pm:

A retrial for sure. This case has become too much in the public interest for the ACT DPP to walk away from.

As I said - the policy is now that rape accusations will be put to a court and a jury.... this is to placate the baying packs at the gates who cry about the victim and have no real regard for Law and the way it is supposed to work.

The hope is that if a few more convictions can be secured via prejudice and emotion etc... that will make the powers-that-be look better....

Sadly that can never be said for those defendants who may be caught up in this run around the proper handling of Law, and who may be caught up in what is a 21st Century witch hunt.

ANY and EVERY time a government or government body does an end run around Law to 'try to make convictions easier' (gasps) or 'to make it easier to get convictions' (gasps) ... there will end up being countless innocent victims on all sides.... not just one... and this steady erosion of legal rights is one of those things that you need to start to say NO to..... if you continue to let this sort of thing through the gate... your aquascoot paddock will soon be nothing but a pile of barren soil....

12% of persons jailed for rape in the US State of Virginia, often for lengthy terms, were exonerated ....... it is pretty safe to say that such a thing could be the norm here... especially when people accept uncorroborated verbal evidence in place of primary evidence supported by substantial corroborating evidence.....

When you allow the rules of law to be broken down to suit an emotion-driven cause and agenda, you betray every citizen in this country.....

Ne Passerons!!

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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AusGeoff

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #512 - Oct 27^th, 2022 at 3:48am

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 26^th, 2022 at 9:42am:

Fat, white, old men still defending alleged rapists rather than taking the word of the woman.

The woman is always lying, and the man is always the victim.

Would it be the same if it was their daughter?

According to a Victoria Police report, studies estimate 5% of
rape allegations are false.
[meta-analysis of seven studies in Western countries: Ferguson & Malouff, 2016].

Question: Could Higgins be one of those 1 in 20 women who lie?

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #513 - Oct 27^th, 2022 at 4:19am

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 27^th, 2022 at 3:48am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 26^th, 2022 at 9:42am:

Fat, white, old men still defending alleged rapists rather than taking the word of the woman.

The woman is always lying, and the man is always the victim.

Would it be the same if it was their daughter?

According to a Victoria Police report, studies estimate 5% of
rape allegations are false.
[meta-analysis of seven studies in Western countries: Ferguson & Malouff, 2016].

Question: Could Higgins be one of those 1 in 20 women who lie?

It could be an example of an honest error - assuming that he had done the deed and her ghost memories said so. It doesn't necessarily mean she is lying - BUT (there's always a but) - IF the concepts that 'a woman never lies' and 'guilt by accusation come into play FULLY - it will become a simple thing for a vengeful, drunk, deranged etc woman to get any man hung.

In light of recent events in Macca Street and a few other places (Cambra etc) ... you could nearly hold your breath waiting for such insanity to be visited on the struggling people of Australia.

MAYBE that's what this is all about really...... set up a hue and cry - loose the dogs - get the mad crowds baying for blood.... then when the guy walks it'll be screams of 'technicality' * and 'victim twice' and so forth...... and the government will be 'forced' to move to prevent such nasty things happening.

They're gonna need bigger gulags....

* as the judge who freed 'Hurricane' Carter said - "Yes - that technicality is the United State
Constitution." Clearly our current political mob has no concept of the basics of an orderly, democratic, equal, civilised society based on rules for all and genuine equal treatment - but only on of their own ability to impose.

I TOLD YOU SO!

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #514 - Oct 27^th, 2022 at 4:21am

Watching these scumk in cntrol of this country at this time......

(repeats) ...

How would it be if it were your son? Still the same? If your son came to you and said, "Dad - I've just been accused of raping a girl I went back to the office with, to get some papers/keys. You know I live with my gf. She flaked on the Minister's couch dead drunk and I decided to just leave her to it and go home. I didn't do it!"..... what would you do???

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #515 - Oct 27^th, 2022 at 4:27am

Aussie wrote on Oct 26^th, 2022 at 9:29pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 26^th, 2022 at 8:44pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 26^th, 2022 at 6:05pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 26^th, 2022 at 5:25pm:

Anyway, Aussie - your idea is moot because you have no way of knowing for certain that
Britanny's purse was burgled... if you are the police, you can only investigate....

You presume way too much .... obviously you want this guy to be guilty.

If I can believe Higgins over Lehrmann, and I do, her purse was burgled by Lehrmann. She says it was under oath, he made NO denial under oath.

He also gave three/four entirely different reasons why his hand was in or anywhere near the her purse.

But in this case, the money was still there... and there was no substantial corroborating evidence to suggest it was not.

He doesn't have to make any denials under oath..... that is his Right.

I told you hung jury weeks ago.... now you agree, but argue the leg off a table.

Ferfuxsake, do you ever listen to anybody!!!

Of course he does not have to make denials. But, when it comes down to then evaluating who I am going to believe, I will take the person who swore to events under oath and was cross-examined against the person who gibbered three/four different versions NOT under oath and was never tested in cross-examination.

Can you get that into your thick head?

Sure, some days ago you 'predicted' a hung Jury. That was the easy option, the way not to come clean with a decision one way or the other, yourself.

If you were on the Jury, how would you explain away his three/four totally different reasons for being taking an inebriated subordinate to Parliament House?

Then why do you persist in finding guilt in a case where the evidence does not stack up? Why do you persist in finding guilt on the basis of his not offering sworn testimony to refute the allegation when he doesn't have to and no inference is to be drawn?

Only he knows for what reason he went to the office and why he told several different versions.... I don't have to justify it or explain it...... if I were on the jury, I'd have to say he was being confronted over - at the least - a security breach (again why did the guards not know this at the time?), for which he could lose his job.... he was in the Higgins position of feeling that job was under threat - and a very real threat it turned out to be .... so he struggled..... THE SAME AS SHE DID OVER THE DRESS AND SO FORTH AND NOT LEAST THE WAY SHE WENT ABOUT THE WHOLE THING.

Clearly you are not a person who should ever be on a jury.

So now a solid prediction of a hung jury is weaseling out - but when you say it, it's 100% kosher?

You are losing it, Aussie.

Potential juror no 69 is dismissed.......... NEXT ....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38509 Gender:	Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins Reply #516 - Oct 27^th, 2022 at 9:18am Someone has been naughty! No hung Jury.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #517 - Oct 27^th, 2022 at 9:27am

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 27^th, 2022 at 3:48am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 26^th, 2022 at 9:42am:

Fat, white, old men still defending alleged rapists rather than taking the word of the woman.

The woman is always lying, and the man is always the victim.

Would it be the same if it was their daughter?

According to a Victoria Police report, studies estimate 5% of
rape allegations are false.
[meta-analysis of seven studies in Western countries: Ferguson & Malouff, 2016].

Question: Could Higgins be one of those 1 in 20 women who lie?

Absolutely she could.

And he could be lying too.

I don't know who's telling the truth in this case.

The thing is though, I don't automatically take sides - others on here unfortunately do, and it's always the side of the man.

I find that a little disturbing.

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Aussie

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #518 - Oct 27^th, 2022 at 9:27am

Aussie wrote on Oct 27^th, 2022 at 9:18am:

Someone has been naughty! No hung Jury.

Grappler, have you been sending the Jury crap?

Quote:

The court heard the material was discovered in a routine tidying and that the paper related to the prevalence of false rape accusations.

Round two starts Feb 20, 2023.

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« Last Edit: Oct 27^th, 2022 at 10:20am by Aussie »

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Captain Nemo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9783 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins Reply #519 - Oct 27^th, 2022 at 9:43am I dare say that it is darned near impossible to find an untainted jury for the retrial given the level of public debate over this case.
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 135981 Gender:	Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins Reply #520 - Oct 27^th, 2022 at 9:44am "I would expect that, after reporting the outcome of the trial today, that reporting of this matter should fall silent, so that the accused should have a fair trial, and so that Ms Higgins should have some respite from the intense glare of the media that has been pervasive throughout this trial."
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Bobby.

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #521 - Oct 27^th, 2022 at 9:52am

Aussie wrote on Oct 27^th, 2022 at 9:27am:

Aussie wrote on Oct 27^th, 2022 at 9:18am:

Someone has been naughty! No hung Jury.

Grappler, have you been sending the Jury crap?

Quote:

The court heard the material was discovered in a routine tidying and that the paper related to the prevalence of false rape accusations.

Round two starts Feb 23, 2023.

What a feast for all the lawyers?
A retrial so they get double paid -
maybe they could even go for a 3rd trial -
then an appeal -
then a high court challenge -
all over an alleged root.

I can almost hear the cash registers ringing. Grin

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-27/jury-discharged-in-trial-of-bruce-lehrman...

Jury discharged in trial of Bruce Lehrmann,
who was accused of raping Brittany Higgins

By Elizabeth Byrne and Markus Mannheim
Posted 41m ago
41 minutes ago
, updated 4m ago

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Aussie

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #522 - Oct 27^th, 2022 at 9:52am

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 27^th, 2022 at 9:44am:

"I would expect that, after reporting the outcome of the trial today, that reporting of this matter should fall silent, so that the accused should have a fair trial, and so that Ms Higgins should have some respite from the intense glare of the media that has been pervasive throughout this trial."

I assume the Judge said that and I agree with one exception.

There should be a full examination about that juror's conduct, including to find out if there was any outside assistance. I also reckon jurors who act corruptly in this way ought be penalised with paying the costs of the abandoned Trial, AND pay damages to the 'victim' and accused, who now have to go through it all again.....Lehrmann having to double up on fees. He now has to pay his Lawyers exactly the same as he has just paid them....or maybe he is legally aided and it is the taxpayer who is paying twice because a "Grappler" was on the Jury.

I wonder if Lehrmann realises after this that NOT getting in the box to give sworn evidence and be cross examined was a mistake.

Maybe he knows that it will be a BIGGER mistake to get in the box, ey?

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #523 - Oct 27^th, 2022 at 9:55am

Aussie wrote on Oct 27^th, 2022 at 9:52am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 27^th, 2022 at 9:44am:

"I would expect that, after reporting the outcome of the trial today, that reporting of this matter should fall silent, so that the accused should have a fair trial, and so that Ms Higgins should have some respite from the intense glare of the media that has been pervasive throughout this trial."

I assume the Judge said that ...

Chief Justice McCallum. Yes.

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 44085 Gender:	Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins Reply #524 - Oct 27^th, 2022 at 10:04am Jury in rape trial of Bruce Lehrmann discharged after trial is aborted over juror misconductlp
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Poll
Question: Will there be a conviction?
Yes 3 (14.3%) No 17 (81.0%) Not sure 1 (4.8%) Total votes: 21 « Created by: Lisa Jones on: Oct 22^nd, 2022 at 7:49am »