Australian Politics Forum - Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins

Frank

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #840 - Oct 30^th, 2022 at 5:57pm

Aussie wrote on Oct 30^th, 2022 at 5:15pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 30^th, 2022 at 4:21pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 30^th, 2022 at 10:39am:

If Higgins was lying.......why would she not continue to assert that he removed her knickers?

So saying several wrong things prior to the trial is OK if she corrects those on the stand under obligation to tell the truth?

That really helps considering that had those things not been incorrectly stated beforehand, there might never have been a costly trial to go nowhere, and the name of the accused might not have been so pilloried in the media and the public eye.

You don't consider those important?

Being as thick as ten bricks as you are, I'm not surprised you did not get it.

I'll try again. She could have easily continued with the line..."He took off my knickers," or "I was wearing knickers."

..........If she was lying........

Nah, she told the truth under oath even though that brought (a) embarrassment and (b) it contradicted that throw away 'yeah' she uttered in the chit chat with Wilkinson.

Yes, Lehrmann did not have to give evidence as you say.....but he elected not to, he CHOSE not to quite deliberately after a very carefully crafted conversation he would have had with his Defence Team who would have gone to great lengths to thoroughly explain his options, and who would have had him sign a written acknowledgement they they gave him all the pros and cons, and that he CHOSE not to give evidence.

Pell not only told the Cops he was innocent like Lehrmann did, he also CHOSE to get in the box and swear under oath he was innocent.

You are quite wrong when you assert NOTHING follows from his CHOICE, and I have explained that.......she swore, he did not, and here I am, a pretend juror making a decision on whom I believe.

The Pell case was about MUCH more than Pell.

This case is not - other than the now -customary believe women, whatever they say because they are women.

There is now an unspoken demand to weigh men and women differently and to give greater weight to women's evidence BECAUSE they are women.

Nuts to that. Women are either equal- in truthfulness, lying, honour, mendacity - or they are not.
If not - what IS the difference?? What is the moral ground for the difference?

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« Last Edit: Oct 30^th, 2022 at 6:31pm by Frank »

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #841 - Oct 30^th, 2022 at 5:57pm

Something for future mould-breakers of the future:

Weaponising the media in the service of the cause is a game of Russian roulette.

Uttering or agreeing with falsehoods put by the media personality or gratuitously volunteering false information has consequences that speak to the nature of your character.

The media personality risks nothing (and sometimes wins awards) - the mould-breaker risks being broken.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #842 - Oct 30^th, 2022 at 6:01pm

Aussie wrote on Oct 30^th, 2022 at 5:17pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 30^th, 2022 at 4:32pm:

NOW we hear - after the trial has been aborted - that "he removed her bra".... first I've heard of it ....* could someone tell me how he did that given that she was wearing a slinky dress that was tight enough that it would show straps, and when the first security check (long overdue by any standards of looking after well-being of those in the care of security - SOTH again) said she was 'partly naked'.....

Now we haven't heard from that security officer what 'partly naked' meant at the time.... but if she was wearing no undies, perhaps that meant she was sleeping on the couch with her dress up.

And of course - the original wording was 'no underwear'.... now I may be old and I may be dumb - but a bra is underwear....

I think you can all lay down and go back to sleep now.

* is this kind of a Pascoe thing? Oh, well, she wasn't wearing a bra so he must have removed it.... then where was it?

Anybody?

Ferfuxsake!

Quote:

“He’d taken my dress off my body. He had not taken my underwear because he could not take my underwear. I was only wearing a bra,’’

Ms Higgins told the court.

Further, Dopey, it was the knickers, she said, which showed 'lines' through the dress.....NOT the bloody bra.

Have you ever tried to undress a lump?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #843 - Oct 30^th, 2022 at 6:15pm

So if she was comatose on the couch - how does she recall that he took her dress off and her bra?

When did all this happen? Is there anything to suggest she may not have stripped off to flake on the couch herself? And again - what does the security person mean saying she was 'partially naked' on first check? The second check - after a lapse of hours - said she was naked....

Aussie - when a 'juror' asks a question - no swearing and put-downs to stroke your little ego.... just answer the question. Alienating the asker with your attitude will not help your case... try growing up.

Now - you are ALL jumping to conclusions without access to the court record..... and some of you are finding any desperate reason to find the guy guilty - without any solid evidence.....

Well - if that is the case - I hope there is no re-trial.... just to save you all from being so stupid.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #844 - Oct 30^th, 2022 at 6:19pm

Aussie wrote on Oct 30^th, 2022 at 5:35pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 30^th, 2022 at 5:31pm:

Yes, once the point was made by the defence. The matter was settled. She’d said he took her underpants off and then said he couldn’t have because she’d admitted she wasn’t wearing any.

You'll have to dumb that down for me....step by step.

Just for you - she’d said he took her underpants off and then said he couldn’t have because she’d admitted she wasn’t wearing any.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Sophia

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #845 - Oct 30^th, 2022 at 6:21pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 30^th, 2022 at 5:57pm:

Something for future mould-breakers of the future:

Weaponising the media in the service of the cause is a game of Russian roulette.

Uttering or agreeing with falsehoods put by the media personality or gratuitously volunteering false information has consequences that speak to the nature of your character.

The media personality risks nothing (and sometimes wins awards) - the mould-breaker risks being broken.

I agree about the media.
The media situation initially wasn’t something Ms Higgins had in mind.
She was made to feel worried she would lose her job if she said anything and I could be wrong…but I feel she didn’t get proper support she sought in those early stages.

Now I read further back someone mentioned that one such lawyer is labor.
Well that lit up a bulb moment… and anything to put antagonism towards the Libs?

I felt she was cannon fodder.

If this wasn’t so political…. no one would’ve given 2 hoots about any alleged rape… pants on or pants off!

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #846 - Oct 30^th, 2022 at 6:31pm

Frank wrote on Oct 30^th, 2022 at 5:57pm:

The Pell case was about MUCH more than Pell.

This case is not - other than the now -customary believe women, whatever they say because they are women.

There is now an unspoken demand to weight men and women differently and to give greater weight to women's evidence BECAUSE they are women.

Nuts to that. Women are either equal- in truthfulness, lying, honour, mendacity - or they are not.
If not - what IS the difference?? What is the moral ground for the difference?

Got it in one - with the exception that it is not an unspoken demand.... it is a feminist policy and within a mickey hair of becoming Labor policy, given that Labor is now controlled by feminists, and they see every advantage in obtaining preferential treatment so as to extend their power and control over society, and to validate their Causes™.

Back to the case:- so now we are to accept that since St Brittany recanted on the stand her previous statements about several aspects of her evidence...... those months of vitriol, prejudice and outright hatred towards the defendant simply go away, his life and career are not tarnished forever, and a fair trial results with no juror having heard one word about this?

She made four incorrect statements - we all know what they are by now.... and the general rule is that if a person lies about one thing, their entire evidence is suspect....

I'd also like to know why, if she wore no panties since they would show lines, she would wear a bra as well when it would show greater lines and catch etc... and I do recall that the original statement was 'did not wear underwear' .....

Thus far the only thing fair about this case has been the jury being discharged unable to reach agreement.... on the strange story of a left-behind document...

Seriously - it is not worth the trouble and cost of a re-trial and consequent appeals leading to a Hayne conclusion of release anyway.... and it is time governments and courts and everybody else stopped catering to the baying crowds outside their gates and told them where and when to get off the bus..... in this and countless other issues.......

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Aussie

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #847 - Oct 30^th, 2022 at 6:32pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 30^th, 2022 at 6:01pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 30^th, 2022 at 5:17pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 30^th, 2022 at 4:32pm:

NOW we hear - after the trial has been aborted - that "he removed her bra".... first I've heard of it ....* could someone tell me how he did that given that she was wearing a slinky dress that was tight enough that it would show straps, and when the first security check (long overdue by any standards of looking after well-being of those in the care of security - SOTH again) said she was 'partly naked'.....

Now we haven't heard from that security officer what 'partly naked' meant at the time.... but if she was wearing no undies, perhaps that meant she was sleeping on the couch with her dress up.

And of course - the original wording was 'no underwear'.... now I may be old and I may be dumb - but a bra is underwear....

I think you can all lay down and go back to sleep now.

* is this kind of a Pascoe thing? Oh, well, she wasn't wearing a bra so he must have removed it.... then where was it?

Anybody?

Ferfuxsake!

Quote:

“He’d taken my dress off my body. He had not taken my underwear because he could not take my underwear. I was only wearing a bra,’’

Ms Higgins told the court.

Further, Dopey, it was the knickers, she said, which showed 'lines' through the dress.....NOT the bloody bra.

Have you ever tried to undress a lump?

No, but I imagine that if you did, there might be at least one bruise, ey?

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Aussie

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #848 - Oct 30^th, 2022 at 6:35pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 30^th, 2022 at 6:15pm:

So if she was comatose on the couch - how does she recall that he took her dress off and her bra?

When did all this happen? Is there anything to suggest she may not have stripped off to flake on the couch herself? And again - what does the security person mean saying she was 'partially naked' on first check? The second check - after a lapse of hours - said she was naked....

Aussie - when a 'juror' asks a question - no swearing and put-downs to stroke your little ego.... just answer the question. Alienating the asker with your attitude will not help your case... try growing up.

Now - you are ALL jumping to conclusions without access to the court record..... and some of you are finding any desperate reason to find the guy guilty - without any solid evidence.....

Well - if that is the case - I hope there is no re-trial.... just to save you all from being so stupid.

It ain't me fuqqing up every time something is discussed.

Remember????

It was you who said you had never heard about her bra being mentioned IN COURT.

Roll Eyes

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Frank Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 44079 Gender:	Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins Reply #849 - Oct 30^th, 2022 at 6:36pm
Back to top	Estragon: I can’t go on like this. Vladimir: That’s what you think. IP Logged

Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 83544 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins Reply #850 - Oct 30^th, 2022 at 6:45pm .. a bruise for which there was no evidence produced until weeks later... could have come from anywhere.... how if she'd gone immediately to police or doctor or hospital......
Back to top	“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams IP Logged

Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 38508 Gender:	Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins Reply #851 - Oct 30^th, 2022 at 6:52pm Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 30^th, 2022 at 6:45pm: .. a bruise for which there was no evidence produced until weeks later... could have come from anywhere.... how if she'd gone immediately to police or doctor or hospital...... The full story Grappler. Link.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #852 - Oct 30^th, 2022 at 6:53pm

Sophia wrote on Oct 30^th, 2022 at 6:21pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 30^th, 2022 at 5:57pm:

Something for future mould-breakers of the future:

Weaponising the media in the service of the cause is a game of Russian roulette.

Uttering or agreeing with falsehoods put by the media personality or gratuitously volunteering false information has consequences that speak to the nature of your character.

The media personality risks nothing (and sometimes wins awards) - the mould-breaker risks being broken.

I agree about the media.
The media situation initially wasn’t something Ms Higgins had in mind.
She was made to feel worried she would lose her job if she said anything and I could be wrong…but I feel she didn’t get proper support she sought in those early stages.

Now I read further back someone mentioned that one such lawyer is labor.
Well that lit up a bulb moment… and anything to put antagonism towards the Libs?

I felt she was cannon fodder.

If this wasn’t so political…. no one would’ve given 2 hoots about any alleged rape… pants on or pants off!

Already said she might be a relatively innocent dupe in the hands of manipulators.... they stand to lose nothing as you say ... she may lose all credibility in life.... the only winners are likely to be the media and the lawyers and possibly Labor....

I repeat - I have more time for her than I do for them... I know first hand what the media vultures are like, and there is no honour among them.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #853 - Oct 30^th, 2022 at 6:57pm

Aussie wrote on Oct 30^th, 2022 at 6:35pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 30^th, 2022 at 6:15pm:

So if she was comatose on the couch - how does she recall that he took her dress off and her bra?

When did all this happen? Is there anything to suggest she may not have stripped off to flake on the couch herself? And again - what does the security person mean saying she was 'partially naked' on first check? The second check - after a lapse of hours - said she was naked....

Aussie - when a 'juror' asks a question - no swearing and put-downs to stroke your little ego.... just answer the question. Alienating the asker with your attitude will not help your case... try growing up.

Now - you are ALL jumping to conclusions without access to the court record..... and some of you are finding any desperate reason to find the guy guilty - without any solid evidence.....

Well - if that is the case - I hope there is no re-trial.... just to save you all from being so stupid.

It ain't me fuqqing up every time something is discussed.

Remember????

It was you who said you had never heard about her bra being mentioned IN COURT.

Roll Eyes

So how is that in any way a f

u

ckup on my part? I said I hadn't heard it before... just answer an honest question with an honest answer, stay off whatever is guiding you into this vitriol, and remain calm and civilised.... lest you continue your f

u

ckups in this matter......

So far you've taken one trick.... and only on the basis that I didn't know that before... try growing up.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #854 - Oct 30^th, 2022 at 6:58pm

Sophia wrote on Oct 30^th, 2022 at 6:21pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 30^th, 2022 at 5:57pm:

Something for future mould-breakers of the future:

Weaponising the media in the service of the cause is a game of Russian roulette.

Uttering or agreeing with falsehoods put by the media personality or gratuitously volunteering false information has consequences that speak to the nature of your character.

The media personality risks nothing (and sometimes wins awards) - the mould-breaker risks being broken.

I agree about the media.
The media situation initially wasn’t something Ms Higgins had in mind.
She was made to feel worried she would lose her job if she said anything and I could be wrong…but I feel she didn’t get proper support she sought in those early stages.

Now I read further back someone mentioned that one such lawyer is labor.
Well that lit up a bulb moment… and anything to put antagonism towards the Libs?

I felt she was cannon fodder.

If this wasn’t so political…. no one would’ve given 2 hoots about any alleged rape… pants on or pants off!

The connection to Labor was via Emma Webster - a spin doctor (or, if you prefer, a professional media influencer) who had worked directly for Rudd and Gillard along with other senior Labor politicians.

Wilkinson and her husband, Peter Fiitzsimons were quick to jump in with a media plan that transformed the Higgins’ case into a national affair with as high a profile as Pell and trending towards Chamberlain.

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Question: Will there be a conviction?
Yes 3 (14.3%) No 17 (81.0%) Not sure 1 (4.8%) Total votes: 21 « Created by: Lisa Jones on: Oct 22^nd, 2022 at 7:49am »