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Course too hard, sack the teacher (Read 383 times)
Gordon
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Course too hard, sack the teacher
Oct 4th, 2022 at 7:53pm
 
At N.Y.U., Students Were Failing Organic Chemistry. Who Was to Blame?

Maitland Jones Jr., a respected professor, defended his standards. But students started a petition, and the university dismissed him.


In the field of organic chemistry, Maitland Jones Jr. has a storied reputation. He taught the subject for decades, first at Princeton and then at New York University, and wrote an influential textbook. He received awards for his teaching, as well as recognition as one of N.Y.U.’s coolest professors.

But last spring, as the campus emerged from pandemic restrictions, 82 of his 350 students signed a petition against him.

Students said the high-stakes course — notorious for ending many a dream of medical school — was too hard, blaming Dr. Jones for their poor test scores.

The professor defended his standards. But just before the start of the fall semester, university deans terminated Dr. Jones’s contract.

The officials also had tried to placate the students by offering to review their grades and allowing them to withdraw from the class retroactively. The chemistry department’s chairman, Mark E. Tuckerman, said the unusual offer to withdraw was a “one-time exception granted to students by the dean of the college.”

Marc A. Walters, director of undergraduate studies in the chemistry department, summed up the situation in an email to Dr. Jones, before his firing.

He said the plan would “extend a gentle but firm hand to the students and those who pay the tuition bills,” an apparent reference to parents.

The university’s handling of the petition provoked equal and opposite reactions from both the chemistry faculty, who protested the decisions, and pro-Jones students, who sent glowing letters of endorsement.

“The deans are obviously going for some bottom line, and they want happy students who are saying great things about the university so more people apply and the U.S. News rankings keep going higher,” said Paramjit Arora, a chemistry professor who has worked closely with Dr. Jones.

In short, this one unhappy chemistry class could be a case study of the pressures on higher education as it tries to handle its Gen-Z student body. Should universities ease pressure on students, many of whom are still coping with the pandemic’s effects on their mental health and schooling? How should universities respond to the increasing number of complaints by students against professors? Do students have too much power over contract faculty members, who do not have the protections of tenure? 

And how hard should organic chemistry be anyway?

Dr. Jones, 84, is known for changing the way the subject is taught. In addition to writing the 1,300-page textbook “Organic Chemistry,” now in its fifth edition, he pioneered a new method of instruction that relied less on rote memorization and more on problem solving.

After retiring from Princeton in 2007, he taught organic chemistry at N.Y.U. on a series of yearly contracts. About a decade ago, he said in an interview, he noticed a loss of focus among the students, even as more of them enrolled in his class, hoping to pursue medical careers.Students were misreading exam questions at an astonishing rate,” he wrote in a grievance to the university, protesting his termination. Grades fell even as he reduced the difficulty of his exams.

The problem was exacerbated by the pandemic, he said. “In the last two years, they fell off a cliff,” he wrote. “We now see single digit scores and even zeros.”

After several years of Covid learning loss, the students not only didn’t study, they didn’t seem to know how to study, Dr. Jones said.

To ease pandemic stress, Dr. Jones and two other professors taped 52 organic chemistry lectures. Dr. Jones said that he personally paid more than $5,000 for the videos and that they are still used by the university.

That was not enough. In 2020, some 30 students out of 475 filed a petition asking for more help, said Dr. Arora, who taught that class with Dr. Jones. “They were really struggling,” he explained. “They didn’t have good internet coverage at home. All sorts of things.”

The professors assuaged the students in an online town-hall meeting, Dr. Arora said.

Many students were having other problems. Kent Kirshenbaum, another chemistry professor at N.Y.U., said he discovered cheating during online tests.

When he pushed students’ grades down, noting the egregious misconduct, he said they protested that “they were not given grades that would allow them to get into medical school.”

By spring 2022, the university was returning with fewer Covid restrictions, but the anxiety continued and students seemed disengaged.

“They weren’t coming to class, that’s for sure, because I can count the house,” Dr. Jones said in an interview. “They weren’t watching the videos, and they weren’t able to answer the questions.”

Students could choose between two sections, one focused on problem solving, the other on traditional lectures. Students in both sections shared problems on a GroupMe chat and began venting about the class. Those texts kick-started the petition, submitted in May.

“We are very concerned about our scores, and find that they are not an accurate reflection of the time and effort put into this class,” the petition said.

The students criticized Dr. Jones’s decision to reduce the number of midterm exams from three to two, flattening their chances to compensate for low grades.
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Frank
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Re: Course too hard, sack the teacher
Reply #1 - Oct 4th, 2022 at 9:29pm
 
This is happening at every university. Most academics self-regulate. The massification - 'diversity' - of an elite intellectual pursuit inevitably requires the lowering of standards. You cannot extend higher education to 40-50 percent of the population without lowering it.

Higher Fair-to-middling Education.
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Yadda
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Re: Course too hard, sack the teacher
Reply #2 - Oct 4th, 2022 at 10:13pm
 

Lowering [higher] academic standards......

It is the age where every 'child' must get a prize, so as to avoid the also-ran's feeling the humiliation, of their lack of accomplishment/competence.



.



Apologies for the quotes, but they still hit it for me.

It is all connected, imo.




Proverbs 14:34
Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people.


"Glory follows virtue as if it were its shadow."
- Marcus Tullius Cicero, Roman Statesman


To ignore evil is to become an accomplice to it.
- Martin Luther King, Jr.


"There are only two races in the world, the decent and the indecent."
Victor Frankl - Nazi Holocaust survivor


"Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil."
- Thomas Mann


“We make men without chests and expect from them virtue and enterprise.
We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst.”
- The Abolition of Man, by C.S. Lewis


We are what we repeatedly do.
Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.
- Aristotle


"It is our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
- Professor Dumbledore
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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AusGeoff
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Re: Course too hard, sack the teacher
Reply #3 - Oct 4th, 2022 at 10:26pm
 


A double-edged sword maybe?

The students are too lazy, unfocussed, and work shy.
Professor Jones at 84 is too old for a job involving
communicating with late millennials or early Gen-Zs.

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Yadda
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Re: Course too hard, sack the teacher
Reply #4 - Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:38am
 
AusGeoff wrote on Oct 4th, 2022 at 10:26pm:

A double-edged sword maybe?

The students are too lazy, unfocussed, and work shy.


Professor Jones at 84 is too old for a job involving
communicating with late millennials or early Gen-Zs.



A double-edged sword maybe?

The students are too lazy, unfocussed, and work shy.



Nah, its just a single edge cutlass.



Students, circa 2022, have become too distracted by their screen lives, and by the machinations of modern life, and 'are weighed down', by 'how difficult life is',     ....for them.

They are 'assailed', by their modern inability to focus [their constant screen life], and are hugely influenced by their own conviction, that they, themselves [and through the power of their own whims], THEY, ought to be the masters of their own destiny !

Quote:
.....82 of his 350 students signed a petition against him.

Students said the high-stakes course — notorious for ending many a dream of medical school — was too hard, blaming Dr. Jones for their poor test scores.




And it is a complete anachronism [to those students] that some authority external to themselves, should judge their [social or academic] virtue.

AND,   ....we see, that today,       .....indeed, society, is prepared to pander to the desires and the expectations of these rebellious children.     [
"Maitland Jones Jr., a respected professor, defended his standards. But students started a petition, and the university dismissed him."
]


In circa 2022, the lunatics, indeed are in charge of the asylum !



.



The obligatory scripture.....       Tongue      Tongue      Tongue

Isaiah 3:9
The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves.
10  Say ye to the righteous, that it shall be well with him: for they shall eat the fruit of their doings.
11  Woe unto the wicked! it shall be ill with him: for the reward of his hands shall be given him.
12  As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.


Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
7  As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.
8  They eat up the sin of my people, and they set their heart on their iniquity.



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Bobby.
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Re: Course too hard, sack the teacher
Reply #5 - Oct 5th, 2022 at 9:38am
 
Chemistry - organic and inorganic were my worst subjects at Uni -
I spent more time on them than any other subjects yet it still wasn't enough -
they were so difficult.
They expected you to predict the chemical reaction of 2 compounds
that you'd never seen before -
well you  might have if you had read the 5 books they prescribed for each subject
each with 100s of pages of fine print -
each page taking an hour or more to try and understand - yet alone remember.
I respect anyone who can get a degree in chemistry.
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Frank
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Re: Course too hard, sack the teacher
Reply #6 - Oct 5th, 2022 at 9:57am
 
Students were misreading exam questions at an astonishing rate,” he wrote in a grievance to the university, protesting his termination. Grades fell even as he reduced the difficulty of his exams.

The problem was exacerbated by the pandemic, he said. “In the last two years, they fell off a cliff,” he wrote. “We now see single digit scores and even zeros.” After several years of Covid learning loss, the students not only didn’t study, they didn’t seem to know how to study, Dr. Jones said.




Weak students will scapegoat anyone and anything as long as they can shift the blame from themselves.  Note that only about 25 signed the petition.  So three quarters didn't think that the prof was at fault or that it is fair to blame him.
There are many students in university courses who shouldn't be there.



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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Course too hard, sack the teacher
Reply #7 - Oct 5th, 2022 at 10:02am
 
Frank wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 9:57am:
Weak students will scapegoat anyone and anything as long as they can shift the blame from themselves. 

The oldest story in the book where shame is concerned - the greatest motivator of projection alongside guilt.
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Yadda
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Re: Course too hard, sack the teacher
Reply #8 - Oct 5th, 2022 at 12:50pm
 



IMAGE.....
...

PROBABLE STUDENT CONCERN ?
In a WOKE university environment, this 'troublesome' guy is just too White.



Racism.

The neo-Marxist WOKE collective must not be accused of such a thing.

DIS IS VERBOTEN !!!





NYU chemistry professor fired after students sign petition saying class was too hard
Christopher Koulouris: About author bio at bottom of article. -
October 4, 2022      

https://scallywagandvagabond.com/2022/10/maitland-jones-jr-nyu-chemistry-profess
or-fired-students-sign-petition-saying-class-was-too-hard/


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Dnarever
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Re: Course too hard, sack the teacher
Reply #9 - Oct 5th, 2022 at 5:48pm
 
Often when there is smoke the cause is fire. 60 or 80 students do not complain for no reason.

I was once doing a communications subject as a module in a course.

There were two classes and thus two Lecturers.

The students in one of the classes had a near 100% pass rate and the students in the other had an almost 0% pass rate. This had been the outcome for at least 5 years.

I was in the poor class and managed a deferred exam - I got close enough to a pass to be allowed the redo the exam.

The first lesson the lecturer told the class to not bother buying the $250 text book we didn't need it.

A few students in this class were studying for the exam with students from the other class and found out that all the topics in the text book were examined and that you have no chance without the text book. The other lecturer didn't cover most of the examinable topics. In his view these topics were mostly BS. Needless to say 90% of his student failed the exceptions were the ones who found out before it was too late that they hade not been taught most of the examinable topic.

The school worked out that there was a problem, their solution was to revamp the topic making it a lot easier for the next year. The new text book was like an 80 page paperback instead of a 700 page text book.

OH it was never the lecturers fault that all his students failed every year.
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Frank
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Re: Course too hard, sack the teacher
Reply #10 - Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:15pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 5:48pm:
Often when there is smoke the cause is fire. 60 or 80 students do not complain for no reason.

I was once doing a communications subject
as a module in a course.

There were two classes and thus two Lecturers.

The students in one of the classes had a near 100% pass rate and the students in the other had an almost 0% pass rate. This had been the outcome for at least 5 years.

I was in the poor class and managed a deferred exam - I got close enough to a pass to be allowed the redo the exam.

The first lesson the lecturer told the class to not bother buying the $250 text book we didn't need it.

A few students in this class were studying for the exam with students from the other class and found out that all the topics in the text book were examined and that you have no chance without the text book. The other lecturer didn't cover most of the examinable topics. In his view these topics were mostly BS. Needless to say 90% of his student failed the exceptions were the ones who found out before it was too late that they hade not been taught most of the examinable topic.

The school worked out that there was a problem, their solution was to revamp the topic making it a lot easier for the next year. The new text book was like an 80 page paperback instead of a 700 page text book.

OH it was never the lecturers fault that all his students failed every year.

Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Gordon
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Re: Course too hard, sack the teacher
Reply #11 - Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:20pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 5:48pm:
Often when there is smoke the cause is fire. 60 or 80 students do not complain for no reason.

I was once doing a communications subject as a module in a course.

There were two classes and thus two Lecturers.

The students in one of the classes had a near 100% pass rate and the students in the other had an almost 0% pass rate. This had been the outcome for at least 5 years.

I was in the poor class and managed a deferred exam - I got close enough to a pass to be allowed the redo the exam.

The first lesson the lecturer told the class to not bother buying the $250 text book we didn't need it.

A few students in this class were studying for the exam with students from the other class and found out that all the topics in the text book were examined and that you have no chance without the text book. The other lecturer didn't cover most of the examinable topics. In his view these topics were mostly BS. Needless to say 90% of his student failed the exceptions were the ones who found out before it was too late that they hade not been taught most of the examinable topic.

The school worked out that there was a problem, their solution was to revamp the topic making it a lot easier for the next year. The new text book was like an 80 page paperback instead of a 700 page text book.

OH it was never the lecturers fault that all his students failed every year.


The teacher being fired LITERALLY wrote the book on organic chemistry  Grin

https://www.booktopia.com.au/organic-chemistry-maitland-jones-jr-/book/978039391...

...
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Dnarever
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Re: Course too hard, sack the teacher
Reply #12 - Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:43pm
 
Gordon wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:20pm:
Dnarever wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 5:48pm:
Often when there is smoke the cause is fire. 60 or 80 students do not complain for no reason.

I was once doing a communications subject as a module in a course.

There were two classes and thus two Lecturers.

The students in one of the classes had a near 100% pass rate and the students in the other had an almost 0% pass rate. This had been the outcome for at least 5 years.

I was in the poor class and managed a deferred exam - I got close enough to a pass to be allowed the redo the exam.

The first lesson the lecturer told the class to not bother buying the $250 text book we didn't need it.

A few students in this class were studying for the exam with students from the other class and found out that all the topics in the text book were examined and that you have no chance without the text book. The other lecturer didn't cover most of the examinable topics. In his view these topics were mostly BS. Needless to say 90% of his student failed the exceptions were the ones who found out before it was too late that they hade not been taught most of the examinable topic.

The school worked out that there was a problem, their solution was to revamp the topic making it a lot easier for the next year. The new text book was like an 80 page paperback instead of a 700 page text book.

OH it was never the lecturers fault that all his students failed every year.


The teacher being fired LITERALLY wrote the book on organic chemistry  Grin

https://www.booktopia.com.au/organic-chemistry-maitland-jones-jr-/book/978039391...

https://i.ibb.co/WHz1T2h/51-Oi-De-V51-LL-AC-SY350-QL15.jpg


Quote:
The teacher being fired LITERALLY wrote the book on organic chemistry  Grin


At 84 there is no guarantee that the teacher is using the same brain that wrote the book or that the writing of a great book is any guarantee that an ability to teach would be likely associated.

If 60 + students have an issue with one lecturer there is normally a reason.

In the US system a high quality lecturer does not get to be 84 years old and not have tenure. If you read between the lines this guy had a huge qualification with his book but was shuffled from one education facility to the next in spite of his seeming qualification.

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Frank
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Re: Course too hard, sack the teacher
Reply #13 - Oct 5th, 2022 at 9:09pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:43pm:
Gordon wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:20pm:
Dnarever wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 5:48pm:
Often when there is smoke the cause is fire. 60 or 80 students do not complain for no reason.

I was once doing a communications subject as a module in a course.

There were two classes and thus two Lecturers.

The students in one of the classes had a near 100% pass rate and the students in the other had an almost 0% pass rate. This had been the outcome for at least 5 years.

I was in the poor class and managed a deferred exam - I got close enough to a pass to be allowed the redo the exam.

The first lesson the lecturer told the class to not bother buying the $250 text book we didn't need it.

A few students in this class were studying for the exam with students from the other class and found out that all the topics in the text book were examined and that you have no chance without the text book. The other lecturer didn't cover most of the examinable topics. In his view these topics were mostly BS. Needless to say 90% of his student failed the exceptions were the ones who found out before it was too late that they hade not been taught most of the examinable topic.

The school worked out that there was a problem, their solution was to revamp the topic making it a lot easier for the next year. The new text book was like an 80 page paperback instead of a 700 page text book.

OH it was never the lecturers fault that all his students failed every year.


The teacher being fired LITERALLY wrote the book on organic chemistry  Grin

https://www.booktopia.com.au/organic-chemistry-maitland-jones-jr-/book/978039391...

https://i.ibb.co/WHz1T2h/51-Oi-De-V51-LL-AC-SY350-QL15.jpg


Quote:
The teacher being fired LITERALLY wrote the book on organic chemistry  Grin


At 84 there is no guarantee that the teacher is using the same brain that wrote the book or that the writing of a great book is any guarantee that an ability to teach would be likely associated.

If 60 + students have an issue with one lecturer there is normally a reason.

In the US system a high quality lecturer does not get to be 84 years old and not have tenure. If you read between the lines this guy had a huge qualification with his book but was shuffled from one education facility to the next in spite of his seeming qualification.


Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin

Duck, you are ready for the pot.

Ridiculous, silly. Idiotic would be overestimating you.


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Dnarever
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Re: Course too hard, sack the teacher
Reply #14 - Oct 5th, 2022 at 9:37pm
 
Frank wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 9:09pm:
Dnarever wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:43pm:
Gordon wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 8:20pm:
Dnarever wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 5:48pm:
Often when there is smoke the cause is fire. 60 or 80 students do not complain for no reason.

I was once doing a communications subject as a module in a course.

There were two classes and thus two Lecturers.

The students in one of the classes had a near 100% pass rate and the students in the other had an almost 0% pass rate. This had been the outcome for at least 5 years.

I was in the poor class and managed a deferred exam - I got close enough to a pass to be allowed the redo the exam.

The first lesson the lecturer told the class to not bother buying the $250 text book we didn't need it.

A few students in this class were studying for the exam with students from the other class and found out that all the topics in the text book were examined and that you have no chance without the text book. The other lecturer didn't cover most of the examinable topics. In his view these topics were mostly BS. Needless to say 90% of his student failed the exceptions were the ones who found out before it was too late that they hade not been taught most of the examinable topic.

The school worked out that there was a problem, their solution was to revamp the topic making it a lot easier for the next year. The new text book was like an 80 page paperback instead of a 700 page text book.

OH it was never the lecturers fault that all his students failed every year.


The teacher being fired LITERALLY wrote the book on organic chemistry  Grin

https://www.booktopia.com.au/organic-chemistry-maitland-jones-jr-/book/978039391...

https://i.ibb.co/WHz1T2h/51-Oi-De-V51-LL-AC-SY350-QL15.jpg


Quote:
The teacher being fired LITERALLY wrote the book on organic chemistry  Grin


At 84 there is no guarantee that the teacher is using the same brain that wrote the book or that the writing of a great book is any guarantee that an ability to teach would be likely associated.

If 60 + students have an issue with one lecturer there is normally a reason.

In the US system a high quality lecturer does not get to be 84 years old and not have tenure. If you read between the lines this guy had a huge qualification with his book but was shuffled from one education facility to the next in spite of his seeming qualification.


Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin

Duck, you are ready for the pot.

Ridiculous, silly. Idiotic would be overestimating you.




You post a simplistic view with no logical support, I make 3 solid points. You have no answer to any of them except to try to insult me like that will somehow cover for your typical lack of substance.

I didn't want to put that more serious topic off topic but I played this version following your Dylan post. A Pretty young girl doing the same song very well.

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