Australian Politics Forum - Sydney to be closed

chimera

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Sydney to be closed
Oct 20^th, 2022 at 9:03am

'On 31 January 1770, Cook claimed possession of Queen Charlotte Sound, South Island New Zealand, “and the adjacent lands” in the name of King George III.'

He had been instructed about another Continent :
'You are also with the Consent of the Natives to take Possession of Convenient Situations in the Country in the Name of the King of Great Britain'.
https://www.foundingdocs.gov.au/resources/transcripts/nsw1_doc_1768.pdf

Prior to his departure for New South Wales, Phillip received his Instructions (composed by Lord Sydney) from King George III, dated 25 April 1787.

'Instructions for Our Trusty George R and well beloved Arthur Phillip Esq. Our Captain General and Governor in Chief, in and over Our Territory of New South Wales. With these Our Instructions you will receive Our Commission under Our Great seal constituting and appointing you to be Our Captain General and Governor in Chief of Our Territory called New South Wales extending from the Northern Cape or Extremity of the Coast called Cape York'.

However, there was no property of the king.

'Previously Cook had landed on the Australian mainland in five places yet there is no mention of a claim of annexation in any of these places in his journals or those written by his officers. This indicates that the Possession Island entry was made after the event by others without sufficient investigation.
Why did Cook take possession on what is now known as Possession Island, which was clearly inhabited, without any acknowledgement of the native people?
In Banks’s journal there is a suggestion that Cook had first called this famous landmark Passage Isle and then conveniently renamed it Possession Island.
Nowhere in Cook’s original journal is there mention of the name New South Wales, so again this was clearly added at a later date.
Sydney Parkinson who was watching his Captain and party ashore writes: 'The captain, and some others, went to the top of a hill, and, seeing a clear passage, hoisted a jack, and fired a volley, which was answered by the marines below, and the marines by three vollies from the ship, and three cheers from the main shrouds'. This indicates the significance of the event was after days of being locked by reef strewn passages they had at last found a way clear and were on their way home, and had nothing to do with annexation.
https://navyhistory.org.au/possession-island/

So Governor Phillip had no legal property in Sydney for the convict colony. The only place available was NZ.
https://www.alamy.com/hills-and-farmland-tory-channel-queen-charlotte-sound-marl...

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« Last Edit: Oct 20^th, 2022 at 2:07pm by chimera »

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Belgarion Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5396 Gender:	Re: Sydney to be closed Reply #1 - Oct 20^th, 2022 at 9:25am Interesting historical footnote, however it changes nothing about the settlement and ownership of NSW.
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chimera

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Re: Sydney to be closed
Reply #2 - Oct 20^th, 2022 at 9:42am

Phillip had no land of 'real (royal) estate' and no employment contract. A contract may be void on several grounds:
Common Mistake
A common mistake is when both parties are mistaken about the subject matter of the contract. For example, if one party agrees to buy a painting from the other party, but the painting was already destroyed by fire, that would be a common mistake that would void the contract.

Lack of Capacity
All parties are presumed to have the mental capacity to understand the nature and effect of the contract. If they demonstrate a lack of capacity (such as through a mental disorder, or being under the age of 18 in Victoria), the contract could be made void.

George III was nuts. https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-22122407

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Bias_2012

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Re: Sydney to be closed
Reply #3 - Oct 20^th, 2022 at 12:05pm

It was either that or we'd all be speaking French, Dutch or Spanish. It was one big competition for empire expansion. They weren't going to bother with formalities as such, only the honor of who got there first

"Other French explorers followed, including Jean-François de Surville, who reached New Zealand just days after Cook had been there. In January 1788 La Perouse arrived to spy on the new British colony planned for Botany Bay.

There had been a long-held belief that a massive southern landmass lay waiting to be discovered in the Pacific, whose control might even tip the balance of power between the rival European states.

In 1756 Charles De Brosses, a French scholar, produced a book on the history of European voyages in the south Pacific, urging France towards further attempts at locating the continent, in order to prevent further British expansion.

Writing in 1770 on the basis of seized Spanish documents, the British East India Company’s Alexander Dalrymple speculated that the continent could be as large as Asia and contain civilisations like those discovered in South America. Trade with such a continent, “would be sufficient to maintain the power, dominion, and sovereignty of Britain, by employing all its manufacturers and ships”, he thought.

Cook’s voyages

Cook’s first voyage in 1768 was officially a scientific expedition commissioned by the Royal Society to observe the transit of Venus across the sun.

But he was also given secret instructions by the Admiralty to search for the Great Southern Land, and to claim it for the British Empire."

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chimera

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Re: Sydney to be closed
Reply #4 - Oct 20^th, 2022 at 2:00pm

Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 20^th, 2022 at 12:05pm:

".and to claim it for the British Empire."

The poms follow Law which is how they created the Hanoverian monarchy and crown each king. The royal orders to Cook and Phillip were written as government legal documents and specified exact locations. Law was allegedly followed with the colony's possession.

'The 7th of February, 1788, was the memorable day which established a regular form of Government on the coast of New South Wales. . The Royal Commission was then read by Mr. D. Collins, the Judge Advocate. By this instrument Arthur Phillip was constituted and appointed Captain General and Governor in Chief in and over the territory, called New South Wales;'.

There was no royal territory there as declared by the king. Sydney was void as was the whole east coast. No further instruction was given to make a legal contract by properly declaring the continent to be the king's territory, possessing it and forming a government. James disobeyed, Phillip was fake and George made a void contract and possibly was a convict.

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Belgarion

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Re: Sydney to be closed
Reply #5 - Oct 20^th, 2022 at 2:54pm

chimera wrote on Oct 20^th, 2022 at 2:00pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 20^th, 2022 at 12:05pm:

".and to claim it for the British Empire."

The poms follow Law which is how they created the Hanoverian monarchy and crown each king. The royal orders to Cook and Phillip were written as government legal documents and specified exact locations. Law was allegedly followed with the colony's possession.

'The 7th of February, 1788, was the memorable day which established a regular form of Government on the coast of New South Wales. . The Royal Commission was then read by Mr. D. Collins, the Judge Advocate. By this instrument Arthur Phillip was constituted and appointed Captain General and Governor in Chief in and over the territory, called New South Wales;'.

There was no royal territory there as declared by the king. Sydney was void as was the whole east coast. No further instruction was given to make a legal contract by properly declaring the continent to be the king's territory, possessing it and forming a government. James disobeyed, Phillip was fake and George made a void contract and possibly was a convict.

So you are going to give your property back to the aboriginals and depart these shores forever? Given your belief that there is somehow a legal error in the claiming of NSW by the British it would seem the only option you have.

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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 103244 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Sydney to be closed Reply #6 - Oct 20^th, 2022 at 3:07pm It was Terra Nullius and the Abbos were conquered. That's it. Don't worry about them - they got plenty of grog money since then from the Whities - more than enough compensation.
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chimera

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Re: Sydney to be closed
Reply #7 - Oct 20^th, 2022 at 3:46pm

South Australia is worse.
The South Australia Act 1834 was 'A [British] Act to empower His Majesty to erect South Australia into a British Province or Provinces and to provide for the Colonization and Government thereof' on the lands between 132 degrees east and 141 degrees of east longitude. 'Captain Hindmarsh, the appointed Governor on 28 December 1836 made an announcement about law, not a proclamation; this stated that the government of the province had been established, obedience to the law would be enforced'.

So it was largely outside NSW (the eastern half of Oz) and the Act was signed in UK with no declaration by an explorer. The Governor didn't make any declaration of royal title. The king may have done something or maybe not.

West Australia is OK and with New Zealand is the only legal land of the monarchy of Australasia. Canberra is outside the royal WA which makes fed law a bit suss.

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« Last Edit: Oct 20^th, 2022 at 3:54pm by chimera »

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chimera Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 11072 armidale Gender:	Re: Sydney to be closed Reply #8 - Oct 20^th, 2022 at 4:02pm Belgarion wrote on Oct 20^th, 2022 at 2:54pm: depart these shores forever? Nah I was born here. It could get tricky if they do a republic. Maybe elect some committee who say 'it's our Oz' and who then get elected and declare a mandate to rule and sign the new constitution. Could work eh.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Sydney to be closed
Reply #9 - Oct 21^st, 2022 at 1:03am

YEEEAH!!!!

Oh... not Sydney City... buggar....

"The 7th of February, 1788, was the memorable day which established a regular form of Government on the coast of New South Wales" ...

So from that day on the regular government held sway and all the rules on property ownership prevailed?

And prior to that there was no regular government?

That's good to know...

You may leave any time you wish and give your property back to the original irregular form of government, as you choose.....

I'm Staying.....Living on Australian Land ..... YOU?

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« Last Edit: Oct 21^st, 2022 at 1:09am by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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chimera

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Re: Sydney to be closed
Reply #10 - Oct 21^st, 2022 at 8:01am

Unfortunately the grants of Crown land and freehold title were fatally flawed and illegal. Regular government was
a) flogging.
b) rum.

The British 'rotten borough' were election districts maintained by the crown or by an aristocratic patron to control seats in the House of Commons with 140 parliamentary seats of a total of 658 in rotten boroughs. Governor Macquarie flogged two free men he found in his vegie patch but they were as illegal as he was. Liz Truss in void, nul and empty and is unable to assist with your inquiry.

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