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UN: Israeli occupation illegal (Read 2022 times)
thegreatdivide
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Re: UN: Israeli occupation illegal
Reply #45 - Aug 23rd, 2024 at 1:32pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 23rd, 2024 at 5:43am:
Then why isn't the UN enforcing peace and separation?


Because the UN doesn't have the machinery to do so, eg a UNSC that can act with one voice, without the veto.

Let's see what your answer is...I'll bet it's nonsense, but I'm prepared to recant if you show otherwise:

Quote:
A.  because none of its countries want to waste their troops' lives there when the HAM-ASSES continue to play up....


So ....not 'nonsense', but it does ignore the fact the UNSecurityC (with 99% of the world's military force) SHOULD be the agency to enforce the peace, not just the hapless soldiers drawn from a couple of nations, but elite UNSC troops drawn from the entire UN membership.

Quote:
if Israel stopped fighting, it would be driven into the sea - if the Arabs stopped fighting, there would be peace and separation.


Again, not nonsense; but it ignores the fact Israel was created out of Arab Palestine Mandate land, against the will of the Arab world, meaning the Arabs were the ones forced to give up their lands.

Quote:
Many of you are both sick and thick in the head.


Careful graps - I have identified the inadequacies/blindness in your arguments, above.

Quote:
  Close down all pro-"Palestinian" riots - maybe 10% are worth saving for the re-education camps... support of a terrorist organisation should mean instant removal of your student rights.... that'd shut 'em up...


The majority of the UN membership - and a large number of uni students -  see the justice in the creation of the Palestinian state. Stop ignoring the fact it is the Arabs whose lands were confiscated by the UN.

Quote:
The Yanks knew how to handle 'em at Kent State... proof of time travel - Abraham Lincoln holding on to that tree branch ... four score and seven tear gases ago.....


Kids protesting against an evil war noted for soldiers killing babies?

How sick are you?




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Frank
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Re: UN: Israeli occupation illegal
Reply #46 - Aug 23rd, 2024 at 3:24pm
 
wombatwoody wrote on Aug 22nd, 2024 at 10:36pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 20th, 2024 at 11:51pm:
Laugh till you cry wrote on Jul 24th, 2024 at 7:06pm:
Palestine is real. Israel is a figment which is currently being dismembered by Israeli Jews.

Israeli Jews are murdering Judaism.


They're just extending the borders of Judea back to where they were....  always was Israeli land 


Then explain this:

When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you— 2 and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally.[a] Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

Deuteronomy 7:1-2



Where are the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites?


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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: UN: Israeli occupation illegal
Reply #47 - Aug 23rd, 2024 at 7:12pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 23rd, 2024 at 1:32pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 23rd, 2024 at 5:43am:
Then why isn't the UN enforcing peace and separation?


Because the UN doesn't have the machinery to do so, eg a UNSC that can act with one voice, without the veto.

Let's see what your answer is...I'll bet it's nonsense, but I'm prepared to recant if you show otherwise:

Quote:
A.  because none of its countries want to waste their troops' lives there when the HAM-ASSES continue to play up....


So ....not 'nonsense', but it does ignore the fact the UNSecurityC (with 99% of the world's military force) SHOULD be the agency to enforce the peace, not just the hapless soldiers drawn from a couple of nations, but elite UNSC troops drawn from the entire UN membership.

Quote:
if Israel stopped fighting, it would be driven into the sea - if the Arabs stopped fighting, there would be peace and separation.


Again, not nonsense; but it ignores the fact Israel was created out of Arab Palestine Mandate land, against the will of the Arab world, meaning the Arabs were the ones forced to give up their lands.

Quote:
Many of you are both sick and thick in the head.


Careful graps - I have identified the inadequacies/blindness in your arguments, above.

Quote:
  Close down all pro-"Palestinian" riots - maybe 10% are worth saving for the re-education camps... support of a terrorist organisation should mean instant removal of your student rights.... that'd shut 'em up...


The majority of the UN membership - and a large number of uni students -  see the justice in the creation of the Palestinian state. Stop ignoring the fact it is the Arabs whose lands were confiscated by the UN.

Quote:
The Yanks knew how to handle 'em at Kent State... proof of time travel - Abraham Lincoln holding on to that tree branch ... four score and seven tear gases ago.....


Kids protesting against an evil war noted for soldiers killing babies?

How sick are you?






So all the UN can do is make a grab for the moral high ground, forgetting the Israeli people and others in Israel slaughtered by the scum of the earth?

If that's nonsense you need your head read in a serious way.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: UN: Israeli occupation illegal
Reply #48 - Aug 23rd, 2024 at 7:15pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 23rd, 2024 at 1:11pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 23rd, 2024 at 5:37am:
wombatwoody wrote on Aug 22nd, 2024 at 10:36pm:
[quote author=The_Grappler link=1666940170/35#35 date=1724161868][quote author=Laugh_till_you_cry link=1666940170/31#31 date=1721812018]Palestine is real. Israel is a figment which is currently being dismembered by Israeli Jews.

Israeli Jews are murdering Judaism.


They're just extending the borders of Judea back to where they were....  always was Israeli land 


Then explain this:

When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you— 2 and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally.[a] Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

Deuteronomy 7:1-2



... and Blaxie, Wentie and Lawsie went across the mountains... Quote:
The Jews themselves were eventually dispossessed from "The Promised Land" - which they had conquered from orhers - by a succession of world empires; you are now arguing the Jews have a right to repossess it, even though they were in a minority during the Palestine Mandate era.

Whereas it seems Oz blacks were indeed the first human inhabitants of Oz, until the 'modern' world entered Oz in 1788...   



Are you arguing that the Aborigines have the right to re-possess Australia?  Including your home and land, of course.

Israel was always a Jewish nation, and was approved as such by a world vote in 1948.... it has every right to exist, unlike the mythical 'Palestine'.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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thegreatdivide
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Re: UN: Israeli occupation illegal
Reply #49 - Aug 24th, 2024 at 1:00pm
 
Frank wrote on Aug 23rd, 2024 at 3:24pm:
wombatwoody wrote on Aug 22nd, 2024 at 10:36pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 20th, 2024 at 11:51pm:
Laugh till you cry wrote on Jul 24th, 2024 at 7:06pm:
Palestine is real. Israel is a figment which is currently being dismembered by Israeli Jews.

Israeli Jews are murdering Judaism.


They're just extending the borders of Judea back to where they were....  always was Israeli land 


Then explain this:

When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you— 2 and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally.[a] Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

Deuteronomy 7:1-2



Where are the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites?


They have been absorbed into the races who live there today.

Whereas most Jews there today have been returning from the diaspora. 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: UN: Israeli occupation illegal
Reply #50 - Aug 24th, 2024 at 1:11pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 23rd, 2024 at 7:12pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 23rd, 2024 at 1:32pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 23rd, 2024 at 5:43am:
Then why isn't the UN enforcing peace and separation?


Because the UN doesn't have the machinery to do so, eg a UNSC that can act with one voice, without the veto.

Let's see what your answer is...I'll bet it's nonsense, but I'm prepared to recant if you show otherwise:

Quote:
A.  because none of its countries want to waste their troops' lives there when the HAM-ASSES continue to play up....


So ....not 'nonsense', but it does ignore the fact the UNSecurityC (with 99% of the world's military force) SHOULD be the agency to enforce the peace, not just the hapless soldiers drawn from a couple of nations, but elite UNSC troops drawn from the entire UN membership.

Quote:
if Israel stopped fighting, it would be driven into the sea - if the Arabs stopped fighting, there would be peace and separation.


Again, not nonsense; but it ignores the fact Israel was created out of Arab Palestine Mandate land, against the will of the Arab world, meaning the Arabs were the ones forced to give up their lands.

Quote:
Many of you are both sick and thick in the head.


Careful graps - I have identified the inadequacies/blindness in your arguments, above.

Quote:
  Close down all pro-"Palestinian" riots - maybe 10% are worth saving for the re-education camps... support of a terrorist organisation should mean instant removal of your student rights.... that'd shut 'em up...


The majority of the UN membership - and a large number of uni students -  see the justice in the creation of the Palestinian state. Stop ignoring the fact it is the Arabs whose lands were confiscated by the UN.

Quote:
The Yanks knew how to handle 'em at Kent State... proof of time travel - Abraham Lincoln holding on to that tree branch ... four score and seven tear gases ago.....


Kids protesting against an evil war noted for soldiers killing babies?

How sick are you?


So all the UN can do is make a grab for the moral high ground, forgetting the Israeli people and others in Israel slaughtered by the scum of the earth?


Yes; like I said, the UNSC is incapable of keeping the peace, because deluded "freedom values" ideologues like you (operating from tribal instinct, not reason)  forced the veto onto the UNSC. 

That's why war is still the method of dispute settlement between nations, negating the UN Charter itself, with the UNSC reduced to  "grabbing the moral high ground"  -while babies are slaughtered by grown men. 

Quote:
If that's nonsense you need your head read in a serious way.


Says the one who acquiesces in baby killing.

Deplorable.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: UN: Israeli occupation illegal
Reply #51 - Aug 24th, 2024 at 1:25pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 23rd, 2024 at 7:15pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 23rd, 2024 at 1:11pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 23rd, 2024 at 5:37am:
wombatwoody wrote on Aug 22nd, 2024 at 10:36pm:
[quote author=The_Grappler link=1666940170/35#35 date=1724161868][quote author=Laugh_till_you_cry link=1666940170/31#31 date=1721812018]Palestine is real. Israel is a figment which is currently being dismembered by Israeli Jews.

Israeli Jews are murdering Judaism.


They're just extending the borders of Judea back to where they were....  always was Israeli land 


Then explain this:

When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you— 2 and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally.[a] Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

Deuteronomy 7:1-2



... and Blaxie, Wentie and Lawsie went across the mountains... Quote:
The Jews themselves were eventually dispossessed from "The Promised Land" - which they had conquered from orhers - by a succession of world empires; you are now arguing the Jews have a right to repossess it, even though they were in a minority during the Palestine Mandate era.

Whereas it seems Oz blacks were indeed the first human inhabitants of Oz, until the 'modern' world entered Oz in 1788...   



Are you arguing that the Aborigines have the right to re-possess Australia?  Including your home and land, of course.


No; whereas you ARE arguing the Jews have a right to repossess Palestine, which was my point. 

Quote:
Israel was always a Jewish nation,


..whose sovereignty began  to disappear under a  succession  of world empires beginning with the Assyrian Empire which absorbed northern Israel c.750BC, until Hadrian wiped Israel off the map in the 1st century AD. 


Quote:
and was approved as such by a world vote in 1948.... it has every right to exist, unlike the mythical 'Palestine'.


.. the  "world vote" being the Western Judeo Christian dominated UN. 

Palestine isn't a myth, indeed the Brits wanted out of its Palestine Mandate when Jews started bombing them in Palestine.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: UN: Israeli occupation illegal
Reply #52 - Aug 24th, 2024 at 2:01pm
 
The Jews had a nation and sovereignty - not just a few wandering sub-tribal groups that never numbered more than 20-30 at any one time, and that was where the food was good, say - down on the coast.

The Aborigines were never driven out of Australia... they were partially assimilated until the useless tools came along and filled their ears with 'rights' and other nonsense... the Jews were forced out and now they've taken it back with world backing.  You have a problem with that?

YOU are actually advocating that Israel either go down or literally smash all the rest to ensure its peace and survival.  YOU and your kind are the war-mongers and troublemakers and are causing the wars on wars there by encouraging the Arabs to wage wars they can't win - but there are always costs in human lives.  Don't encourage the rat-bags too much in the Arab world.... most of them can't think that well....  Allahu Akbar.... at Sydney U of course they are Yahoo Akbars and should have their student privileges withdrawn NOW!

Why don't the rainbow crowd head off to Gaza to help out?  A.  Because they'd spend the rest of their lives just hanging around... the 'women' would be enslaved and taught their 'place' in the Islamist world or be stoned or slit or shot.

Now then - free tickets to Gaza for the Rainbows Supporting Gazans ... who's in with a donation?
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: UN: Israeli occupation illegal
Reply #53 - Aug 24th, 2024 at 2:09pm
 
Oh, lookee there -- there's a river and a sea... all Israel ... so when the Gazans carry on about 'from the river to the sea' they're not even talking about their own borders ... they ain't got no river to the East... part of Jordan has the river as border.... hence The West Bank ... and they ain't got the balls to attack Israel.... apart from a few cowardly rockets and whining ....

...


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« Last Edit: Aug 24th, 2024 at 2:16pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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wombatwoody
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Re: UN: Israeli occupation illegal
Reply #54 - Aug 25th, 2024 at 8:03am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 23rd, 2024 at 7:15pm:
Israel was always a Jewish nation, and was approved as such by a world vote in 1948....



THE UN’S PARTITION PLAN

An inexperienced UN, just two years old in 1947, entrusted the question of the future of Palestine’s fate into the hands of a Special Committee for Palestine, UNSCOP, none of whose members turned out to have any prior experience in solving conflicts or knew much about Palestine’s history...

The report UNSCOP came up with in the end envisaged that the two future states would be identical except for their internal demographic balance, and it therefore stressed the need for both entities to adhere to liberal democratic precepts. On 29 November 1947 this became General Assembly Resolution 181. It is clear that by accepting the Partition Resolution, the UN totally ignored the ethnic composition of the country’s population...

Partitioning the country – overwhelmingly Palestinian – into two equal parts has proven so disastrous because it was carried out against the will of the indigenous majority population. By broadcasting its intent to create equal Jewish and Arab political entities in Palestine, the UN violated the basic rights of the Palestinians, and totally ignored the concern for Palestine in the wider Arab world at the very height of the anti-colonialist struggle in the Middle East. Far worse was the impact the decision had on the country itself and its people. Instead of calming the atmosphere, as it was meant to do, the resolution only heightened tensions and directly caused the country to deteriorate into one of the most violent phases in its history.


THE ARAB AND PALESTINIAN POSITIONS

The Palestinian leadership decided from the start to boycott the UN proceedings. This decision features often in contemporary Israeli propaganda as proof that the Palestinians themselves – not Israel – should be held responsible for the fate that befell them in 1948. Palestinian historiography has successfully fended off such accusations by exposing the extent to which the procedures the UN opted to follow were unjust and illegal, and by exploring the raison d’être behind the establishment of UNSCOP.

By opting for partition as its primary objective, the UN ignored a basic principled objection the Palestinians were voicing against the plan, with which mediators had been familiar since Britain made the Balfour Declaration thirty years earlier. Walid Khalidi succinctly articulated the Palestinian position as follows: ‘The native people of Palestine, like the native people of every other country in the Arab world, Asia, Africa, America and Europe, refused to divide the land with a settler community.’

Within a few weeks of UNSCOP starting its work, the Palestinians realised the cards had been stacked against them: the final result of this process would be a UN resolution on partitioning the country between the Palestinians, as the indigenous population, and a settler colony of newcomers, many of whom had arrived only recently. When Resolution 181 was adopted in November 1947, their worst nightmare began to unfold in front of their eyes: nine months after the British had announced their decision to leave, the Palestinians were at the mercy of an international organisation that appeared ready to ignore all the rules of international mediation, which its own Charter endorsed, and was willing to declare a solution that in Palestinian eyes was both illegal and immoral. Several leading Palestinians at the time demanded that its legality be tested in the International Court of Justice (founded in 1946), but this was never to happen. One does not have to be a great jurist or legal mind to predict how the international court would have ruled on forcing a solution on a country to which the majority of its people were vehemently opposed.

The injustice was as striking then as it appears now, and yet it was hardly commented on at the time by any of the leading Western newspapers then covering Palestine: the Jews, who owned less than six per cent of the total land area of Palestine and constituted no more than one third of the population, were handed more than half of its overall territory. Within the borders of their UN-proposed state, they owned only eleven per cent of the land, and were the minority in every district. In the Negev – admittedly an arid land but still with a considerable rural and Bedouin population, which made up a major chunk of the Jewish state – they constituted one per cent of the total population...

Again in the words of Walid Khalidi, Resolution 181 was ‘a hasty act of granting half of Palestine to an ideological movement that declared openly already in the 1930s its wish to de-Arabise Palestine.’ And thus Resolution 181’s most immoral aspect is that it included no mechanism to prevent the ethnic cleansing of Palestine...

The expected Arab and Palestinian rejection of the plan allowed Ben-Gurion and the Zionist leadership to claim that the UN plan was a dead letter the day it was accepted – apart, of course, from the clauses that recognised the legality of the Jewish state in Palestine. Its borders, given the Palestinian and Arab rejection, said Ben-Gurion, ‘will be determined by force and not by the partition resolution.’ As would be the fate of the Arabs living in it.


The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine  by Ilan Pappe, Chapter 3: Partition and Destruction: UN Resolution 181 and its Impact


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wombatwoody
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Re: UN: Israeli occupation illegal
Reply #55 - Aug 25th, 2024 at 8:04am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 23rd, 2024 at 7:15pm:
it has every right to exist


Racist apartheid states have no right to exist.

Quote:
unlike the mythical 'Palestine'.


...the modern name “Palestine” is derived from the common name for the region since the end of the Bronze Age (3300–1200 BCE). Ancient Egyptian inscriptions from the 12th century BCE referred to “Peleset”, and ancient Assyrian texts referred to “Palashtu”or “Pilistu”.

The area was also called Palestine by the Greeks long before the Romans. The Greeks had called the whole region “Palestina” or some variant for centuries. In the 5th century BCE, the Greek historian Herodotus used the word “Palaistine” to refer to the region. He traveled to Palestine, and his writings speak of the land’s Arab inhabitants but not of Judea or Jews...

The Romans had also called the broader region “Syria Palaestina” prior to the Jewish revolts in the province of Judea, which was always seen as a component of this greater area of Palestine. The Roman Empire after the Bar Kohkba revolt incorporated Judea into a widened district of Palestine.

In sum, contrary to popular belief, the name “Palestine” did not originate with the Romans after it crushed the Bar Kokhba revolt of 132 CE – 136 CE. On the contrary, it is the cognate of a common name for the region predating the ancient kingdoms of Israel and Judea.


A Brief History of Palestine, from Canaan through the Mandate Era:

https://www.jeremyrhammond.com/2024/01/04/history-of-palestine/
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thegreatdivide
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Re: UN: Israeli occupation illegal
Reply #56 - Aug 25th, 2024 at 3:01pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 24th, 2024 at 2:09pm:
Oh, lookee there -- there's a river and a sea... all Israel ... so when the Gazans carry on about 'from the river to the sea' they're not even talking about their own borders ... they ain't got no river to the East... part of Jordan has the river as border.... hence The West Bank ... and they ain't got the balls to attack Israel.... apart from a few cowardly rockets and whining ....


You are as mentally incompetent as Fraudiver; you look at names and borders on a map which have long disapppeared in the course of history. 

That 'Kingdom of Israel' (shown on your map)  - already separated  from the 'Kingdom of Judea' because of civil war among the Jews after the short-lived Israeli 'golden age' under King Solomon (ruled  c.950 BC) , was soon subsumed by the Assyrian Empire c.720 BC.  (Judea itself fell to the Babylonian Empire c. 600 BC).



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« Last Edit: Aug 25th, 2024 at 3:18pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Re: UN: Israeli occupation illegal
Reply #57 - Aug 25th, 2024 at 4:00pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 24th, 2024 at 2:01pm:
The Jews had a nation and sovereignty -


Indeed, the operative word being "had"; in fact, Israel  at its peak under King Solomon no doubt existed 'from the river to the sea',  before it split into 2 kingdoms:

(google)

The  kingdom of Israel divided into two states (following  Solomon's death c.930 BC) and lasted from approximately 922 to 721 BC

While two southern tribes, Judah and Benjamin, remained loyal to the memory of King David  (hence "Judea"); the northern ten tribes, collectively called "Israel", revolted against  Solomon's son, Rehoboam.
 

Quote:
The Aborigines were never driven out of Australia... they were partially assimilated until the useless tools came along and filled their ears with 'rights' and other nonsense... the Jews were forced out and now they've taken it back with world backing.  You have a problem with that?


I agree Oz blacks need to join the modern world; as for Palestine, I'm ok with a Jewish state PROVIDED UN res 181 - which has  "world backing" (to use your words) is implemented on the ground.

Read Wombatwoody's  2 posts (immediately above)  which link to the scholarly articles explaining the UN's incompetence and failure to implement its own laws.   


Quote:
YOU are actually advocating that Israel either go down or literally smash all the rest to ensure its peace and survival.  YOU and your kind are the war-mongers and troublemakers and are causing the wars on wars there by encouraging the Arabs to wage wars they can't win - but there are always costs in human lives.  Don't encourage the rat-bags too much in the Arab world.... most of them can't think that well....  Allahu Akbar.... at Sydney U of course they are Yahoo Akbars and should have their student privileges withdrawn NOW!


Refuted above: you are ignoring the incompetence of the UN to enforce its own laws, and are now complicit in the slaughter of children.

And the fact you reckon students at  Kent State
Uni (who were protesting the slaughter of civilians in Vietnam) deserved to be murdered by the National Guard, exposes YOUR war-mongering mentality. 

Men will disagree; hence the UN Charter is supposed to "save mankind from the scourge of war..."

But your delusional, instinct-driven, 'freedom values'  ideology forced the veto onto the UNSC, rendering it useless as an international law-enforcer.   

Quote:
Why don't the rainbow crowd head off to Gaza to help out?  A.  Because they'd spend the rest of their lives just hanging around... the 'women' would be enslaved and taught their 'place' in the Islamist world or be stoned or slit or shot.


Another one of your sick narratives; people who love life don't go to Gaza, the Israeli state has  murdered many peace activists over the years who dare to support Palestinians at the front line.   


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« Last Edit: Aug 25th, 2024 at 4:08pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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