Australian Politics Forum - China- Uprisings Erupting Against CCP Across China

Frank

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Re: China- Uprisings Erupting Against CCP Across China
Reply #225 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 11:09am

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 10:57am:

Frank wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 10:43am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 10:32am:

freediver wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 8:28am:

Quote:

Governance to promote collective well-being, as opposed to governance to promote individual "freedom"

Governments of free countries cannot starve 50 million of their citizens to death by trying to feed them equally. Yet governance to promote collective well-being can, apparently.

Past failures are no evidence of future successes (to reverse the investment mantra...)

So..achieving collective well-being remains the finest of motivations.

That 'So...' is entirely spurios.

If you insist. So I will rewrite it.

"Achieving collective well-being remains the finest of motivations".

Quote:

" What preceeds it is so completely stupid and banal that nothing can flow from it, 'so...." or no 'so....' What comes after it is also a stupid banality, an empty slogan.

So.. re the "before" - can you debate any of the issues raised?

As for the "after", you reveal how you normalize the "deceptive, chronic, generational' poverty marring the fake "freedom values" Western ideology, and so write off collective well-being as a banality. Loser.

So.......

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: China- Uprisings Erupting Against CCP Across China
Reply #226 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 11:09am

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 10:21am:

Quote:

All totalitarian regimes are the same.

Your definition of 'totalitarian' is problematic (as expected from a fundamentalist ideologue); a Singapore ex-foreign minister (IIRC) refers to China as a "one party meritocracy".

So that's you and someone from Singapore. That's two, I guess.

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« Last Edit: Dec 11^th, 2022 at 11:17am by MeisterEckhart »

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: China- Uprisings Erupting Against CCP Across China
Reply #227 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 11:29am

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 10:21am:

Quote:

All totalitarian regimes are the same.

Your definition of 'totalitarian' is problematic (as expected from a fundamentalist ideologue); a Singapore ex-foreign minister (IIRC) refers to China as a "one party meritocracy".

Quote:

If you'd ever spoken to anyone who's ever lived under one, you'd know that.

China has moved on from the old Soviet regimes.

No, it hasn't. No totalitarian regime voluntarily moves away from totalitarianism.

Totalitarian regimes do not evolve, they collapse - via military defeat or economic collapse - If you'd ever spoken to those who've lived under one, you'd know that.

The CCP is steering China towards the latter.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: China- Uprisings Erupting Against CCP Across China
Reply #228 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 11:42am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 11:09am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 10:21am:

Quote:

All totalitarian regimes are the same.

Your definition of 'totalitarian' is problematic (as expected from a fundamentalist ideologue); a Singapore ex-foreign minister (IIRC) refers to China as a "one party meritocracy".

So that's you and someone from Singapore. That's two, I guess.

You forget all the nations in the UN who voted against US sanctions on Cuba. Most people aren't as ideologically fundamentalist as you.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: China- Uprisings Erupting Against CCP Across China
Reply #229 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 11:48am

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 10:21am:

Quote:

A totalitarian regime's primary motivations are: the accumulation of power without constraint or accountability, the complete subjugation of the people it controls, and then, of course, there's money, although that is often more in the minds of regime's apparatchiks than the regime's leader himself.

Maybe so, though Lenin's original motivation was undoubtedly idealistic. And as I already told you, dummy: the love of money is the sin of all men....

What a surprise, not! - you know little about Lenin.

Read something about Lenin. His quotes and actions are almost identical to Hitler's (but more like Hitler emulated Lenin's strategy), particularly his thoughts on indoctrinating children into the totalitarian cause- the exact strategy the CCP has deployed from Mao to Xi.

There is only one totalitarian playbook.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: China- Uprisings Erupting Against CCP Across China
Reply #230 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 11:53am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 11:29am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 10:21am:

Quote:

All totalitarian regimes are the same.

Your definition of 'totalitarian' is problematic (as expected from a fundamentalist ideologue); a Singapore ex-foreign minister (IIRC) refers to China as a "one party meritocracy".

Quote:

If you'd ever spoken to anyone who's ever lived under one, you'd know that.

China has moved on from the old Soviet regimes.

No, it hasn't. No totalitarian regime voluntarily moves away from totalitarianism.

China is a one party meritocracy, supported by the vast majority of the population who have experienced the world's fastest ever ascent from absolute poverty, to create the world's largest middle class...and the world's largest HS rail network accessible by all.

Quote:

Totalitarian regimes do not evolve, they collapse - via military defeat or economic collapse - If you'd ever spoken to those who've lived under one, you'd know that.

No doubt, but China is obviously not headed that way, the CCP is too pragmatic to fail in its goal of the rejuvenation of the Chinese nation. (That's why the CCP hasn't fought a war over Taiwan; pragmatism means the status quo is acceptable until such time as the PLA can tell the Pentagon where to go, without firing a shot...)

Quote:

The CCP is steering China towards the latter.

in your dreams.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: China- Uprisings Erupting Against CCP Across China
Reply #231 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 11:54am

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 11:42am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 11:09am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 10:21am:

Quote:

All totalitarian regimes are the same.

Your definition of 'totalitarian' is problematic (as expected from a fundamentalist ideologue); a Singapore ex-foreign minister (IIRC) refers to China as a "one party meritocracy".

So that's you and someone from Singapore. That's two, I guess.

You forget all the nations in the UN who voted against US sanctions on Cuba. Most people aren't as ideologically fundamentalist as you.

Cuba, eh!

Most people do not have a fetish for totalitarian strongmen, but when they do they defend them like a lover.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: China- Uprisings Erupting Against CCP Across China
Reply #232 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 12:00pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 11:53am:

Quote:

No, it hasn't. No totalitarian regime voluntarily moves away from totalitarianism.

China is a one party meritocracy, supported by the vast majority of the population who have experienced the world's fastest ever ascent from absolute poverty, to create the world's largest middle class...and the world's largest HS rail network accessible by all.

Quote:

Totalitarian regimes do not evolve, they collapse - via military defeat or economic collapse - If you'd ever spoken to those who've lived under one, you'd know that.

No doubt, but China is obviously not headed that way, the CCP is too pragmatic to fail in its goal of the rejuvenation of the Chinese nation. (That's why the CCP hasn't fought a war over Taiwan; pragmatism means the status quo is acceptable until such time as the PLA can tell the Pentagon where to go, without firing a shot...)

Quote:

The CCP is steering China towards the latter.

in your dreams.

The CCP is a brutal totalitarian entity. Mao never denied it and Xi, similar to you with Xi, has a fetish for Mao - the Xi family's persecutor, Jinping clearly developed his filial fetish at a young age.

His plan for China is a return to Maoism. He has ended presidential limits and can now rule by decree having acquired absolute and unconstrained power not seen since Mao and Deng.

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freediver

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Re: China- Uprisings Erupting Against CCP Across China
Reply #233 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 12:01pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 10:32am:

freediver wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 8:28am:

Quote:

Governance to promote collective well-being, as opposed to governance to promote individual "freedom"

Governments of free countries cannot starve 50 million of their citizens to death by trying to feed them equally. Yet governance to promote collective well-being can, apparently.

Past failures are no evidence of future successes (to reverse the investment mantra...)

So..achieving collective well-being remains the finest of motivations.

Quote:

I think Meister is right. This must be some kind of fetish you have for the CCP, or it's current leader.

ha ha ... he didn't develop his "homo-erotic" argument, perhaps you can assist him....

Ah. So we should not take the 50 million people killed by the CCP as evidence that they will be successful in the future? Seems like sensible advice, given that they were not made to learn anything from it, other than that they can literally get away with anything.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: China- Uprisings Erupting Against CCP Across China
Reply #234 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 12:06pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 11:48am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 10:21am:

Quote:

A totalitarian regime's primary motivations are: the accumulation of power without constraint or accountability, the complete subjugation of the people it controls, and then, of course, there's money, although that is often more in the minds of regime's apparatchiks than the regime's leader himself.

Maybe so, though Lenin's original motivation was undoubtedly idealistic. And as I already told you, dummy: the love of money is the sin of all men....

What a surprise, not! - you know little about Lenin.

Read something about Lenin. His quotes and actions are almost identical to Hitler's

Yet his motivation was freeing the Russian peasants from the Tsarist yoke; and indeed the "socialist" part of Hitler's ideology transformed Germany's infrastructure with remarkable speed (that is, via government funding of desired national infrastructure)

Quote:

(but more like Hitler emulated Lenin's strategy), particularly his thoughts on indoctrinating children into the totalitarian cause- the exact strategy the CCP has deployed from Mao to Xi.

Children do need to be taught about the delusion of "natural individual rights"...and yet civics education is almost non -existent in the West.

Quote:

There is only one totalitarian playbook.

Wrong: implemenation of the Marxist vision for a better world can take many forms, from Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, to the present CCP. The CCP may well be on the road to achieving a better world.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: China- Uprisings Erupting Against CCP Across China
Reply #235 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 12:12pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 11:54am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 11:42am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 11:09am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 10:21am:

Quote:

All totalitarian regimes are the same.

Your definition of 'totalitarian' is problematic (as expected from a fundamentalist ideologue); a Singapore ex-foreign minister (IIRC) refers to China as a "one party meritocracy".

So that's you and someone from Singapore. That's two, I guess.

You forget all the nations in the UN who voted against US sanctions on Cuba. Most people aren't as ideologically fundamentalist as you.

Cuba, eh!

Most people do not have a fetish for totalitarian strongmen, but when they do they defend them like a lover.

??

The entire UNGA membership - except 2 - voted against continuing US sanctions on 'communist' Cuba, simply because the world is not captured by your fundamentalist fake "freedom values" /'winner takes all' economic ideology.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: China- Uprisings Erupting Against CCP Across China
Reply #236 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 12:13pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 12:06pm:

Quote:

What a surprise, not! - you know little about Lenin.

Read something about Lenin. His quotes and actions are almost identical to Hitler's

Yet his motivation was freeing the Russian peasants from the Tsarist yoke; and indeed the "socialist" part of Hitler's ideology transformed Germany's infrastructure with remarkable speed (that is, via government funding of desired national infrastructure)

Quote:

(but more like Hitler emulated Lenin's strategy), particularly his thoughts on indoctrinating children into the totalitarian cause- the exact strategy the CCP has deployed from Mao to Xi.

Children do need to be taught about the delusion of "natural individual rights"...and yet civics education is almost non -existent in the West.

Quote:

There is only one totalitarian playbook.

Wrong: implemenation of the Marxist vision for a better world can take many forms, from Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, to the present CCP. The CCP may well be on the road to achieving a better world.

Lenin, and Stalin after him, murdered experienced farmers (branded kulaks) which led directly to famine when it was clear the peasants had no idea about running a farm. Mao emulated Lenin and Marx in this regard with the same result.

Chinese children are indoctrinated to put the CCP above everything including family - the mantra drummed into them from five - 'There is no China without the CCP', again emulating Lenin, Stalin, Hitler and Mao.

There is only one totalitarian playbook.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: China- Uprisings Erupting Against CCP Across China
Reply #237 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 12:19pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 12:12pm:

Quote:

Cuba, eh!

Most people do not have a fetish for totalitarian strongmen, but when they do they defend them like a lover.

??
The entire UNGA membership - except 2 - voted against continuing US sanctions on 'communist' Cuba, simply because the world is not captured by your fundamentalist fake "freedom values" /'winner takes all' economic ideology.

We could talk about Stalin's carving off a piece of Finland (when he couldn't defeat the entire Finnish nation) if you like, or his invasion of Poland in 1939, or his land grab of eastern Europe or Mao's invasion of Tibet - or we could stay with the CCP's rape of China.

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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 12829 Gender:	Re: China- Uprisings Erupting Against CCP Across China Reply #238 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 12:22pm thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 10:32am: ha ha ... he didn't develop his "homo-erotic" argument, perhaps you can assist him.... You're no different to those men who developed the same fetish from afar for Hitler and Stalin.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49224 At my desk.	Re: China- Uprisings Erupting Against CCP Across China Reply #239 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 12:30pm TGD, does your fetish for the CCP stem from something other than homo-eroticism?
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