Australian Politics Forum - The Voice Kool-Aid

Frank

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Re: The Voice Kool-Aid
Reply #180 - Dec 18^th, 2022 at 3:01pm

Boris wrote on Dec 18^th, 2022 at 1:40pm:

Anything the No campaign says can and will be construed as “misinformation”. We have seen this already with the appalling attacks by Noel Pearson and Marcia Langton’s on Jacinta Price. Brace for much more of that — and wonder, too, if the bile and attempts at character assassination are a foretaste of an empowered Voice?

To make an informed self-determination at the referendum’s ballot box, ordinary Australians must have full access to both sides of the argument, pro and con, which the Albanese government has already legislated to ensure this won’t happen. Meanwhile, Australians are subjected to a daily and massive pro-Yes propaganda barrage by the taxpayer-funded ABC and SBS. If Australians prove slow on the uptake, allow ourselves to be persuaded by the government’s nakedly rigged ‘information’ offensive and vote Yes despite changes to the Constitution having yet to be revealed, it will be too late!

Labor and their confident, conceited acolytes would have us believe that support for the Yes vote is a lay down misère. It is beholden upon the rest of us — those who care about Australia as a whole rather than advancing the narrow interests of one group only — to contest the creation of a separate and sovereign Aboriginal nation on the Australian continent, for that is where the ‘Voice’ will take us. Once embedded in the Constitution, such an internal ‘sovereign nation’ will be impossible to dismantle. Despite Albanese &Co’s efforts to promote one side of the debate and suppress the other, this is the threat and the message all Australians must hear.

I have no doubt that, already, courageous and ingenious legal minds both are conceiving bases upon which to litigate the many legal and cultural implications of the voice. The voice, or a member of it, is almost certain to argue in the courts that a member of the executive government, in executing a parliamentary enactment of a representation of the voice, took into account an irrelevant consideration, or failed to take into account a relevant one, or made a decision that no reasonable person could make, shifting indicia relied upon in almost every challenge brought to the actions of government.
...
A voice in any form, in my view, will give rise to many arguments and division, legal and otherwise.

If the body is to be an elected body, how is the franchise for it to be determined, regionally (as so far suggested), linguistically perhaps, or some other way? Will voter registration be compulsory? Will voting itself be compulsory? Will an expended Electoral Commission oversee elections to the voice? Will the High Court or some other court be a Court of Disputed Returns? Will the voice need not only its own extensive premises in Canberra and in many other places but also its own executive and other staff to assist it? Will it have a cabinet? Is there not a real chance that it will be infiltrated by the established political parties and become more an instrument of a predominant political party in the same way as Sir Alfred Deakin predicted the progression of the Senate as a “state house” to a battleground for centralised political parties with scant regard for the states the senators nominally represent?

What is proposed seems, whether constitutionally entrenched or not, is in substance a kind of a separate parliament. The hallmark of a parliament is its capacity to raise taxes and, one hopes, to expend them wisely. If the parliament does not do that, then the paying public gets its opportunity to express its disapproval at the next election.

There is no suggestion that the voice will be self-funding. It will have no direct accountability to its financiers, the taxpayers. The voice can be seen as powerful, costly and ultimately unaccountable to its financiers.

It is, I think, arguable that the members of the voice, and all those who may be employed in carrying out its functions, of which I think there will be many, funded as they will be by the commonwealth, may be “officers” of the commonwealth within the meaning of s 75(v) of the Constitution. That section enables certain aggrieved peoples to apply to the High Court for constitutional writs against such “officers”.

There is little clarity about what is proposed.
...

Like senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price and many other Australians, including many, many lawyers of goodwill, I do not think the voice is the way.

Ian Callinan was a justice of the High Court of Australia from 1998 to 2007.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Voice Kool-Aid
Reply #181 - Dec 18^th, 2022 at 11:21pm

Frank wrote on Dec 18^th, 2022 at 3:01pm:

Boris wrote on Dec 18^th, 2022 at 1:40pm:

Anything the No campaign says can and will be construed as “misinformation”. We have seen this already with the appalling attacks by Noel Pearson and Marcia Langton’s on Jacinta Price. Brace for much more of that — and wonder, too, if the bile and attempts at character assassination are a foretaste of an empowered Voice?

To make an informed self-determination at the referendum’s ballot box, ordinary Australians must have full access to both sides of the argument, pro and con, which the Albanese government has already legislated to ensure this won’t happen. Meanwhile, Australians are subjected to a daily and massive pro-Yes propaganda barrage by the taxpayer-funded ABC and SBS. If Australians prove slow on the uptake, allow ourselves to be persuaded by the government’s nakedly rigged ‘information’ offensive and vote Yes despite changes to the Constitution having yet to be revealed, it will be too late!

Labor and their confident, conceited acolytes would have us believe that support for the Yes vote is a lay down misère. It is beholden upon the rest of us — those who care about Australia as a whole rather than advancing the narrow interests of one group only — to contest the creation of a separate and sovereign Aboriginal nation on the Australian continent, for that is where the ‘Voice’ will take us. Once embedded in the Constitution, such an internal ‘sovereign nation’ will be impossible to dismantle. Despite Albanese &Co’s efforts to promote one side of the debate and suppress the other, this is the threat and the message all Australians must hear.

I have no doubt that, already, courageous and ingenious legal minds both are conceiving bases upon which to litigate the many legal and cultural implications of the voice. The voice, or a member of it, is almost certain to argue in the courts that a member of the executive government, in executing a parliamentary enactment of a representation of the voice, took into account an irrelevant consideration, or failed to take into account a relevant one, or made a decision that no reasonable person could make, shifting indicia relied upon in almost every challenge brought to the actions of government.
...
A voice in any form, in my view, will give rise to many arguments and division, legal and otherwise.

If the body is to be an elected body, how is the franchise for it to be determined, regionally (as so far suggested), linguistically perhaps, or some other way? Will voter registration be compulsory? Will voting itself be compulsory? Will an expended Electoral Commission oversee elections to the voice? Will the High Court or some other court be a Court of Disputed Returns? Will the voice need not only its own extensive premises in Canberra and in many other places but also its own executive and other staff to assist it? Will it have a cabinet? Is there not a real chance that it will be infiltrated by the established political parties and become more an instrument of a predominant political party in the same way as Sir Alfred Deakin predicted the progression of the Senate as a “state house” to a battleground for centralised political parties with scant regard for the states the senators nominally represent?

What is proposed seems, whether constitutionally entrenched or not, is in substance a kind of a separate parliament. The hallmark of a parliament is its capacity to raise taxes and, one hopes, to expend them wisely. If the parliament does not do that, then the paying public gets its opportunity to express its disapproval at the next election.

There is no suggestion that the voice will be self-funding. It will have no direct accountability to its financiers, the taxpayers. The voice can be seen as powerful, costly and ultimately unaccountable to its financiers.

It is, I think, arguable that the members of the voice, and all those who may be employed in carrying out its functions, of which I think there will be many, funded as they will be by the commonwealth, may be “officers” of the commonwealth within the meaning of s 75(v) of the Constitution. That section enables certain aggrieved peoples to apply to the High Court for constitutional writs against such “officers”.

There is little clarity about what is proposed.
...

Like senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price and many other Australians, including many, many lawyers of goodwill, I do not think the voice is the way.

Ian Callinan was a justice of the High Court of Australia from 1998 to 2007.

Callanan was a conservative; I agree with his views on the voice, but he doesn't comment on how to close the gap; he is likely imbibed in orthodox economics.

I also agree with his comment on the Australian Senate - which Keating called "unrepresentative swill"...., but I prefer Whitlam's view of reform of the federation - get rid of the states.

The joys of political philosophy, the bases of which you don't want to examine.....

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Gnads

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Re: The Voice Kool-Aid
Reply #182 - Dec 19^th, 2022 at 6:51am

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 18^th, 2022 at 11:21pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 18^th, 2022 at 3:01pm:

Boris wrote on Dec 18^th, 2022 at 1:40pm:

Anything the No campaign says can and will be construed as “misinformation”. We have seen this already with the appalling attacks by Noel Pearson and Marcia Langton’s on Jacinta Price. Brace for much more of that — and wonder, too, if the bile and attempts at character assassination are a foretaste of an empowered Voice?

To make an informed self-determination at the referendum’s ballot box, ordinary Australians must have full access to both sides of the argument, pro and con, which the Albanese government has already legislated to ensure this won’t happen. Meanwhile, Australians are subjected to a daily and massive pro-Yes propaganda barrage by the taxpayer-funded ABC and SBS. If Australians prove slow on the uptake, allow ourselves to be persuaded by the government’s nakedly rigged ‘information’ offensive and vote Yes despite changes to the Constitution having yet to be revealed, it will be too late!

Labor and their confident, conceited acolytes would have us believe that support for the Yes vote is a lay down misère. It is beholden upon the rest of us — those who care about Australia as a whole rather than advancing the narrow interests of one group only — to contest the creation of a separate and sovereign Aboriginal nation on the Australian continent, for that is where the ‘Voice’ will take us. Once embedded in the Constitution, such an internal ‘sovereign nation’ will be impossible to dismantle. Despite Albanese &Co’s efforts to promote one side of the debate and suppress the other, this is the threat and the message all Australians must hear.

I have no doubt that, already, courageous and ingenious legal minds both are conceiving bases upon which to litigate the many legal and cultural implications of the voice. The voice, or a member of it, is almost certain to argue in the courts that a member of the executive government, in executing a parliamentary enactment of a representation of the voice, took into account an irrelevant consideration, or failed to take into account a relevant one, or made a decision that no reasonable person could make, shifting indicia relied upon in almost every challenge brought to the actions of government.
...
A voice in any form, in my view, will give rise to many arguments and division, legal and otherwise.

If the body is to be an elected body, how is the franchise for it to be determined, regionally (as so far suggested), linguistically perhaps, or some other way? Will voter registration be compulsory? Will voting itself be compulsory? Will an expended Electoral Commission oversee elections to the voice? Will the High Court or some other court be a Court of Disputed Returns? Will the voice need not only its own extensive premises in Canberra and in many other places but also its own executive and other staff to assist it? Will it have a cabinet? Is there not a real chance that it will be infiltrated by the established political parties and become more an instrument of a predominant political party in the same way as Sir Alfred Deakin predicted the progression of the Senate as a “state house” to a battleground for centralised political parties with scant regard for the states the senators nominally represent?

What is proposed seems, whether constitutionally entrenched or not, is in substance a kind of a separate parliament. The hallmark of a parliament is its capacity to raise taxes and, one hopes, to expend them wisely. If the parliament does not do that, then the paying public gets its opportunity to express its disapproval at the next election.

There is no suggestion that the voice will be self-funding. It will have no direct accountability to its financiers, the taxpayers. The voice can be seen as powerful, costly and ultimately unaccountable to its financiers.

It is, I think, arguable that the members of the voice, and all those who may be employed in carrying out its functions, of which I think there will be many, funded as they will be by the commonwealth, may be “officers” of the commonwealth within the meaning of s 75(v) of the Constitution. That section enables certain aggrieved peoples to apply to the High Court for constitutional writs against such “officers”.

There is little clarity about what is proposed.
...

Like senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price and many other Australians, including many, many lawyers of goodwill, I do not think the voice is the way.

Ian Callinan was a justice of the High Court of Australia from 1998 to 2007.

Callanan was a conservative; I agree with his views on the voice, but he doesn't comment on how to close the gap; he is likely imbibed in orthodox economics.

I also agree with his comment on the Australian Senate - which Keating called "unrepresentative swill"...., but I prefer Whitlam's view of reform of the federation - get rid of the states.

The joys of political philosophy, the bases of which you don't want to examine.....

Do you ever listen to yourself? Roll Eyes

Any "gap" you speak of is self inflicted.

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: The Voice Kool-Aid
Reply #183 - Dec 19^th, 2022 at 8:24am

Still on these 'gaps' when the issue here is whether or not to kill our own country for no real benefit ...... and why and why not....

Cracked record.......

I'd say there is zero clarity about what is being proposed.....

No wonder governments respective followed the immigration policies they did and do ... they set out to destroy the power base of the Australian voter along with his earning capacity.... the purest insanity in a so-called democracy... with more than 50% of 'voters' not born here or first generation and often living in English-less ghettoes and enclaves - we essentially suffer a deadhead vote with zero idea of this nation and the way it works and once worked and many of them even vote against it because it is not like 'home' in its religion and 'culture' .... a house divided and divided and divided against itself by government and official policy cannot stand...

Power To The People Right NOW!! Plebiscites NOW! Turn Back the Tides And Drain The Swamps!!

Wow - people jump on a rubber duckie and try to cross the English Channel in a storm and they are now labeled 'immigrants'......meanwhile Britain is no longer an Anglo-Christian country ..... when The Horror comes and the world economy collapses and the necessary imported supplies are cut off etc, the villages will be as bare as potato famined Ireland's were and corpses will line the roads and streams.... the crows will feast well .................

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« Last Edit: Dec 19^th, 2022 at 8:40am by Grappler Deep State Feller »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Boris Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4093 Gender:	Re: The Voice Kool-Aid Reply #184 - Dec 19^th, 2022 at 8:32am The Gap will never be closed People are what they are
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KangAnon

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Re: The Voice Kool-Aid
Reply #185 - Dec 19^th, 2022 at 10:47am

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Dec 17^th, 2022 at 3:13pm:

KangAnon wrote on Dec 17^th, 2022 at 2:48pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Dec 17^th, 2022 at 2:27pm:

KangAnon wrote on Dec 17^th, 2022 at 1:47pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Dec 17^th, 2022 at 11:22am:

"But the fact that you see it perfectly normal and accurate to claim this is representative of all Indigenous Australians is what people are talking about, and highlighting in your behaviour."

Nobody says that

Boris wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 8:41am:

KangAnon wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 8:30am:

In case there has been some miscommunication, you're saying that ALL Indigenous Australians do these things you claim, not just their bad elements like in any community?

Yes

a. he's talking about a predisposition to anti-social norms as clearly demonstrated in certain cultural groups.

b. he's giving you back the same kind of sweeping generalisation that you (and others here) employ as one of your basic tools of wordfare.

c. he is successfully removing the piste from you ...

You lot seem to do that all the time...

"Oh he's just taking the piss"

"Oh I was just joking about using the army to kill 90% of indigenous australians because may 10% are worth saving"

Do you really think that defense works?

Should I insult you, or invite you to be painfully killed somehow, but the just claim I was being sarcastic or was just kidding or taking the piss?

And if you click on the quote links and see the full context, you'll see he's not talking about social norms, he's accusing them all of being child rapists and murderers.

Of course it's parody - nobody would seriously entertain the idea of the army shooting 90% of them!! Probably 20% would suffice.... maybe 30-40% at a pinch..

So you want us to take your opinions on the matter as holding any merit whatsoever when you joke about killing nearly all Indigenous Australians?

How can you expect to be taken seriously?

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Grappler Deep State Feller

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Re: The Voice Kool-Aid
Reply #186 - Dec 19^th, 2022 at 11:16am

How is 20% - at a pinch 30-40% = Most? It's a minority!

I'm serious when I'm serious - you need to lighten up, dude. It's a serious problem with the young toxified mind these days..... nothing in life is black and white...

There's a name for it - some title someone put to the phenomenon... the comparative lack of real knowledge guarantees the solidity of the opinion held..

Jokes aside - I offered them either their own Homeland to kill and rape and maim one another at whim without any interference or benefits from Whitey or a block of land for each family and nothing more - a far better deal than any young person gets these days starting out .. at least with a Homeland we wouldn't have to put up with their shenanigans every damned day... they could do things their tribal way and see how that gets on - you know - robbing someone's home etc.... can't imagine the Elders Unchained would take too kindly to that... any who wanted out could apply for Australian citizenship again, cross through the Wall, and get what all the imports should be getting - provisional citizenship on good behaviour for ten years... shape up or ship out... no crimes no nothing....

I'm not the one, the neo-Fascist Supremacist, making all the demands here to suit the Bolshevik (minority) groups ..... I'm the one saying NO..... without fear or favour..

The answer is NO!

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KangAnon

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Re: The Voice Kool-Aid
Reply #187 - Dec 19^th, 2022 at 11:19am

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Dec 19^th, 2022 at 11:16am:

KangAnon wrote on Dec 19^th, 2022 at 10:47am:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Dec 17^th, 2022 at 3:13pm:

KangAnon wrote on Dec 17^th, 2022 at 2:48pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Dec 17^th, 2022 at 2:27pm:

KangAnon wrote on Dec 17^th, 2022 at 1:47pm:

Grappler Deep State Feller wrote on Dec 17^th, 2022 at 11:22am:

"But the fact that you see it perfectly normal and accurate to claim this is representative of all Indigenous Australians is what people are talking about, and highlighting in your behaviour."

Nobody says that

Boris wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 8:41am:

KangAnon wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 8:30am:

In case there has been some miscommunication, you're saying that ALL Indigenous Australians do these things you claim, not just their bad elements like in any community?

Yes

a. he's talking about a predisposition to anti-social norms as clearly demonstrated in certain cultural groups.

b. he's giving you back the same kind of sweeping generalisation that you (and others here) employ as one of your basic tools of wordfare.

c. he is successfully removing the piste from you ...

You lot seem to do that all the time...

"Oh he's just taking the piss"

"Oh I was just joking about using the army to kill 90% of indigenous australians because may 10% are worth saving"

Do you really think that defense works?

Should I insult you, or invite you to be painfully killed somehow, but the just claim I was being sarcastic or was just kidding or taking the piss?

And if you click on the quote links and see the full context, you'll see he's not talking about social norms, he's accusing them all of being child rapists and murderers.

Of course it's parody - nobody would seriously entertain the idea of the army shooting 90% of them!! Probably 20% would suffice.... maybe 30-40% at a pinch..

So you want us to take your opinions on the matter as holding any merit whatsoever when you joke about killing nearly all Indigenous Australians?

How can you expect to be taken seriously?

How is 20% - at a pinch 30-40% = Most? It's a minority!

I'm serious when I'm serious - you need to lighten up, dude.

You want me to lighten up when you're joking about genocide?

How about you kill yourself, and 90% of your family? Murder-suicide, do us all a favour, and take Boris out with you too.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Voice Kool-Aid
Reply #188 - Dec 19^th, 2022 at 11:30am

Gnads wrote on Dec 19^th, 2022 at 6:51am:

Do you ever listen to yourself? Roll Eyes

Any "gap" you speak of is self inflicted.

This is the crux of the matter.

http://pavlina-tcherneva.net/the-case-for-a-job-guarantee/

"One of the most enduring ideas in economics is that unemployment is both unavoidable and necessary for the smooth functioning of the economy. This assumption has provided cover for the devastating social and economic costs of job insecurity. It is also false'.

Not "self-inflicted", but the consequence of systemic failure... "necessary for the smooth functioning of the economy"... aka the NAIRU.

You blind free market Thatcherites are THE problem.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Voice Kool-Aid
Reply #189 - Dec 19^th, 2022 at 11:34am

Boris wrote on Dec 19^th, 2022 at 8:32am:

The Gap will never be closed

People are what they are

Sheer ignorance of the current systemic economic dysfunction:

http://pavlina-tcherneva.net/the-case-for-a-job-guarantee/

"One of the most enduring ideas in economics is that unemployment is both unavoidable and necessary for the smooth functioning of the economy. This assumption has provided cover for the devastating social and economic costs of job insecurity. It is also false".

People are NOT "what they are", but what the system forces them to be, the consequence of systemic failure... "necessary for the smooth functioning of the economy"... aka the NAIRU.

You blind free market Thatcherites are THE problem.

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Boris Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4093 Gender:	Re: The Voice Kool-Aid Reply #190 - Dec 19^th, 2022 at 11:35am Boris wrote on Dec 19^th, 2022 at 8:32am: The Gap will never be closed People are what they are You are your DNA
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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 13190 Gender:	Re: The Voice Kool-Aid Reply #191 - Dec 19^th, 2022 at 11:39am Boris wrote on Dec 19^th, 2022 at 11:35am: Boris wrote on Dec 19^th, 2022 at 8:32am: The Gap will never be closed People are what they are You are your DNA The next recession with mass unemployment will blow that theory sky high....
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Boris Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4093 Gender:	Re: The Voice Kool-Aid Reply #192 - Dec 19^th, 2022 at 11:43am Darwin has a theory It will soon be tested
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Boris

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Re: The Voice Kool-Aid
Reply #193 - Dec 19^th, 2022 at 11:55am

https://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/health/aboriginal-sexual-abus...

The rates are off the scale

So not like other people

Available data indicate that Indigenous people are 15 to 20 times more likely than non-Indigenous people to commit violent offences.

Selected statistics

15% Percentage of reported sexual offence incidents in Australia which go to court.

12% Reoffending rate for sexual offences. This percentage drops to less than 5% if offenders enter a special program.

30..50% Estimated proportion of sexually abused children in Australia where the perpetrator was 18 years or younger.

7 Times an Aboriginal child in 2009 is more likely to be sexually abused than a non-Aboriginal child.

6 Times an Aboriginal woman in 2012 is more likely to be sexually abused than a non-Aboriginal woman.

14% Proportion of children on South Australian Aṉangu, Pitjantjatjara and Yankunytjatjara (APY) Aboriginal lands who have been sexually abused. Same rate for all of SA population: 0.12%.

42% Proportion of perpetrators of sexual abuse towards Aboriginal women who are non-Aboriginal; who are Aboriginal: 41%; who are both (e.g. pack rapes): 17%

Source: Aboriginal sexual abuse - Creative Spirits, retrieved from https://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/health/aboriginal-sexual-abuse

Sexual abuse in Aboriginal communities
A sad chapter of Aboriginal health is the sexual health and abuse, especially of children. Issues like stolen wages and the governmental removal of children (Stolen Generations) lead to hopelessness and cultural dissociation.

This in turn leads to inappropriately high alcohol consumption or petrol sniffing which causes violence and in the worst cases sexual abuse of children within some Aboriginal communities.

Sometimes children abuse other children because they have been watching porn or simply are bored [6]. Children as young as 6 have been observed performing oral sex on each other. "They say they're just playing, without having any sense that it's wrong." [7]

Aboriginal community and family structures that once protected children from sexual abuse are breaking down.

Rates of sexual assault among Aboriginal children in 2012 were between 2 and 4 times higher than those for non-Aboriginal children in NSW, Queensland, South Australia and the Northern Territory [8], the highest rates being in NSW [9].

The Breaking the Silence report of the Aboriginal Sexual Assault Taskforce (ACSAT) interviewed more than 300 Aboriginal people in NSW in 2007 and found that not one could name a family unaffected by the scourge of child sexual assault[7]. However, the government released no funding to implement the report's recommendations.

Some victims are under the age of 10. Young girls are reported as accepting that abuse was inevitable and resistance was futile [4]. Children trade sex for money, drugs, alcohol or petrol. Reports about sexual abuse in communities make "harrowing reading".

As a consequence sexually transmitted diseases have increased sharply. It comes to no surprise that Aboriginal children are almost 7 times more likely to self-harm, the second most common cause of death from external injury [8].

An inquiry found that Aboriginal women had been threatened by men if they gave evidence about child sex abuse [4], which led to no victims coming forward.

Professor Judy Atkins, an expert on trauma and abuse, says non-Aboriginal pedophiles show pornography to young Aboriginal males and give them alcohol on condition they bring young children to viewings [10]. "Some of them choose to work in [Aboriginal] communities because they know they have access to kids," she says. This happens also in rural towns.

Source: Aboriginal sexual abuse - Creative Spirits, retrieved from https://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/health/aboriginal-sexual-abuse

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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 13190 Gender:	Re: The Voice Kool-Aid Reply #194 - Dec 19^th, 2022 at 11:55am Boris wrote on Dec 19^th, 2022 at 11:43am: Darwin has a theory It will soon be tested ..in the way the Great Depression was "solved" - in WW2. Darwin didn't have anything to do with it. Now we are in the age of MAD....poor Darwin...
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