Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary (Read 1182 times)
Bias_2012
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 10673
Gender: male
End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Dec 10th, 2022 at 1:09am
 
Hundreds of Vietnam War era conscripts will gather at the Melbourne Shrine of Remembrance Saturday 10 December, to celebrate the ending of conscription in 1972


It was a hellish time for 20 year old males in the 60s, and for many, it's still a hellish time even now trying to deal mentally with what the despot politicians dished out to them ... and many never got their jobs back after their two years of enslavement, even though they were told they could get them back. Lives were ruined, relationships fell apart, families grieved for lost conscripted sons in the war. Failing to register meant two years in a concrete cell, and jails weren't hotels like they are today

The politicians, the courts and the public were quite indifferent to the destroyed lives of thousands of young men. We haven't forgotten, I was one also

I can't make it to Melbourne, but I wish them well on the day

A bit from an email I received from NashoFairGo....


"Saturday looks like being a great day for us. We have men coming from as far as Queensland and WA to be with us. We also have members of the Vietnam Veterans groups joining us. It's going to be a wonderful day. Please join us."



Future generations must make sure conscription never happens again in Australia. Politicians on all sides, no matter how well intentioned, just simply can't be trusted, neither can the general public ... the thousands of conscripts who weren't selected to go to Vietnam, got absolutely nothing after discharge and many were left unemployed. For Vietnam Veterans, it was not until 1987 that they had their home coming parade, no one would welcome them home in the 14 years before that, from the time Australia pulled out of the hell hole. I lost all respect and faith in the Parliament and general public because of that ... you don't deserve a defense force if you ignore a home coming for that length of time, you welcome them home as soon as they get home



Back to top
 

Our Lives Are Governed By The Feast & Famine Variable
 
IP Logged
 
AusGeoff
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Sage of Gippsland

Posts: 5999
Victoria
Gender: male
Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Reply #1 - Dec 10th, 2022 at 2:51am
 
Mate, thanks for posting this heads up.      Smiley

The site...

NASHO FAIR GO.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Bias_2012
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 10673
Gender: male
Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Reply #2 - Dec 10th, 2022 at 11:32am
 
The Shrine of Remembrance in Melbourne ... where ex-conscripts will gather today to celebrate the end of conscription

I believe Channel 7 will be covering the event

It should be the hope of everyone that no politicians turn up at this solemn event, except if they desire to express a very sincere apology for threatening young civilian laborers and tradesman with jail time in the 1960s. We were trying to get ahead in life just like everyone else, when suddenly, the political Mafia in Canberra decided that they will severely punish thousands of young men whose birth dates happened to correspond with numbers on stupid little marbles in a stupid spinning barrel, just like they were playing with a Christmas toy when they were infants ... the "infant" never left them

...
Back to top
 

Our Lives Are Governed By The Feast & Famine Variable
 
IP Logged
 
Sophia
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 8267
Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Reply #3 - Dec 10th, 2022 at 1:07pm
 
Nice. Thank you for posting this.

I remember when 2 friends and I went to Dr. Jim Cairns moratorium to stop the conscriptions and end the Vietnam war… 1970 and 71…. We were still at high school and hitch hiked all the way in… (16 and 17 yrs of age barefoot and with flowers in our hair ).

There were a lot of Uni students there… was amazing.
Couple years later my bf was about to be conscripted to go to Nam and I was in dismay!
Let’s be conscientious objectors I would urge. But he would’ve been obedient and gone.
We all voted labor and the conscription ended a couple months before he was to go.
Whew… I never felt so relieved in my life!
He’s been my hubby now for over 46 years. Friends that were called to go… came back different. A certain dullness to their eyes… but never spoke of it.
And then depression would constantly rear its ugly head. They were young adults… seeing and doing things they should never have seen or done.

https://www.abc.net.au/education/abc-news-the-1970-moratorium-power-to-the-peopl...
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Bobby.
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 102482
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Reply #4 - Dec 10th, 2022 at 1:10pm
 
Conscription  should be illegal by a constitution
unless Australian soil is directly attacked.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
AusGeoff
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Sage of Gippsland

Posts: 5999
Victoria
Gender: male
Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Reply #5 - Dec 11th, 2022 at 4:45am
 
Conscripts names were selected by a ‘birthday ballot’, in which men were
randomly selected for national service by their date of birth.  Marbles marked
with a date were drawn out of a Tattersall’s lottery barrel.

The then leader of the opposition, Arthur Calwell, described this system as a
"lottery of death" with the Labor Party being morally opposed to conscription.

Between 1965 and 1972, more than 800,000 men registered. About 63,000
were conscripted and more than 19,000 served in Vietnam.

Between 1965 and 1972, 63,740 young Australians did National Service. Of
those, 15,381 served in Vietnam, where 200 died—45% of Australians KIA
while conscripts were "in country".

I'd suggest everybody read THIS book by Mark Dapin,
"The Nashos' War: Australia's National Servicemen and Vietnam".

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Bias_2012
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 10673
Gender: male
Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Reply #6 - Dec 11th, 2022 at 9:33am
 
Bobby. wrote on Dec 10th, 2022 at 1:10pm:
Conscription  should be illegal by a constitution
unless Australian soil is directly attacked.


Conscription should be illegal anyway, it's only enslavement by one lot of humans over another lot of humans

My neighbors in my village don't tell me what to do, and I don't tell them what to do

But if they ask, I jump in and help out. I've done that a few times already, and they've assisted me on occasions

My neighbors don't say: "We'll kick you in the head if you don't help us" ... which is what the Lib and Lab politicians imply when they want you to do something for them 

If Australia was directly attacked, we wouldn't need conscription, there'd be millions of multi-race multiculturals voluntarily rushing to meet the invaders, waving their national flags, led by Clare O'Neil and Penny Wong, scaring the contemptible invaders off ... how dare you?, they'd cry


Back to top
 

Our Lives Are Governed By The Feast & Famine Variable
 
IP Logged
 
Bobby.
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 102482
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Reply #7 - Dec 11th, 2022 at 10:03am
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Dec 11th, 2022 at 9:33am:
Bobby. wrote on Dec 10th, 2022 at 1:10pm:
Conscription  should be illegal by a constitution
unless Australian soil is directly attacked.


Conscription should be illegal anyway, it's only enslavement by one lot of humans over another lot of humans

My neighbors in my village don't tell me what to do, and I don't tell them what to do

But if they ask, I jump in and help out. I've done that a few times already, and they've assisted me on occasions

My neighbors don't say: "We'll kick you in the head if you don't help us" ... which is what the Lib and Lab politicians imply when they want you to do something for them 

If Australia was directly attacked, we wouldn't need conscription, there'd be millions of multi-race multiculturals voluntarily rushing to meet the invaders, waving their national flags, led by Clare O'Neil and Penny Wong, scaring the contemptible invaders off ... how dare you?, they'd cry




Conscription should be illegal anyway?

well it's not -
Greenland could divide North to South and they could conscript
Australians to go and fight in a war there supporting South Greenland.
The law is ridiculous.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Bias_2012
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 10673
Gender: male
Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Reply #8 - Dec 11th, 2022 at 11:11am
 
AusGeoff wrote on Dec 11th, 2022 at 4:45am:
Conscripts names were selected by a ‘birthday ballot’, in which men were
randomly selected for national service by their date of birth.  Marbles marked
with a date were drawn out of a Tattersall’s lottery barrel.

The then leader of the opposition, Arthur Calwell, described this system as a
"lottery of death" with the Labor Party being morally opposed to conscription.

Between 1965 and 1972, more than 800,000 men registered. About 63,000
were conscripted and more than 19,000 served in Vietnam.

Between 1965 and 1972, 63,740 young Australians did National Service. Of
those, 15,381 served in Vietnam, where 200 died—45% of Australians KIA
while conscripts were "in country".

I'd suggest everybody read THIS book by Mark Dapin,
"The Nashos' War: Australia's National Servicemen and Vietnam".



Thanks, I just ordered that paperback ... should be good reading. I'll know most of it, but it will be a good record to keep in the family for future reference, of how politicians can ruin young lives en masse

It's interesting, that now, the military does the opposite of everything they did in the 60s for us conscripts. Now, they encourage trade skills, have better pay, benefits and support ... it's still lacking, evidenced by the high suicide rate. But there was nothing for us in the 60s, we were broke all the time, we got no opportunities in our trades, no voluntary support from the Army after discharge, no compensation .. we simply got nothing

I should never have filled out the registration form, that was my big mistake. Filling out that form was giving consent to the two years enslavement. The Government's lawyers were laughing in our faces, I reckon

Instead, I should have left the big city and gone fruit picking or something, around the countryside for two years, cash in hand, it's what we all should have done

We also should remember that at the time of conscription, our police forces were as corrupt as any third-world country, taking bribes and with their code of silence. Organized crime was thriving, both in Australia and the US. A President and his brother were assassinated in the US. Mafia bosses in Australia and the US owned politicians. The illicit drug trade was well underway. Politicians visiting prostitutes. And a compulsory voting system to keep it all going

Yet here we were telling ourselves that we were better than any other countries around the world. We needed to look in the mirror before picking on a little South East Asian nation that was desperately fighting to try and not be like us. They taught us a lesson didn't they, because ever since then, we are striving to be like them





Back to top
 

Our Lives Are Governed By The Feast & Famine Variable
 
IP Logged
 
Belgarion
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 5395
Gender: male
Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Reply #9 - Dec 11th, 2022 at 11:45am
 
Conscription is a waste of time and resources. The ADF is a professional military force, not a daycare centre or work for the dole scheme.  There is no point wasting effort on people who don't want to be there, they are disruptive and bad for unit morale. Even if a conscript is willing to put the effort in, no sooner has he reached the point of being useful then he is gone and must be replaced.

Having said that, if there is going to be conscription then it's for everyone, no exceptions or exemptions.   If a person is unable to meet the physical or mental standards for military service then they can be found some other form of service, even picking up litter by the roadside if that's all they are capable of.
Back to top
 

"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 38511
Gender: male
Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Reply #10 - Dec 11th, 2022 at 11:53am
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Dec 10th, 2022 at 1:09am:
Hundreds of Vietnam War era conscripts will gather at the Melbourne Shrine of Remembrance Saturday 10 December, to celebrate the ending of conscription in 1972


It was a hellish time for 20 year old males in the 60s, and for many, it's still a hellish time even now trying to deal mentally with what the despot politicians dished out to them ... and many never got their jobs back after their two years of enslavement, even though they were told they could get them back. Lives were ruined, relationships fell apart, families grieved for lost conscripted sons in the war. Failing to register meant two years in a concrete cell, and jails weren't hotels like they are today

The politicians, the courts and the public were quite indifferent to the destroyed lives of thousands of young men. We haven't forgotten, I was one also

I can't make it to Melbourne, but I wish them well on the day

A bit from an email I received from NashoFairGo....


"Saturday looks like being a great day for us. We have men coming from as far as Queensland and WA to be with us. We also have members of the Vietnam Veterans groups joining us. It's going to be a wonderful day. Please join us."



Future generations must make sure conscription never happens again in Australia. Politicians on all sides, no matter how well intentioned, just simply can't be trusted, neither can the general public ... the thousands of conscripts who weren't selected to go to Vietnam, got absolutely nothing after discharge and many were left unemployed. For Vietnam Veterans, it was not until 1987 that they had their home coming parade, no one would welcome them home in the 14 years before that, from the time Australia pulled out of the hell hole. I lost all respect and faith in the Parliament and general public because of that ... you don't deserve a defense force if you ignore a home coming for that length of time, you welcome them home as soon as they get home





Were you sent to Vietnam?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Bias_2012
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 10673
Gender: male
Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Reply #11 - Dec 11th, 2022 at 12:19pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Dec 11th, 2022 at 10:03am:
Conscription should be illegal anyway?

well it's not -


It should be made illegal

It's only still legal because our Constitution hasn't been amended to make it illegal, it was an oversight back before Federation when the referendum for the adoption of the Constitution was voted on. It gave the Parliament free rein to do whatever they liked as far as Defense goes, and the people didn't properly realized that, their heads were full of: Hey! we're going to become a Nation, hooray, three cheers, hip hip ... why would they concern themselves with the "small print" in the devious minds of the Labs and Conservatives

The rest is history, conscription became a festering sore point with just about everyone, in subsequent decades, except for the ignoramous politicians

Our Constitution allows the politicians and the police to manhandle innocent young blokes to be taken away to be slaves

This is how they did it, and the Constitution, even today, still allows this roughing up ... it's legal

Watch the short video ... A school teacher, just trying to get on with his life

https://www.britishpathe.com/video/VLVA7IV5IB96Q1KGJ8QHNHLLPCP8Y-AUSTRALIA-NATIO...


Back to top
 

Our Lives Are Governed By The Feast & Famine Variable
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 38511
Gender: male
Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Reply #12 - Dec 11th, 2022 at 12:36pm
 
Aussie wrote on Dec 11th, 2022 at 11:53am:
Bias_2012 wrote on Dec 10th, 2022 at 1:09am:
Hundreds of Vietnam War era conscripts will gather at the Melbourne Shrine of Remembrance Saturday 10 December, to celebrate the ending of conscription in 1972


It was a hellish time for 20 year old males in the 60s, and for many, it's still a hellish time even now trying to deal mentally with what the despot politicians dished out to them ... and many never got their jobs back after their two years of enslavement, even though they were told they could get them back. Lives were ruined, relationships fell apart, families grieved for lost conscripted sons in the war. Failing to register meant two years in a concrete cell, and jails weren't hotels like they are today

The politicians, the courts and the public were quite indifferent to the destroyed lives of thousands of young men. We haven't forgotten, I was one also

I can't make it to Melbourne, but I wish them well on the day

A bit from an email I received from NashoFairGo....


"Saturday looks like being a great day for us. We have men coming from as far as Queensland and WA to be with us. We also have members of the Vietnam Veterans groups joining us. It's going to be a wonderful day. Please join us."



Future generations must make sure conscription never happens again in Australia. Politicians on all sides, no matter how well intentioned, just simply can't be trusted, neither can the general public ... the thousands of conscripts who weren't selected to go to Vietnam, got absolutely nothing after discharge and many were left unemployed. For Vietnam Veterans, it was not until 1987 that they had their home coming parade, no one would welcome them home in the 14 years before that, from the time Australia pulled out of the hell hole. I lost all respect and faith in the Parliament and general public because of that ... you don't deserve a defense force if you ignore a home coming for that length of time, you welcome them home as soon as they get home





Were you sent to Vietnam?


Bias?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Brian Ross
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Representative of me

Posts: 40720
Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Reply #13 - Dec 11th, 2022 at 12:43pm
 
Belgarion wrote on Dec 11th, 2022 at 11:45am:
Conscription is a waste of time and resources. The ADF is a professional military force, not a daycare centre or work for the dole scheme.  There is no point wasting effort on people who don't want to be there, they are disruptive and bad for unit morale. Even if a conscript is willing to put the effort in, no sooner has he reached the point of being useful then he is gone and must be replaced.


Agreed.  I served with many ex-Nashos when I was in the Army.  All were good soldiers who knew their stuff very well.  None where affected by their service in South Vietnam.

Quote:
Having said that, if there is going to be conscription then it's for everyone, no exceptions or exemptions.   If a person is unable to meet the physical or mental standards for military service then they can be found some other form of service, even picking up litter by the roadside if that's all they are capable of. 


In part, I agree with you.  There should be a few more exceptions, such as for conscientiousness objection, responsibilities, such as marriage and so on.  Generally, however most can serve.  No exceptions for gender, no exceptions for "race", or sexual orientation, etc.  If they are called on to defend the nation, that is what they have to do.

Back to top
 

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Bias_2012
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 10673
Gender: male
Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Reply #14 - Dec 11th, 2022 at 1:16pm
 
Belgarion wrote on Dec 11th, 2022 at 11:45am:
Conscription is a waste of time and resources. The ADF is a professional military force, not a daycare centre or work for the dole scheme.  There is no point wasting effort on people who don't want to be there, they are disruptive and bad for unit morale. Even if a conscript is willing to put the effort in, no sooner has he reached the point of being useful then he is gone and must be replaced.


That was certainly true in the sixties, we were left completely disillusioned by the Government's and the Military's lack of respect for us young tradesmen who'd just finished our apprenticeships. All the trade positions that were available were filled by the first intake, and how many intakes were there?, ten was it?


Belgarion wrote on Dec 11th, 2022 at 11:45am:
Having said that, if there is going to be conscription then it's for everyone, no exceptions or exemptions.   If a person is unable to meet the physical or mental standards for military service then they can be found some other form of service, even picking up litter by the roadside if that's all they are capable of.


I couldn't agree more, but I don't think it's conscription in that case, it's more like "Putting the Nation on a war footing", where the Government directs everything that goes on in the nation ... whatever you do, you end up being involved in, and working for the war effort ... everyone shares the responsibility

That should have happened during the Vietnam war, but as it was, most of the voting public couldn't have given a bugger about Vietnam, let alone know where it was. I looked up a world map, the politicians and the Army told us nothing about anything, we were just chattel with numbers, like so many Jews. They sheared our hair off down to the scalp, only to let us grow it back again close where it was before durrr. Do they do that shoring down to the scalp to recruits in today's military?



Back to top
 

Our Lives Are Governed By The Feast & Famine Variable
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print