Australian Politics Forum - End of Conscription

Bias_2012

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Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Reply #15 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 1:44pm

Aussie wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 12:36pm:

Aussie wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 11:53am:

Bias_2012 wrote on Dec 10^th, 2022 at 1:09am:

Hundreds of Vietnam War era conscripts will gather at the Melbourne Shrine of Remembrance Saturday 10 December, to celebrate the ending of conscription in 1972

It was a hellish time for 20 year old males in the 60s, and for many, it's still a hellish time even now trying to deal mentally with what the despot politicians dished out to them ... and many never got their jobs back after their two years of enslavement, even though they were told they could get them back. Lives were ruined, relationships fell apart, families grieved for lost conscripted sons in the war. Failing to register meant two years in a concrete cell, and jails weren't hotels like they are today

The politicians, the courts and the public were quite indifferent to the destroyed lives of thousands of young men. We haven't forgotten, I was one also

I can't make it to Melbourne, but I wish them well on the day

A bit from an email I received from NashoFairGo....

"Saturday looks like being a great day for us. We have men coming from as far as Queensland and WA to be with us. We also have members of the Vietnam Veterans groups joining us. It's going to be a wonderful day. Please join us."

Future generations must make sure conscription never happens again in Australia. Politicians on all sides, no matter how well intentioned, just simply can't be trusted, neither can the general public ... the thousands of conscripts who weren't selected to go to Vietnam, got absolutely nothing after discharge and many were left unemployed. For Vietnam Veterans, it was not until 1987 that they had their home coming parade, no one would welcome them home in the 14 years before that, from the time Australia pulled out of the hell hole. I lost all respect and faith in the Parliament and general public because of that ... you don't deserve a defense force if you ignore a home coming for that length of time, you welcome them home as soon as they get home

Were you sent to Vietnam?

Bias?

The gathering at the Melbourne Shrine and this thread are not about returned veterans. They're about celebrating the 50th Anniversary of the end to conscription in 1972, and about non-touring conscripts, of which I am one, campaigning for a Health Gold Card, and get-to-gethers. That's what NashoFairGo is about.

The thing to remember is that non-touring conscripts received absolutely no entitlements whatsoever for their two years service. Only in latter years did we get a White Card, but the Government made sure that the medical benefits under that White Card were only for injuries and medical issues that related to our time in the military, most of us had none, but by the time the White Card was available, most of those injuries and medical issues had dissipated, so the White Card ended up being pretty useless to us, perhaps ok for a few conscripts.

The Gold Card may be of more use but we'll have to see what conditions the Government puts on that, it might turn out to be useless to us as well, if we get it at all

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Aussie

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Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Reply #16 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 3:04pm

Bias_2012 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 1:44pm:

Aussie wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 12:36pm:

Aussie wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 11:53am:

Bias_2012 wrote on Dec 10^th, 2022 at 1:09am:

Hundreds of Vietnam War era conscripts will gather at the Melbourne Shrine of Remembrance Saturday 10 December, to celebrate the ending of conscription in 1972

It was a hellish time for 20 year old males in the 60s, and for many, it's still a hellish time even now trying to deal mentally with what the despot politicians dished out to them ... and many never got their jobs back after their two years of enslavement, even though they were told they could get them back. Lives were ruined, relationships fell apart, families grieved for lost conscripted sons in the war. Failing to register meant two years in a concrete cell, and jails weren't hotels like they are today

The politicians, the courts and the public were quite indifferent to the destroyed lives of thousands of young men. We haven't forgotten, I was one also

I can't make it to Melbourne, but I wish them well on the day

A bit from an email I received from NashoFairGo....

"Saturday looks like being a great day for us. We have men coming from as far as Queensland and WA to be with us. We also have members of the Vietnam Veterans groups joining us. It's going to be a wonderful day. Please join us."

Future generations must make sure conscription never happens again in Australia. Politicians on all sides, no matter how well intentioned, just simply can't be trusted, neither can the general public ... the thousands of conscripts who weren't selected to go to Vietnam, got absolutely nothing after discharge and many were left unemployed. For Vietnam Veterans, it was not until 1987 that they had their home coming parade, no one would welcome them home in the 14 years before that, from the time Australia pulled out of the hell hole. I lost all respect and faith in the Parliament and general public because of that ... you don't deserve a defense force if you ignore a home coming for that length of time, you welcome them home as soon as they get home

Were you sent to Vietnam?

Bias?

The gathering at the Melbourne Shrine and this thread are not about returned veterans. They're about celebrating the 50th Anniversary of the end to conscription in 1972, and about non-touring conscripts, of which I am one, campaigning for a Health Gold Card, and get-to-gethers. That's what NashoFairGo is about.

The thing to remember is that non-touring conscripts received absolutely no entitlements whatsoever for their two years service. Only in latter years did we get a White Card, but the Government made sure that the medical benefits under that White Card were only for injuries and medical issues that related to our time in the military, most of us had none, but by the time the White Card was available, most of those injuries and medical issues had dissipated, so the White Card ended up being pretty useless to us, perhaps ok for a few conscripts.

The Gold Card may be of more use but we'll have to see what conditions the Government puts on that, it might turn out to be useless to us as well, if we get it at all

Bugger off. You want the perks of serving (the Gold Card) but not once were you in any real jeapordy.

What health issues do you have because for a short time you were a grunt in Australia never having faced an enemy?

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Bias_2012

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Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Reply #17 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 3:25pm

Aussie wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 3:04pm:

Bugger off. You want the perks of serving (the Gold Card) but not once were you in any real jeapordy.

What health issues do you have because for a short time you were a grunt in Australia never having faced an enemy?

I don't want a Gold Card, I'm just helping the other guys on NashoFairGo to get it. But Keogh has the same hateful belligerent attitude towards non-touring conscripts as you do, so I doubt the others will ever receive one

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Bias_2012 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10673 Gender:	Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary Reply #18 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 3:33pm Conscripts who were not selected to tour Vietnam should have been discharged immediately and sent back to their jobs in civilian life
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Aussie

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Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Reply #19 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 4:31pm

Bias_2012 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 3:25pm:

Aussie wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 3:04pm:

Bugger off. You want the perks of serving (the Gold Card) but not once were you in any real jeapordy.

What health issues do you have because for a short time you were a grunt in Australia never having faced an enemy?

I don't want a Gold Card, I'm just helping the other guys on NashoFairGo to get it. But Keogh has the same hateful belligerent attitude towards non-touring conscripts as you do, so I doubt the others will ever receive one

Any bugger who is suffering from a disability arising from active overseas service gets a Golf Card. Just because you served is not enough, even if that was overseas.

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Aussie

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Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Reply #20 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 4:35pm

Bias_2012 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 3:33pm:

Conscripts who were not selected to tour Vietnam should have been discharged immediately and sent back to their jobs in civilian life

Only after they have served their term. This is a very mealy mouthed whinge.

I checked the Law at the time I was up for it, 1967/8, and the legislation which existed ensured that if I was conscripted, my employment had to be resumed if I wanted it.

Tradesman, (not employees) are not in the same boat.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Reply #21 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 5:12pm

Gold cards are for all after age 75.... until then they are based on level of disability proven.... I had a mate who was - believe it - 150% incapacitated and had to fight to get TPI = Gold Card... White Card for specific conditions applies to all other Veteran cases.

It can be amazing who ends up with TPI - sailors on the Sydney .... oooooh, the stress.... sheilas who went to East Timor and saw not a shot fired.... it's as common as sheila stress in the police force.... the horror..... the horror .....

Claims for non-combat related injury/disability go through Defence.... the ex Para I know - back injury from a demonstration jump at Nowra and a wind blew up and he hit a fence, had to fight for years and ended up giving it up. Ridiculous... Now he's got skin cancers and I'm pushing him to go for Defence - all those days in the sun...

For TPI, which you get for life, you have to get in before age 65 or you never get in. Ridiculous - somehow the level of disability changes once you're 65?

Anyway - conscription had its time - and I always praise any Digger since they were there and ready just in case, even if they never fought.

All this BS of 'my dog's bigger than yours' has to stop. Jesus - look at the Afghanistan guys... look at the kerfuffle over The Tall One .... did you know that SAS - with far less actual commitment time per person to direct combat, were paid $500 a week more than the Commandos next door in the sheds who did the daily grinds and took most of the hits, day and night?

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Reply #22 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 5:16pm

All that said - there WILL be conscription in the event of a major conflict. Told yez, already - at age 73 I already put my hat in the ring since I can smell the powder smoke on the wind..... can't run them hills any more but I can do other things....

And I will say again - the first waves of conscriptees will be MEN - regardless of all the PC BS that has been doing the rounds for so long now that nobody has any balls left and half the blokes want to become sheilas ... women will be turned away until they are needed..... but your sons and grandsons will be first in and last out....

Reality and ideology are not the best bedfellows..... get used to it.... and I told you already to start getting ready...... things don't look good.

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Bias_2012

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Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Reply #23 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 6:38pm

Aussie wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 4:31pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 3:25pm:

Aussie wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 3:04pm:

Bugger off. You want the perks of serving (the Gold Card) but not once were you in any real jeapordy.

What health issues do you have because for a short time you were a grunt in Australia never having faced an enemy?

I don't want a Gold Card, I'm just helping the other guys on NashoFairGo to get it. But Keogh has the same hateful belligerent attitude towards non-touring conscripts as you do, so I doubt the others will ever receive one

Any bugger who is suffering from a disability arising from active overseas service gets a Golf Card.

Just because you served is not enough

, even if that was overseas.

You're a bit of a pig aren't ya? ... like I said, you've got the same bastard attitude that Keogh has, and of those before him

It seems you're another one that can't tell the difference between "voluntary" and "compulsory"

The short video in this link demonstrates "compulsory" ...

https://www.britishpathe.com/video/VLVA7IV5IB96Q1KGJ8QHNHLLPCP8Y-AUSTRALIA-NATIO...

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Bias_2012

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Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Reply #24 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 7:11pm

Aussie wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 4:35pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 3:33pm:

Conscripts who were not selected to tour Vietnam should have been discharged immediately and sent back to their jobs in civilian life

Only after they have served their term. This is a very mealy mouthed whinge.

I checked the Law at the time I was up for it, 1967/8, and the legislation which existed ensured that if I was conscripted, my employment had to be resumed if I wanted it.

Tradesman, (not employees) are not in the same boat.

You're not much of a lawyer

Sending us back to civilian life early if there was nothing for us to do, is aligned with the same principle as only needing some 20 year old blokes for conscription, and not every 20 year old bloke, when conscription was first announced

But I doubt a brilliant armchair lawyer such as yourself would have the capacity to figure that out

Aussie wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 4:35pm:

I checked the Law at the time I was up for it, 1967/8, and the legislation which existed ensured that if I was conscripted, my employment had to be resumed if I wanted it.

You checked the law in case you got conscripted, but then you weren't conscripted. Did you volunteer? if not, why not? Patriotic Duty meant very little to you? You just left it up to others, I assume

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Jasin

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Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Reply #25 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 7:29pm

Great Topic Bias. I shake your hand on this.

Just last week I shook the hand of a Vietnam hero who was awarded a rare medal. I joked to him, that I always thought he was an Accountant - to which he laughed. I'll keep his privacy obviously. But this is no lie.

True - conscription is Slavery!

Now I admire guys who 'volunteer' to go off and play Soldier, etc. It's their choice in life. But there is more to this world than just Military or even Politics. You could say that they are just '2' regions of this world out of '8' and in no way superior to the rest 'just because'.

We all know that the Military psyche is to be 'Superior' and that Civilians are the 'inferior' species and that if anyone refuses to do what they say (at gunpoint?) - they are labelled 'Cowards' and gaoled, etc.

Now the Greeks and Spartans never had 'conscription' - all was 'volunteer' based. They lived and died by that. As have many nations and many cultures throughout time have defeated 'military' invaders without military retaliation. Like Ramses II and the Arabian States who traded the conquering Mongols into oblivion.

There is also the fact that Australia going to war FOR AMERICA is really a Dog act. Nothing but Mercenaries, more than Soldiers.
I would volunteer for any United Nations need, as should Australia.
The USA is Lancelot, not the King Arthur (Britain) and us Sons of Percival here, must one day realise that we shouldn't be a dog and serve the USA's selfish agendas.
When we realise that, we may indeed discover the secret of the Holy Grail - which the USA threw away in its War of Independence.

But let's just say that we don't see any other Industry 'conscript' by force their needs and priorities. During Covid - we didn't see the Government try to boost recruitment for more Medical Staff... even to alleviate traffic line-ups at testing stations for a full day's wait.

Then you get chest beaters like Aussie who shows the mentality of the military psyche in how it views others.

Well Military/Politics - if YOU want to get involved in stupid American wars. Then ONLY YOU should fight them out.
If the ADF is not good enough to do its own job and needs to suddenly SPONGE AND BLUDGE off Civilians by forced Slavery under the false name of Conscription - then you are NOT WORTHY to be in existence as our Military expression in this part of the world.
We would indeed be better with another, that's for sure.

We all know that both Parties would do a Peccary Promise and push Conscription back in with all the Propaganda involved about how every man is a Coward and Un-Australian if we don't get involved in War - especially for the Americans.

United Nations - First
Commonwealth - Second
Great Britain - Third
Our Region of Sahul - First/Fourth

That should be our Priority. Not the USA's.

I do feel sorry for the Vietnam Vets. Vietnam as a country has proven to have been all the better for its unification. The USA was wrong and what the hell is it's business anyway what nations in other countries do - especially other Regions? The USA is not God, nor the United Nations.
It's just a selfish Privatised Political nation.

I would gladly do Gaol time, rather than be dragged off by a bunch of hopeless thugs called Military. Descended from Convicts - what the hell would Gaol time do to ruffle my feathers? Hell, I found Lockdowns easy and fun.

Nar - f*uck the Military, f*uck the Politicians - when it comes to SLAVERY (press gangs).

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Sophia

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Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Reply #26 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 7:41pm

Quote:

I would gladly do Gaol time, rather than be dragged off by a bunch of hopeless thugs called Military.

Exactly how I felt back then at 18 years of age! And still do feel that way now 50 years later! I have always said that the big gov boys should fight it out amidst themselves instead, and leave the rest of humanity to live their lives in peace.
Instead of being used as canon fodder! Angry

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Bobby.

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Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Reply #27 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 7:50pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 11^th, 2022 at 5:16pm:

All that said - there WILL be conscription in the event of a major conflict. Told yez, already - at age 73 I already put my hat in the ring since I can smell the powder smoke on the wind..... can't run them hills any more but I can do other things....

And I will say again - the first waves of conscriptees will be MEN - regardless of all the PC BS that has been doing the rounds for so long now that nobody has any balls left and half the blokes want to become sheilas ... women will be turned away until they are needed..... but your sons and grandsons will be first in and last out....

Reality and ideology are not the best bedfellows..... get used to it.... and I told you already to start getting ready...... things don't look good.

Some blokes will wear dresses to get out of conscription. Grin

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Jasin

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Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary
Reply #28 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 7:54pm

Can't you Military types fight your own battles Grapps?
Do you really need to press gang a Botanist, an Accountant, a Teacher, etc, etc, etc - to FIGHT YOUR BATTLES FOR YOU?

I guess just pressing a button takes a lot of manly physical energy to kill another human from a very safe distance away.
Reckon it has turned all you reptillian cold blooded Men in Green - into a bunch of mary-fairy cry babies.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 47295 Gender:	Re: End of Conscription - 50th Anniversary Reply #29 - Dec 11^th, 2022 at 8:42pm Imagine being enslaved into a troop led by Aussie and Brian. ...guess I'ld be going to gaol for murder.
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