thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 21^st, 2022 at 4:02pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 21^st, 2022 at 8:43am:


At least you admit Israel is not a 'beacon of freedom and democracy."

And as the good professor says, "The fact that you allow people to participate in the formal side of democracy, namely to vote or to be elected, is useless and meaningless if you don’t give them any share in the common good or in the common resources of the State, or if you discriminate against them despite the fact that you allow them to participate in the elections."

Or did you miss that? Sure looks like it.

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As shown, Israel is not "equally inclusive."

Still, which of Israel's neighbours operate like what is described here?

https://electronicintifada.net/content/un-body-appalled-israels-racial-segregati...

Compare that with how Jews are treated in Iran:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/12/27/the-fascinating-history-and-political-li...

freediver wrote on Dec 21^st, 2022 at 9:19pm:


There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see

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Not if "you don’t give them any share in the common good or in the common resources of the State, or if you discriminate against them despite the fact that you allow them to participate in the elections."

Besides, democracy means much more than just being allowed to vote, i.e. the principle of equality of rights, opportunity and treatment, and the practice of this principle.

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WTF? Did you not see that UN report linked above?

Additionally:

"Al-Araqib is one of 35 unrecognized Bedouin villages in the Negev desert in southern Israel, which means Israel refuses to provide residents with connections to the national water and electricity grids, provide them with health and educational services, or any basic infrastructure. Over the years, the village has become a symbol of the struggle against dispossession of Bedouin from their land, and for state recognition of Bedouin villages in the Negev.

"Despite being citizens of Israel that are supposed to enjoy equal rights, the Israeli government, the Israel Land Authority, and the Jewish National Fund have been waging a slow and methodical war of attrition against Bedouin residents of Al-Araqib in an effort to expel them and plant a forest atop their land."

This Bedouin village has been demolished by Israel 120 times

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 21^st, 2022 at 5:01pm:


In his book, Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid, Jimmy Carter says:

It would be almost politically suicidal for members of Congress to espouse a balanced position between Israel and Palestine, to suggest that Israel comply with international law or to speak in defense of justice or human rights for Palestinians. Very few would deign to visit the Palestinian cities of Ramallah, Nablus, Hebron, Gaza City or Bethlehem and talk to the beleaguered residents.

wombatwoody wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2022 at 6:32am:


No. Did you read it? Do you understand it?

Lisa Jones wrote on Dec 21^st, 2022 at 4:14pm:


And I still can't get a straight answer to the above question either.

Oh and stop trying to ignore my links (which clearly back up my posts) by conveniently excluding them when responding to me!

It's time we ALL faced reality OzPol!

Biden is adamantly pro Jewish AND pro Zionist even NOW!

Listen to him ..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3fGQBFtQoXU

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/-PmzCOVKsAg

Lisa Jones wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2022 at 10:40am:


Already addressed: we don't know what is Biden's definition of Zionism, but we know he supports a 2-state solution, also the official UN and US position.

Is that compatible with the Zionist position? Are there  several Zionist stances re the 2-state solution?   

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I don't need to read your links, because they are irrelevant, for the reasons pointed out by me, above. 

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I haven't listened, I'm interested in ending the illegal occupation of the West Bank, and I heard Biden say (a month or two ago) he wants a 2-state solution. 

Does Biden reject a Palestinian state alongside Israel, in those links? 

issuevoter wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2022 at 3:49pm:


A fair summation of the situation, given the lack of proper international law.

But the desire for a 'just' solution in Palestine - via 2 states - runs deep in the UN:

"In 1947, after looking at alternatives (for dealing with the British Mandate in Palestine 1917 - 1947), the UN proposed terminating the Mandate and partitioning Palestine into two independent States, one Palestinian Arab and the other Jewish, with Jerusalem internationalized (Resolution 181 (II) of 1947).

The resolution is still on the books..... and even Biden, 75 years later, officially supports a 2-state solution.

But unofficially...reading between the lines of what Lisa is saying, Biden is probably just biding time...doesn't want to be seen to be offside with the majority of the UN members who want a 2-state solution  (unlike Trumpy, who wouldn't give a damn about world opinion).  i