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Zionism (Read 26424 times)
wombatwoody
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Re: Zionism
Reply #270 - Feb 2nd, 2023 at 7:03pm
 
If you want to see support for genocide you need look no further than the Hebrew Bible.

There you will find incitements to genocide, unequivocal incitements, by the score.
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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

Benjamin Netanyahu, quoted in Ma’ariv, 16 April 2008
 
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Frank
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Re: Zionism
Reply #271 - Feb 2nd, 2023 at 8:03pm
 
wombatwoody wrote on Feb 2nd, 2023 at 7:37am:
Frank wrote on Jan 31st, 2023 at 12:46pm:
wombatwoody wrote on Jan 31st, 2023 at 8:19am:
freediver wrote on Jan 31st, 2023 at 7:13am:
Quote:
Why did you start it?


To discuss your support for genocide.


Why can't this alleged support be discussed here in this one? Answer please.

Quote:
Gandalf


Who's that? oh never mind...

Tell you what tho, start a new forum on Jewish-Zionist fanaticism and I might partake.

That's only fair. Why should Islamic extremism get all the attention while the Jewish-Zionist variety, the far more dangerous one, be ignored?

Oh that's right, Israel wants the West to fight its wars:

"We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq."

Benjamin Netanyahu, Haaretz, 16 April 2008


What is your solution for the Israel-Arab conflict?



Already given in #101.

The Palestinians are not a people with a nation like the Jews.

They were not a country  or a nation under the Ottomans, or ever. Perhaps the Philistines in Gaza - but they have been long eliminated by the Muslim Arabs.

Palestinians us a made up 'nation' like the Aboriginal 'First Nations'. Rhetorical device with no substance.  They ard Muslim Arab invaders and people subjugated and convertex by them. Just like the rest of North Africa and thd Middle East. 
Palestinians are overwhelmingly Muslim Arab invaders kvetching about the Reconquista of a tiny sliver by the Jews.

By rights the Greeks should re-conquer large swathes of Turkey, Syria, Jordan, at least, and non-Arab natives of the whole of North Africa.  Muslim Arab claims are very recent and tenuous and are based on absolutely NOTHING but the right of conquerors.  Morally weaker than the right of REconquerors.

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« Last Edit: Feb 2nd, 2023 at 8:14pm by Frank »  

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wombatwoody
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Re: Zionism
Reply #272 - Feb 2nd, 2023 at 9:43pm
 
Frank wrote on Feb 2nd, 2023 at 8:03pm:
The Palestinians are not a people with a nation like the Jews.

They were not a country  or a nation under the Ottomans, or ever. Perhaps the Philistines in Gaza - but they have been long eliminated by the Muslim Arabs.

Palestinians us a made up 'nation' like the Aboriginal 'First Nations'. Rhetorical device with no substance.  They ard Muslim Arab invaders and people subjugated and convertex by them. Just like the rest of North Africa and thd Middle East. 
Palestinians are overwhelmingly Muslim Arab invaders kvetching about the Reconquista of a tiny sliver by the Jews.

By rights the Greeks should re-conquer large swathes of Turkey, Syria, Jordan, at least, and non-Arab natives of the whole of North Africa.  Muslim Arab claims are very recent and tenuous and are based on absolutely NOTHING but the right of conquerors.  Morally weaker than the right of REconquerors.



If you argue that the Palestinian people should not have a country of their own because they have never had a state, then why should the peoples of Salvador, Guatemala, Congo, Algeria, etc. have the right of self determination?

None of these countries had a state prior to gaining independence, nor a distinct language or culture that set them apart from their neighboring states. In other words, even if it’s true that the Palestinian people had neither a state, nor a distinct culture or language,

Is that a good reason to confiscate their homes, farms, and businesses?

Is that a good reason to block their return to their homes?

Is that a good reason to nullify their citizenship in the country in which they were born?
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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

Benjamin Netanyahu, quoted in Ma’ariv, 16 April 2008
 
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freediver
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Re: Zionism
Reply #273 - Feb 3rd, 2023 at 7:44am
 
Quote:
There you will find incitements to genocide, unequivocal incitements, by the score.


Can you give an example?
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Frank
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Re: Zionism
Reply #274 - Feb 3rd, 2023 at 8:27am
 
wombatwoody wrote on Feb 2nd, 2023 at 9:43pm:
Frank wrote on Feb 2nd, 2023 at 8:03pm:
The Palestinians are not a people with a nation like the Jews.

They were not a country  or a nation under the Ottomans, or ever. Perhaps the Philistines in Gaza - but they have been long eliminated by the Muslim Arabs.

Palestinians us a made up 'nation' like the Aboriginal 'First Nations'. Rhetorical device with no substance.  They ard Muslim Arab invaders and people subjugated and convertex by them. Just like the rest of North Africa and thd Middle East. 
Palestinians are overwhelmingly Muslim Arab invaders kvetching about the Reconquista of a tiny sliver by the Jews.

By rights the Greeks should re-conquer large swathes of Turkey, Syria, Jordan, at least, and non-Arab natives of the whole of North Africa.  Muslim Arab claims are very recent and tenuous and are based on absolutely NOTHING but the right of conquerors.  Morally weaker than the right of REconquerors.



If you argue that the Palestinian people should not have a country of their own because they have never had a state, then why should the peoples of Salvador, Guatemala, Congo, Algeria, etc. have the right of self determination?




Well, that is an goid question. Not quite comparable, though.

Israel has been created by the UN after WWII where the Kingdom of Judah was. The Jews have been a distinct people since antiquity, with their own country then but in dispora since. None of these parameters aply to the Palestinians or the other examples you bring up.

If Israel cannot be recreated where it was before its destryction by the Romans, where can it be recreated? If the Jews cannot have a country there, where can they have one?


Lots of borders changed in the 20th century, lots of countries disappeared and many new ones were created or recreated. None had such a hard time as Israel, attacked and menaced from Day One. Why?

Because its very existence is a repudiation Islamic doctrine. It is not about anything but Islam. The Palestinians were never thriving for liberation from any of the Muslim powers ruling over them. They never saw themselves as a nation for centuries undef Muslim rule. They have always been various clans or tribes and only invented their nationhood in response the recreation of Israel.

It's  the sameish political strategic wheeze as Aborihpginal 'First Nations'. There had been no Palestinian Nation just as there had been no Aboriginal Nations until it was necesssry to invent them for current political purposes.


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Jasin
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Re: Zionism
Reply #275 - Feb 3rd, 2023 at 4:56pm
 
Well the cowardly Mafia Italians won't genocide the Moslems until 'after' they drop their weapons and end their 'Empire' of Islam due to receiving their Messiah from France's ashes.

...when the 'Empire' of Islam ends, so to will American citizens drop their weapons - but by that time, the price will be paid for it to happen.  Wink
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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wombatwoody
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Re: Zionism
Reply #276 - Feb 3rd, 2023 at 8:09pm
 
freediver wrote on Feb 3rd, 2023 at 7:44am:
Quote:
There you will find incitements to genocide, unequivocal incitements, by the score.


Can you give an example?


Are you serious?
Back to top
 

We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

Benjamin Netanyahu, quoted in Ma’ariv, 16 April 2008
 
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wombatwoody
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Re: Zionism
Reply #277 - Feb 3rd, 2023 at 8:11pm
 
Frank wrote on Feb 3rd, 2023 at 8:27am:
wombatwoody wrote on Feb 2nd, 2023 at 9:43pm:
Frank wrote on Feb 2nd, 2023 at 8:03pm:
The Palestinians are not a people with a nation like the Jews.

They were not a country  or a nation under the Ottomans, or ever. Perhaps the Philistines in Gaza - but they have been long eliminated by the Muslim Arabs.

Palestinians us a made up 'nation' like the Aboriginal 'First Nations'. Rhetorical device with no substance.  They ard Muslim Arab invaders and people subjugated and convertex by them. Just like the rest of North Africa and thd Middle East. 
Palestinians are overwhelmingly Muslim Arab invaders kvetching about the Reconquista of a tiny sliver by the Jews.

By rights the Greeks should re-conquer large swathes of Turkey, Syria, Jordan, at least, and non-Arab natives of the whole of North Africa.  Muslim Arab claims are very recent and tenuous and are based on absolutely NOTHING but the right of conquerors.  Morally weaker than the right of REconquerors.



If you argue that the Palestinian people should not have a country of their own because they have never had a state, then why should the peoples of Salvador, Guatemala, Congo, Algeria, etc. have the right of self determination?




Well, that is an goid question. Not quite comparable, though.

Israel has been created by the UN after WWII where the Kingdom of Judah was. The Jews have been a distinct people since antiquity, with their own country then but in dispora since. None of these parameters aply to the Palestinians or the other examples you bring up.

If Israel cannot be recreated where it was before its destryction by the Romans, where can it be recreated? If the Jews cannot have a country there, where can they have one?


Lots of borders changed in the 20th century, lots of countries disappeared and many new ones were created or recreated. None had such a hard time as Israel, attacked and menaced from Day One. Why?

Because its very existence is a repudiation Islamic doctrine. It is not about anything but Islam. The Palestinians were never thriving for liberation from any of the Muslim powers ruling over them. They never saw themselves as a nation for centuries undef Muslim rule. They have always been various clans or tribes and only invented their nationhood in response the recreation of Israel.

It's  the sameish political strategic wheeze as Aborihpginal 'First Nations'. There had been no Palestinian Nation just as there had been no Aboriginal Nations until it was necesssry to invent them for current political purposes.



Did you post that in haste and inadvertently neglect to address what I also asked, ie,

Is that a good reason to confiscate their homes, farms, and businesses?

Is that a good reason to block their return to their homes?

Is that a good reason to nullify their citizenship in the country in which they were born?
Back to top
 

We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

Benjamin Netanyahu, quoted in Ma’ariv, 16 April 2008
 
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Frank
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Re: Zionism
Reply #278 - Feb 3rd, 2023 at 9:11pm
 
wombatwoody wrote on Feb 3rd, 2023 at 8:11pm:
Frank wrote on Feb 3rd, 2023 at 8:27am:
wombatwoody wrote on Feb 2nd, 2023 at 9:43pm:
Frank wrote on Feb 2nd, 2023 at 8:03pm:
The Palestinians are not a people with a nation like the Jews.

They were not a country  or a nation under the Ottomans, or ever. Perhaps the Philistines in Gaza - but they have been long eliminated by the Muslim Arabs.

Palestinians us a made up 'nation' like the Aboriginal 'First Nations'. Rhetorical device with no substance.  They ard Muslim Arab invaders and people subjugated and convertex by them. Just like the rest of North Africa and thd Middle East. 
Palestinians are overwhelmingly Muslim Arab invaders kvetching about the Reconquista of a tiny sliver by the Jews.

By rights the Greeks should re-conquer large swathes of Turkey, Syria, Jordan, at least, and non-Arab natives of the whole of North Africa.  Muslim Arab claims are very recent and tenuous and are based on absolutely NOTHING but the right of conquerors.  Morally weaker than the right of REconquerors.



If you argue that the Palestinian people should not have a country of their own because they have never had a state, then why should the peoples of Salvador, Guatemala, Congo, Algeria, etc. have the right of self determination?




Well, that is an goid question. Not quite comparable, though.

Israel has been created by the UN after WWII where the Kingdom of Judah was. The Jews have been a distinct people since antiquity, with their own country then but in dispora since. None of these parameters aply to the Palestinians or the other examples you bring up.

If Israel cannot be recreated where it was before its destryction by the Romans, where can it be recreated? If the Jews cannot have a country there, where can they have one?


Lots of borders changed in the 20th century, lots of countries disappeared and many new ones were created or recreated. None had such a hard time as Israel, attacked and menaced from Day One. Why?

Because its very existence is a repudiation Islamic doctrine. It is not about anything but Islam. The Palestinians were never thriving for liberation from any of the Muslim powers ruling over them. They never saw themselves as a nation for centuries undef Muslim rule. They have always been various clans or tribes and only invented their nationhood in response the recreation of Israel.

It's  the sameish political strategic wheeze as Aborihpginal 'First Nations'. There had been no Palestinian Nation just as there had been no Aboriginal Nations until it was necesssry to invent them for current political purposes.



Did you post that in haste and inadvertently neglect to address what I also asked, ie,

Is that a good reason to confiscate their homes, farms, and businesses?

Is that a good reason to block their return to their homes?

Is that a good reason to nullify their citizenship in the country in which they were born?



Yes, very good reason- they attacked Israel the day after it accepted the REDUCED offer of nationhood from the UN. Just for that single fact I have absolutely no sympathy for the endless sneaky Muslim bellyacheing about Israel.

That instant attack and all others ever since demonstrate that Muslims simply are not to be trusted, do not act in good faith (that's Islam for you) and Israel is absolutely justified in its treatment of Muslims on its borders.

In a way the Pallos are very, very  lucky that the Israelis are civilised. Were they to act like Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Saddamite Iraq, Taliban Afghanistan,  the Pallos would have been exterminated by about 1950.





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freediver
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Re: Zionism
Reply #279 - Feb 4th, 2023 at 7:32am
 
wombatwoody wrote on Feb 3rd, 2023 at 8:09pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 3rd, 2023 at 7:44am:
Quote:
There you will find incitements to genocide, unequivocal incitements, by the score.


Can you give an example?


Are you serious?


Are you?
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wombatwoody
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Re: Zionism
Reply #280 - Feb 8th, 2023 at 6:03am
 
Frank wrote on Feb 3rd, 2023 at 9:11pm:

Yes, very good reason- they attacked Israel the day after it accepted the REDUCED offer of nationhood from the UN. Just for that single fact I have absolutely no sympathy for the endless sneaky Muslim bellyacheing about Israel.


Palestinians were excluded from the decision-making process which concluded against their will and at their expense.

And the UN plan violated the principles of national self-determination in the UN Charter which granted people the right to decide their own destiny.


Quote:
Land ownership statistics from 1945 showed that Arabs owned more land than Jews in every single district in Palestine.

The Ad Hoc Committee on the Palestinian Question was established by the General Assembly shortly after the issuance of the UNSCOP report in order to continue to study the problem and make recommendations. It found that “the General Assembly is not competent to recommend, still less to enforce, any solution other than the recognition of the independence of Palestine, and that the settlement of the future government of Palestine is a matter solely for the people of Palestine.”

It concluded further that the partition plan was “contrary to the principles of the Charter, and the United Nations have no power to give effect to it.” The U.N. could not

deprive the majority of the people of Palestine of their territory and transfer it to the exclusive use of a minority in the country…. The United Nations Organization has no power to create a new State. Such a decision can only be taken by the free will of the people of the territories in question. That condition is not fulfilled in the case of the majority proposal, as it involves the establishment of a Jewish State in complete disregard of the wishes and interests of the Arabs of Palestine.


The partition plan put forth by UNSCOP sought to create within Palestine a Jewish state contrary to the express will of the majority of its inhabitants. Despite constituting only a third of the population and owning less than 7 percent of the land, it sought to grant to the Jews more than half of Palestine for purpose of creating that Jewish state. It would, in other words, take land from the Arabs and give it to the Jews. The inherent injustice of the partition plan stands in stark contrast to alternative plan proposed by the Arabs, of an independent state of Palestine in which the rights of the Jewish minority would be recognized and respected, and which would afford the Jewish population representation in a democratic government. The partition plan was blatantly prejudicial to the rights of the majority Arab population, and was premised on the rejection of their right to self-determination. This is all the more uncontroversial inasmuch as the UNSCOP report itself explicitly acknowledged that the proposal to create a Jewish state in Palestine was contrary to the principle of self-determination. The plan was also premised upon the erroneous assumption that the Arabs would simply acquiesce to having their land taken from them and voluntarily surrender their majority rights, including their right to self-determination.

U.N. General Assembly Resolution 181 neither legally partitioned Palestine nor conferred upon the Zionist leadership any legal authority to unilaterally declare the existence of the Jewish state of Israel. It merely recommended that the UNSCOP partition plan be accepted and implemented by the concerned parties. Naturally, to have any weight of law, the plan, like any contract, would have to have been formally agreed upon by both parties, which it was not. Nor could the General Assembly have legally partitioned Palestine or otherwise conferred legal authority for the creation of Israel to the Zionist leadership, as it simply had no such authority to confer. When the Security Council took up the matter referred to it by the General Assembly, it could come to no consensus on how to proceed with implementing the partition plan. It being apparent that the plan could not be implemented by peaceful means, the suggestion that it be implemented by force was rejected by members of the Security Council. The simple fact of the matter is that the plan was never implemented. Numerous delegates from member states, including the U.S., arrived at the conclusion that the plan was impracticable, and, furthermore, that the Security Council had no authority to implement such a plan except by mutual consent by concerned parties, which was absent in this case.

The Myth of the U.N. Creation of Israel, by Jeremy R. Hammond




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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

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Jasin
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Re: Zionism
Reply #281 - Feb 8th, 2023 at 6:07am
 
Judaism - which is about the Fall from the Middle-Eastern Garden in the beginning is about to Rise as an Empire of Israel.

Mohommedism - which is about the Rise into the Middle-Eastern Garden in the beginning is about to Fall as an Empire of Islam.

Eventually both will 'unite' as Istari upon the crucifixion of the 'United' Kingdom.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: Zionism
Reply #282 - Feb 8th, 2023 at 6:07am
 
Quote:
Palestinians were excluded from the decision-making process which concluded against their will and at their expense.

And the UN plan violated the principles of national self-determination in the UN Charter which granted people the right to decide their own destiny.


So the UN failed to let a non-existent nation decide for itself to come into existence?
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wombatwoody
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Re: Zionism
Reply #283 - Feb 8th, 2023 at 6:09am
 
freediver wrote on Feb 4th, 2023 at 7:32am:
wombatwoody wrote on Feb 3rd, 2023 at 8:09pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 3rd, 2023 at 7:44am:
Quote:
There you will find incitements to genocide, unequivocal incitements, by the score.


Can you give an example?


Are you serious?


Are you?


Asking for examples implies an unawareness of just how murderous and genocidal that book is, does it not?

Whatever... I'll start with this:

"It is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable... The Lord shall return the Arabs' deeds on their own heads, waste their seed and exterminate them, devastate them and vanish them from this world"   
— Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, as quoted by BBC News, "Rabbi calls for annihilation of Arabs" (10 April 2001).

Rabbi Yosef in all likelihood was referring to Deuteronomy 7:2:

And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew them any mercy

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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

Benjamin Netanyahu, quoted in Ma’ariv, 16 April 2008
 
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freediver
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Re: Zionism
Reply #284 - Feb 8th, 2023 at 6:23am
 
wombatwoody wrote on Feb 8th, 2023 at 6:09am:
freediver wrote on Feb 4th, 2023 at 7:32am:
wombatwoody wrote on Feb 3rd, 2023 at 8:09pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 3rd, 2023 at 7:44am:
Quote:
There you will find incitements to genocide, unequivocal incitements, by the score.


Can you give an example?


Are you serious?


Are you?


Asking for examples implies an unawareness of just how murderous and genocidal that book is, does it not?

Whatever... I'll start with this:

"It is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable... The Lord shall return the Arabs' deeds on their own heads, waste their seed and exterminate them, devastate them and vanish them from this world"   
— Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, as quoted by BBC News, "Rabbi calls for annihilation of Arabs" (10 April 2001).

Rabbi Yosef in all likelihood was referring to Deuteronomy 7:2:

And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew them any mercy



Do you know who the "them" is?
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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