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Zionism (Read 26351 times)
wombatwoody
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Re: Zionism
Reply #285 - Feb 8th, 2023 at 7:13am
 
freediver wrote on Feb 8th, 2023 at 6:07am:
Quote:
Palestinians were excluded from the decision-making process which concluded against their will and at their expense.

And the UN plan violated the principles of national self-determination in the UN Charter which granted people the right to decide their own destiny.


So the UN failed to let a non-existent nation decide for itself to come into existence?


See  #272




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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

Benjamin Netanyahu, quoted in Ma’ariv, 16 April 2008
 
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wombatwoody
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Re: Zionism
Reply #286 - Feb 8th, 2023 at 7:14am
 
freediver wrote on Feb 8th, 2023 at 6:23am:
wombatwoody wrote on Feb 8th, 2023 at 6:09am:
freediver wrote on Feb 4th, 2023 at 7:32am:
wombatwoody wrote on Feb 3rd, 2023 at 8:09pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 3rd, 2023 at 7:44am:
Quote:
There you will find incitements to genocide, unequivocal incitements, by the score.


Can you give an example?


Are you serious?


Are you?


Asking for examples implies an unawareness of just how murderous and genocidal that book is, does it not?

Whatever... I'll start with this:

"It is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable... The Lord shall return the Arabs' deeds on their own heads, waste their seed and exterminate them, devastate them and vanish them from this world"   
— Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, as quoted by BBC News, "Rabbi calls for annihilation of Arabs" (10 April 2001).

Rabbi Yosef in all likelihood was referring to Deuteronomy 7:2:

And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew them any mercy



Do you know who the "them" is?


Goyim.
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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

Benjamin Netanyahu, quoted in Ma’ariv, 16 April 2008
 
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freediver
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Re: Zionism
Reply #287 - Feb 8th, 2023 at 5:12pm
 
wombatwoody wrote on Feb 8th, 2023 at 7:14am:
freediver wrote on Feb 8th, 2023 at 6:23am:
wombatwoody wrote on Feb 8th, 2023 at 6:09am:
freediver wrote on Feb 4th, 2023 at 7:32am:
wombatwoody wrote on Feb 3rd, 2023 at 8:09pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 3rd, 2023 at 7:44am:
Quote:
There you will find incitements to genocide, unequivocal incitements, by the score.


Can you give an example?


Are you serious?


Are you?


Asking for examples implies an unawareness of just how murderous and genocidal that book is, does it not?

Whatever... I'll start with this:

"It is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable... The Lord shall return the Arabs' deeds on their own heads, waste their seed and exterminate them, devastate them and vanish them from this world"   
— Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, as quoted by BBC News, "Rabbi calls for annihilation of Arabs" (10 April 2001).

Rabbi Yosef in all likelihood was referring to Deuteronomy 7:2:

And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew them any mercy



Do you know who the "them" is?


Goyim.


Can you cite a Rabbi claiming that verse is a general command to slaughter goyim?
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wombatwoody
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Re: Zionism
Reply #288 - Feb 8th, 2023 at 7:01pm
 
Frank wrote on Feb 3rd, 2023 at 8:27am:
It is not about anything but Islam.


You do realise, don't you, that not all Palestinians are Muslim? Many are Christian. The famous Palestinian scholar and peace activist, Edward Said, was a Christian.

So it's not just about Islam, it's about Palestinian self-determination, which, I shall remind you, is defined as a 'determination by the people of a territorial unit of their own future political status'.

Quote:
The Palestinians were never thriving for liberation from any of the Muslim powers ruling over them.


Why would they? It was only with the arrival of Zionist settlers that they realised they would become second-class citizens in their own land.


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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

Benjamin Netanyahu, quoted in Ma’ariv, 16 April 2008
 
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wombatwoody
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Re: Zionism
Reply #289 - Feb 8th, 2023 at 7:30pm
 
freediver wrote on Feb 8th, 2023 at 5:12pm:
Can you cite a Rabbi claiming that verse is a general command to slaughter goyim?


I shall again quote Prof. Shahak's Jewish History, Jewish Religion:



(The) special laws concerning Gentiles in the Land of Israel. Their connection with actual Zionist practice will be quite apparent.

The Halakhah (Jewish Law) forbids Jews to sell immovable property—fields and houses—in the Land of Israel to Gentiles...

These and several other rules are explained as follows: . . . "so that you shall not allow them to camp on the ground, for if they do not possess land, their sojourn there will be temporary."
[52]


Even temporary Gentile presence may only be tolerated "when the Jews are in exile, or when the Gentiles are more powerful than the Jews," but

    When the Jews are more powerful than the Gentiles we are forbidden to let an idolator among us; even a temporary resident or itinerant trader shall not be allowed to pass through our land unless he accepts the seven Noahide precepts,
[53]
for it is written: "they shall not dwell in thy land"
[54]
that is, not even temporarily. If he accepts the seven Noahide precepts, he becomes a resident alien (ger toshav) but it is forbidden to grant the status of resident alien except at times when the Jubilee is held [that is, when the Temple stands and sacrifices are offered]...

It is therefore clear that—exactly as the leaders and sympathizers of Gush Emunim say—the whole question to how the Palestinians ought to be treated is, according to the Halakhah, simply a question of Jewish power: if Jews have sufficient power, then it is their religious duty to expel the Palestinians.

All these laws are often quoted by Israeli rabbis and their zealous followers...

In addition to laws such as those mentioned so far, which are directed at all Gentiles in the Land of Israel, an even greater evil influence arises from special laws against the ancient Canaanites and other nations who lived in Palestine before its conquest by Joshua, as well as against the Amalekites. All those nations must be utterly exterminated, and the Talmud and Talmudic literature reiterate the genocidal Biblical exhortations with even greater vehemence. Influential rabbis, who have a considerable following among Israeli army officers, identify the Palestinians (or even all Arabs) with those ancient nations, so that commands like "thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth"
[56]
acquire a topical meaning. In fact, it is not uncommon for reserve soldiers called up to do a tour of duty in the Gaza Strip to be given an "educational lecture" in which they are told that the Palestinians of Gaza are "like the Amalekites." Biblical verses exhorting to genocide of the Midianites
[57]
were solemnly quoted by an important Israeli rabbi in justification of the Qibbiya massacre,
[58]
and this pronouncement has gained wide circulation in the Israeli army. There are many similar examples of bloodthirsty rabbinical pronouncements against the Palestinians, based on these laws.

Chapter 5, The Laws Against Non-Jews


52
. Maimonides, op. cit., "Idolatry" 10, 3-4.

53
... R. Yo'el Sirkis, Bayit Hadash, commentary on Beyt Josef, "Yoreh De'ah" 158...

54
. Exodus, 23:33.

56
. Deuteronomy, 20:16.

57
. Numbers 31:13-20; note in particular verse 17: "Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him."

58
. R. Sha'ul Yisra'eli, "Taqrit Qibbiya Le'or Hahalakhah" ("The Qibbiya incident in the light of the Halakhah"), in Hattorah Wehammedinah, vol 5, 1953/4.
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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

Benjamin Netanyahu, quoted in Ma’ariv, 16 April 2008
 
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Frank
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Re: Zionism
Reply #290 - Feb 8th, 2023 at 7:44pm
 
wombatwoody wrote on Feb 8th, 2023 at 7:01pm:
Frank wrote on Feb 3rd, 2023 at 8:27am:
It is not about anything but Islam.


You do realise, don't you, that not all Palestinians are Muslim? Many are Christian. The famous Palestinian scholar and peace activist, Edward Said, was a Christian.

So it's not just about Islam, it's about Palestinian self-determination, which, I shall remind you, is defined as a 'determination by the people of a territorial unit of their own future political status'.

Quote:
The Palestinians were never thriving for liberation from any of the Muslim powers ruling over them.


Why would they? It was only with the arrival of Zionist settlers that they realised they would become second-class citizens in their own land.





Well, they are not a nation like, say, the Kurds, that's why they didn't. They discovered (that is, invented) their nationhood like the Aborigines, post hoc and for political reasons.

About 1-2% of the Pallos are Christian so they are certainly not setting the tone of eternal bloody jihad.

Said was a political hypocrite and an Egyptian libpving in America. His Orientalism is influential po-mo bollocks.  I do appreciate his musical writing and musical cooperation with Barenboim.
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freediver
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Re: Zionism
Reply #291 - Feb 8th, 2023 at 8:32pm
 
wombatwoody wrote on Feb 8th, 2023 at 7:30pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 8th, 2023 at 5:12pm:
Can you cite a Rabbi claiming that verse is a general command to slaughter goyim?


I shall again quote Prof. Shahak's Jewish History, Jewish Religion:


Are you saying you cannot find a single Rabbi who shares your interpretation of who that verse is talking about? For 'unequivocal' evidence, you are sure doing a lot of equivocating.

Would you like to try again with another verse?
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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wombatwoody
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Re: Zionism
Reply #292 - Feb 11th, 2023 at 9:20pm
 
freediver wrote on Feb 8th, 2023 at 8:32pm:
wombatwoody wrote on Feb 8th, 2023 at 7:30pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 8th, 2023 at 5:12pm:
Can you cite a Rabbi claiming that verse is a general command to slaughter goyim?


I shall again quote Prof. Shahak's Jewish History, Jewish Religion:




So you read no further than that?
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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

Benjamin Netanyahu, quoted in Ma’ariv, 16 April 2008
 
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freediver
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Re: Zionism
Reply #293 - Feb 12th, 2023 at 9:17am
 
I am still waiting for you to back up your original claim.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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Re: Zionism
Reply #294 - Feb 12th, 2023 at 1:15pm
 
The Jewish Father, the Moslem Son and the Christian Holy Ghost.

...all for Zarathustra's best selling 'God'.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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wombatwoody
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Re: Zionism
Reply #295 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 5:31am
 
freediver wrote on Feb 12th, 2023 at 9:17am:
I am still waiting for you to back up your original claim.


Did you read further than that, yes or no?
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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

Benjamin Netanyahu, quoted in Ma’ariv, 16 April 2008
 
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freediver
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Re: Zionism
Reply #296 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 6:48am
 
wombatwoody wrote on Feb 15th, 2023 at 5:31am:
freediver wrote on Feb 12th, 2023 at 9:17am:
I am still waiting for you to back up your original claim.


Did you read further than that, yes or no?


I believe so. It was a while ago now.

Do you have any evidence to back up your claim?

wombatwoody wrote on Feb 2nd, 2023 at 7:03pm:
If you want to see support for genocide you need look no further than the Hebrew Bible.

There you will find incitements to genocide, unequivocal incitements, by the score.


So far all you have done is equivocate.
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Re: Zionism
Reply #297 - Feb 15th, 2023 at 1:16pm
 
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/strongly-opposed-european-powers-denounce-i...

‘Strongly opposed’: European powers denounce Israel settlements

"Ministers from the United Kingdom, France, Germany, and Italy on Tuesday followed the United States in denouncing the planned expansion".
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wombatwoody
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Re: Zionism
Reply #298 - Feb 17th, 2023 at 12:50pm
 
Frank wrote on Feb 8th, 2023 at 7:44pm:
Well, they are not a nation like, say, the Kurds, that's why they didn't. They discovered (that is, invented) their nationhood like the Aborigines, post hoc and for political reasons.


IOW, self-determination, which according to the UN, they had every right to. Just like all the other peoples mentioned above.

Quote:
About 1-2% of the Pallos are Christian so they are certainly not setting the tone of eternal bloody jihad.


Like I said, it's about Palestinian self-determination, not Islam per se.

The Palestinians did nothing wrong. They were living there peacefully for generation after generation after generation. All the while doing so, it should not be forgotten, allowing Jews in Jerusalem to live peacefully there and practice their 'religion' unhindered.

Quote:
Said was a political hypocrite and an Egyptian libpving in America. His Orientalism is influential po-mo bollocks.  I do appreciate his musical writing and musical cooperation with Barenboim.


He was born in Palestine in 1935. And while I haven't read that one, here's what The Guardian says:

Orientalism (1978), is credited with helping to change the direction of several disciplines by exposing an unholy alliance between the enlightenment and colonialism.

And on his life and work as a whole:

Said's influence, however, was far from being confined to the worlds of academic and scholarly discourse. An intellectual superstar in America, he distinguished himself as an opera critic, pianist, television celebrity, politician, media expert, popular essayist and public lecturer.

"The question to be asked," he wrote in the Politics Of Dispossession (1994), "is how long can the history of anti-semitism and the Holocaust be used as a fence to exempt Israel from arguments and sanctions against it for its behaviour towards the Palestinians, arguments and sanctions that were used against other repressive governments, such as South Africa? How long are we going to deny that the cries of the people of Gaza... are directly connected to the policies of the Israeli government and not to the cries of the victims of Nazism?"


But I have read his The Question of Palestine, a notable work promoting peace and understanding.

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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

Benjamin Netanyahu, quoted in Ma’ariv, 16 April 2008
 
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wombatwoody
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Re: Zionism
Reply #299 - Feb 17th, 2023 at 12:52pm
 
freediver wrote on Feb 12th, 2023 at 9:17am:
I am still waiting for you to back up your original claim.


Where else does it say that?
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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

Benjamin Netanyahu, quoted in Ma’ariv, 16 April 2008
 
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