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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 13057 Gender:	Re: Zionism Reply #555 - Apr 27^th, 2023 at 10:45am freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2023 at 6:50am: Quote: The Brits reneged on L of A's promises to the Arabs. And you think that is why the Muslims hate Jews? No, they hate them for carving Israel out of Palestine.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49280 At my desk.	Re: Zionism Reply #556 - Apr 27^th, 2023 at 5:49pm thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 27^th, 2023 at 10:45am: freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2023 at 6:50am: Quote: The Brits reneged on L of A's promises to the Arabs. And you think that is why the Muslims hate Jews? No, they hate them for carving Israel out of Palestine. So they had no issues with Jews prior to that?
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Bobby.

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Re: Zionism
Reply #557 - Apr 27^th, 2023 at 8:35pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 25^th, 2023 at 6:30pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2023 at 6:22pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 25^th, 2023 at 6:02pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2023 at 6:00pm:

I don't think you understood the question Bobby. Let's try again.

If someone offered you a one way ticket to some shithole country on the other side of the world, and told you that is the only place people of your ethnicity would be allowed to live in peace, would you be happy about it?

I'd very happy to be able to live in peace forever.

You are too old to believe in fairy tales Bobby.

I was just recounting some important history that the young ones may not have known.
How many know about Lawrence of Arabia's broken promise or Madagascar?

If history could be re-written -
who would have best looked after the holy country of Israel? -
as I don't consider anyone owns Israel - they preserve it for the world -
referring to the great number of the most holy sites in the world -

the Jews?
the Arabs?
the British?
some other entity - maybe the UN?

FD,
Unanswered questions.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49280 At my desk.	Re: Zionism Reply #558 - Apr 27^th, 2023 at 8:40pm I doubt it would be as open to Jews, Christians and Muslims if the Muslims were running the show. And the UN couldn't wait to be rid of it. Not that I think they owe "the world" anything.
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Bobby.

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Re: Zionism
Reply #559 - Apr 27^th, 2023 at 8:51pm

freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2023 at 8:40pm:

I doubt it would be as open to Jews, Christians and Muslims if the Muslims were running the show. And the UN couldn't wait to be rid of it.

Not that I think they owe "the world" anything.

I think you're right.
However it's not that safe for anyone to visit these days.

Also -
did you know about Lawrence of Arabia's broken promise or the offer of Madagascar?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Zionism
Reply #560 - Apr 27^th, 2023 at 11:11pm

freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2023 at 5:49pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 27^th, 2023 at 10:45am:

freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2023 at 6:50am:

Quote:

The Brits reneged on L of A's promises to the Arabs.

And you think that is why the Muslims hate Jews?

No, they hate them for carving Israel out of Palestine.

So they had no issues with Jews prior to that?

Well, the Koran has some problems with Jews as well; but when Jews (and others) decided (on the back of a Western invented institution, the UN - one of the West's finer but incomplete creations), to carve Israel out of Palestine, that was the straw which 'broke the camel's back'.

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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 13057 Gender:	Re: Zionism Reply #561 - Apr 27^th, 2023 at 11:15pm Bobby. wrote on Apr 27^th, 2023 at 8:51pm: However it's not that safe for anyone to visit these days. That's what happens when ideologues on all sides refuse to accept international law, and mediation by the UN.
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freediver

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Re: Zionism
Reply #562 - Apr 28^th, 2023 at 5:59am

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 27^th, 2023 at 11:11pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2023 at 5:49pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 27^th, 2023 at 10:45am:

freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2023 at 6:50am:

Quote:

The Brits reneged on L of A's promises to the Arabs.

And you think that is why the Muslims hate Jews?

No, they hate them for carving Israel out of Palestine.

So they had no issues with Jews prior to that?

Well, the Koran has some problems with Jews as well; but when Jews (and others) decided (on the back of a Western invented institution, the UN - one of the West's finer but incomplete creations), to carve Israel out of Palestine, that was the straw which 'broke the camel's back'.

Why do you think it upset them so much?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Zionism
Reply #563 - Apr 28^th, 2023 at 10:34am

freediver wrote on Apr 28^th, 2023 at 5:59am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 27^th, 2023 at 11:11pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2023 at 5:49pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 27^th, 2023 at 10:45am:

freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2023 at 6:50am:

Quote:

The Brits reneged on L of A's promises to the Arabs.

And you think that is why the Muslims hate Jews?

No, they hate them for carving Israel out of Palestine.

So they had no issues with Jews prior to that?

Well, the Koran has some problems with Jews as well; but when Jews (and others) decided (on the back of a Western invented institution, the UN - one of the West's finer but incomplete creations), to carve Israel out of Palestine, that was the straw which 'broke the camel's back'.

Why do you think it upset them so much?

The same reason Zelensky is overseeing the destruction of his country, to hang onto Crimea and Russian- speaking Donbass...

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freediver

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Re: Zionism
Reply #564 - Apr 28^th, 2023 at 5:45pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 28^th, 2023 at 10:34am:

freediver wrote on Apr 28^th, 2023 at 5:59am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 27^th, 2023 at 11:11pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2023 at 5:49pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 27^th, 2023 at 10:45am:

freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2023 at 6:50am:

Quote:

The Brits reneged on L of A's promises to the Arabs.

And you think that is why the Muslims hate Jews?

No, they hate them for carving Israel out of Palestine.

So they had no issues with Jews prior to that?

Well, the Koran has some problems with Jews as well; but when Jews (and others) decided (on the back of a Western invented institution, the UN - one of the West's finer but incomplete creations), to carve Israel out of Palestine, that was the straw which 'broke the camel's back'.

Why do you think it upset them so much?

The same reason Zelensky is overseeing the destruction of his country, to hang onto Crimea and Russian- speaking Donbass...

Sorry, I am unfamiliar with that Chinese proverb.

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Bobby.

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Re: Zionism
Reply #565 - Apr 28^th, 2023 at 5:52pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 27^th, 2023 at 11:15pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 27^th, 2023 at 8:51pm:

However it's not that safe for anyone to visit these days.

That's what happens when ideologues on all sides refuse to accept international law, and mediation by the UN.

I repeat - the holy sites do not belong to Israel -
they belong to the whole world.

Maybe the United Nations should take control of all the Holy sites
so that at least it might be safe for tourists to go to Israel and visit them.
Only a few weeks ago there was a huge dangerous incident at the Al-Aqsa Mosque.

1,702,609 views Apr 6, 2023 #Palestine #Israel #InsiderNews

Israeli police raided Jerusalem's Al-Aqsa Mosque with stun grenades and rubber bullets during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.

Also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Aqsa_Mosque

On 15 April 2022, Israeli forces entered the Temple Mount and used tear gas shells and sound bombs to disperse Palestinians who, they said, were throwing stones at policemen. Some Palestinians barricaded themselves inside the Al-Aqsa mosque, where they were detained by Israeli police. Over 150 people ended up injured and 400 arrested.

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wombatwoody

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Re: Zionism
Reply #566 - Apr 29^th, 2023 at 3:09pm

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2023 at 11:12am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 25^th, 2023 at 10:58am:

freediver wrote on Apr 24^th, 2023 at 9:36pm:

Well what?

"the massacre of more than 110 men, women and children by members of Irgun and Stern Gang Zionist militias in the village of Deir Yassin on the western outskirts of Jerusalem on April 9, 1948 is simply Islamic propaganda?"

The propaganda they spun from it was.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre

Quote:

The massacre became a pivotal event in the Arab–Israeli conflict for its demographic and military consequences. The narrative was embellished and used by various parties to attack each other—by the Palestinians against Israel; by the Haganah to play down their own role in the affair; and by the Israeli left to accuse the Irgun and Lehi of blackening Israel's name by violating the Jewish principle of purity of arms.[11]

News of the killings sparked terror among Palestinians across the country, frightening them to flee their homes in the face of Jewish troop advances and it strengthened the resolve of Arab governments to intervene, which they did five weeks later.[4] Four days after the Deir Yassin massacre, on April 13, a revenge attack on the Hadassah medical convoy in Jerusalem ended in a massacre killing 78 Jews, most of whom were the medical staff.

'(W)hen it comes to the dispossession by Israel of the Palestinians in 1948, there is a deep chasm between the reality and the representation. This is most bewildering, and it is difficult to understand how events perpetrated in modern times and witnessed by foreign reporters and UN observers could be systematically denied, not even recognized as historical fact, let alone acknowledged as a crime that needs to be confronted, politically as well as morally. Nonetheless, there is no doubt that the ethnic cleansing of 1948, the most formative event in the modern history of the land of Palestine, has been almost entirely eradicated from the collective global memory and erased from the world’s conscience.'

Prof. Ilan Pappe

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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

Benjamin Netanyahu, quoted in Ma’ariv, 16 April 2008

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Zionism
Reply #567 - Apr 29^th, 2023 at 4:06pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 28^th, 2023 at 5:52pm:

I repeat - the holy sites do not belong to Israel -
they belong to the whole world.

Maybe the United Nations should take control of all the Holy sites
so that at least it might be safe for tourists to go to Israel and visit them.

Indeed.

That's in fact what UN res 181 proposes.

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-185393/

"City of Jerusalem

A. SPECIAL REGIME

The City of Jerusalem shall be established as a 'corpus separatum' under a special international regime and shall be administered by the United Nations. The Trusteeship Council shall be designated to discharge the responsibilities of the Administering Authority on behalf of the United Nations.

..and preceding (in Chapter 1):

Chapter 1

Holy Places, religious buildings and sites

1.Existing rights in respect of Holy Places and religious buildings or sites shall not be denied or impaired.

etc.

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« Last Edit: Apr 29^th, 2023 at 4:11pm by thegreatdivide »

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freediver

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Re: Zionism
Reply #568 - Apr 29^th, 2023 at 5:48pm

wombatwoody wrote on Apr 29^th, 2023 at 3:09pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2023 at 11:12am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 25^th, 2023 at 10:58am:

freediver wrote on Apr 24^th, 2023 at 9:36pm:

Well what?

"the massacre of more than 110 men, women and children by members of Irgun and Stern Gang Zionist militias in the village of Deir Yassin on the western outskirts of Jerusalem on April 9, 1948 is simply Islamic propaganda?"

The propaganda they spun from it was.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre

Quote:

The massacre became a pivotal event in the Arab–Israeli conflict for its demographic and military consequences. The narrative was embellished and used by various parties to attack each other—by the Palestinians against Israel; by the Haganah to play down their own role in the affair; and by the Israeli left to accuse the Irgun and Lehi of blackening Israel's name by violating the Jewish principle of purity of arms.[11]

News of the killings sparked terror among Palestinians across the country, frightening them to flee their homes in the face of Jewish troop advances and it strengthened the resolve of Arab governments to intervene, which they did five weeks later.[4] Four days after the Deir Yassin massacre, on April 13, a revenge attack on the Hadassah medical convoy in Jerusalem ended in a massacre killing 78 Jews, most of whom were the medical staff.

'(W)hen it comes to the dispossession by Israel of the Palestinians in 1948, there is a deep chasm between the reality and the representation. This is most bewildering, and it is difficult to understand how events perpetrated in modern times and witnessed by foreign reporters and UN observers could be systematically denied, not even recognized as historical fact, let alone acknowledged as a crime that needs to be confronted, politically as well as morally. Nonetheless, there is no doubt that the ethnic cleansing of 1948, the most formative event in the modern history of the land of Palestine, has been almost entirely eradicated from the collective global memory and erased from the world’s conscience.'

Prof. Ilan Pappe

So why are you covering it up?

Or are you suggesting that the creation of a Jewish state is itself a crime against humanity?

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Bobby.

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Re: Zionism
Reply #569 - Apr 29^th, 2023 at 6:00pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 29^th, 2023 at 4:06pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 28^th, 2023 at 5:52pm:

I repeat - the holy sites do not belong to Israel -
they belong to the whole world.

Maybe the United Nations should take control of all the Holy sites
so that at least it might be safe for tourists to go to Israel and visit them.

Indeed.

That's in fact what UN res 181 proposes.

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-185393/

"City of Jerusalem

A. SPECIAL REGIME

The City of Jerusalem shall be established as a 'corpus separatum' under a special international regime and shall be administered by the United Nations. The Trusteeship Council shall be designated to discharge the responsibilities of the Administering Authority on behalf of the United Nations.

..and preceding (in Chapter 1):

Chapter 1

Holy Places, religious buildings and sites

1.Existing rights in respect of Holy Places and religious buildings or sites shall not be denied or impaired.

etc.

Then why is access to the holy sites in such chaos and so dangerous?

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